Contador vs. Armstrong: bad for cycling?

Chips Lovell

I was just reading Lance Armstrong's latest attempt to keep his rivalry with Alberto Contador heated up over the winter and I've begun to wonder if, despite making for high drama in July, the duel isn't such a good thing.

Why? Well Contador is likely to pour all is energy into making sure he doesn't slip up in the Tour. That might be to the detriment of other races. Before this came along I thought he had the potential to be one of the great riders who could compete year round and have multiple targets in one year, the kind of rider we haven't seen since Lemond or Hinault. He's already proven he can win two grand tours in one year and had been talking about trying the hilly classics. He struck me as a guy who isn't afraid to lose now and again. But this Armstrong thing might change things.

Lumen

Why would he spend the rest of his career trying to precisely emulate Armstrong's legacy?

That seems like a recipe for failure. And taunting.

Chips Lovell

Lumen wrote: »

Why would he spend the rest of his career trying to precisely emulate Armstrong's legacy?

That seems like a recipe for failure. And taunting.

Exactly. This is a guy who's got it in him to do a Giro/Tour double or win races like LBL or Lombardy in the same year he wins the Tour. Armstrong never did that, but fear of losing to him might make him never try.

alfalad

el tonto wrote: »

Exactly. This is a guy who's got it in him to do a Giro/Tour double or win races like LBL or Lombardy in the same year he wins the Tour. Armstrong never did that, but fear of losing to him might make him never try.

Do you thing there is a genuine chance that he would lose to him? Assuming that things during the tour, like bonking etc don't happen then surely it should be his for the taking if he has the support of his team. Would have thought the Frank and Andy would be more of a issue?
In your opinion is Armstrongs team stronger or weaker than last year?

Chips Lovell

alfalad wrote: »

Do you thing there is a genuine chance that he would lose to him? Assuming that things during the tour, like bonking etc don't happen then surely it should be his for the taking if he has the support of his team. Would have thought the Frank and Andy would be more of a issue?

I don't think he'd lose, but I think he'd leave nothing to chance and that might mean being less adventurous.

alfalad wrote: »

In your opinion is Armstrongs team stronger or weaker than last year?

Armstrong has poached most of last year's team, so it's no weaker. He does have the stronger team, but it probably won't win it for him.

ROK ON

I think it will become a side issue in that neither rider will challenge fop top spot in any of the major tours.
Conti has a woeful team and will be under serious pressure in the Benelux stages of tdf. I think Saxo will try to slate him here to allow the Schlecks go for it in the mountains.

Despite the curse of the rainbow jersey it could be the bit of confidence that Evans needed. As for the Shack. Lots of seasoned riders with serious race miles but they are an old team.

That is my "expert" tuppence worth.


Seriously sport needs protagonists and these guys provide that drama.

Chips Lovell

ROK ON wrote: »

...Conti has a woeful team...

De La Fuente, Gasparotto, Noval, Vino and Pereiro are by no means a woeful team. Admittedly the last two are up in the air a bit.

ROK ON

There are problems with Pereiros contract. He may not legally be signed by Astanaa. They can't agree on wages.
The team is a dysfunctional disaster waiting to happen. The organisation given any available opportunity will fubar everything.

I would have more respect for Conti if he broke contract and simply weed away from them.
Good riser but badly advised.

However your initial arguments are persuasive but hopefully don't ttanspire to be true. Still Conti has time to play the long game LA doesntm
Conti should concentrate on winning not beating LA. Focus on the positive not the bitter.

sy

el tonto wrote: »

I was just reading Lance Armstrong's latest attempt to keep his rivalry with Alberto Contador heated up over the winter and I've begun to wonder if, despite making for high drama in July, the duel isn't such a good thing.

Why? Well Contador is likely to pour all is energy into making sure he doesn't slip up in the Tour. That might be to the detriment of other races. .....

Interesting point tonto and I totally agree with you however I think another major factor is the TDF itself. Personally I think it has become such a focal point that it actually detracts from the rest of the calendar.( no smart comments on W200 analogy please!) The classics are not taken as seriously by the big teams(apart from Quick Step and a few others) preferring instead a stage win in the TDF or maybe a few days in Yellow. The mass coverage of the race all over the world plus the Lance media machine has played a big role in this. Of course it is a great spectacle but then so too is the Giro or Paris Roubaix. Unfortunately a lot of sports are heading down this road.

I think the great cyclists of their generation have to aim to win two grand tours and a classic or a worlds in the same season. Not since Indurain, LeMond and Hinault, as you mentioned previously, have we seen this. Yes Bertie has the potential to do it(winning the Giro and Vuelta in the same season proved this) but in today's world of cycling it is all about winning the TDF.

I think Lance regrets not having a go at winning a few different races in tha same season.

alfalad

el tonto wrote: »

I don't think he'd lose, but I think he'd leave nothing to chance and that might mean being less adventurous.




Armstrong has poached most of last year's team, so it's no weaker. He does have the stronger team, but it probably won't win it for him.

Good points alright, its a shame though that a personal battle will stop him getting more big wins!

alfalad

sy wrote: »

Interesting point tonto and I totally agree with you however I think another major factor is the TDF itself. Personally I think it has become such a focal point that it actually detracts from the rest of the calendar.( no smart comments on W200 analogy please!) The classics are not taken as seriously by the big teams(apart from Quick Step and a few others) preferring instead a stage win in the TDF or maybe a few days in Yellow. The mass coverage of the race all over the world plus the Lance media machine has played a big role in this. Of course it is a great spectacle but then so too is the Giro or Paris Roubaix. Unfortunately a lot of sports are heading down this road.

I think the great cyclists of their generation have to aim to win two grand tours and a classic or a worlds in the same season. Not since Indurain, LeMond and Hinault, as you mentioned previously, have we seen this. Yes Bertie has the potential to do it(winning the Giro and Vuelta in the same season proved this) but in today's world of cycling it is all about winning the TDF.

I think Lance regrets not having a go at winning a few different races in tha same season.

I think in a way Lance is to blame for this as the media machine seems to just follow him and if he is only serious about one race then the mass media only follow that. If he were to compete in half a dozen of the bigger events they would get far more coverage and would be shown on TG4 etc so it would be more accessable to people!

ednwireland

el tonto wrote: »

I was just reading Lance Armstrong's latest attempt to keep his rivalry with Alberto Contador heated up over the winter and I've begun to wonder if, despite making for high drama in July, the duel isn't such a good thing.

Why? Well Contador is likely to pour all is energy into making sure he doesn't slip up in the Tour. That might be to the detriment of other races. Before this came along I thought he had the potential to be one of the great riders who could compete year round and have multiple targets in one year, the kind of rider we haven't seen since Lemond or Hinault. He's already proven he can win two grand tours in one year and had been talking about trying the hilly classics. He struck me as a guy who isn't afraid to lose now and again. But this Armstrong thing might change things.

i personally think that they should let their riding do the talking, unfortunately, in this day and age (of blogs and twitters) we get all this inane drivel (that mainly lance is spouting)
lance knows he cant beat contador in a fair fight (all things been equal illness, injury etc.) so he has to do soemthing else to destabilise him or his team.
personally they should STFU and we'll see who does what in races next year

rant over, i really am sick of this argument, i'll wait till the season starts

lukester

I'm hoping Contador being on his own team will free him up enough to put serious time into Armstrong at the earliest possible opportunity. Contador beat Armstrong by over 5 minutes last year- granted Armstrong's preparation was hampered by his collarbone injury. And last year they were both being quite cagey regarding 'leadership' early on, with Contador keeping his powder dry till Verbier.

Ideally he'll beat Armstrong by enough of a margin to render his brattish media antics irrelevant for future seasons.

alfalad

lukester wrote: »

Contador beat Armstrong by over 5 minutes last year- granted Armstrong's preparation was hampered by his collarbone injury. And last year they were both being quite cagey regarding 'leadership' early on, with Contador keeping his powder dry till Verbier.

Ideally he'll beat Armstrong by enough of a margin to render his brattish media antics irrelevant for future seasons.

Armstrong had also jumped on a break early in the tour which gave him a bit of time on bertie if i remember correctly!

Ryder

All of this is probably bad for contador but good for cycling. Its brought a lot of the masses into the sport which should reflect well for sponsorship.

Bikerbhoy

el tonto wrote: »

I was just reading Lance Armstrong's latest attempt to keep his rivalry with Alberto Contador heated up over the winter and I've begun to wonder if, despite making for high drama in July, the duel isn't such a good thing.

.

Ok...... so what do we reckon Alberto was saying to Lance in the photo attached to the above article ???

Mr. Presentable

Bikerbhoy wrote: »

Ok...... so what do we reckon Alberto was saying to Lance in the photo attached to the above article ???

"The pharmacy is thataway"?

Diarmuid

Ryder wrote: »

All of this is probably bad for contador but good for cycling. Its brought a lot of the masses into the sport which should reflect well for sponsorship.

not so sure. Cycling has repeatedly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in that aspect time and time again. Cycling in Ireland should have been huge after Roche and Kelly but it's probably below hockey in popularity at this stage!

petethedrummer

Not wishing to drag this in to a doping debate (nipplenuts mentioned pharmacy first), but if Pat has his way then Lance might just win the thing next year: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-wants-complete-control-over-tour-testing :rolleyes: