Begg on Vincent Browne right now

dfbemt

Lies, more lies and damn lies.

It's a complete fudge

dfbemt

Members of ICTU fighting amongst themselves.

Looks like we have no deal

dfbemt

Begg explains that we will get this unpaid leave back at the end of 2010 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are we having the wool pulled over our eyes?

dfbemt

VB has nice new haircut, altarboyish even.

Sympathy after last nights show !!!

Smcgie

you really need a reply so hello i am watch VB.

Darragh29

"70% of the private sector have not had to take a paycut"... Very good Watson, where are they??? ON DA DOLE SHERLOCK!!!

dfbemt

Catfight..

Begg is a bit touchy tonight

Darragh29

Who is this teacher, he is from the Frank Spencer Academy of Economics...

Ya know what is going to be so so funny... This day next week when the unions hear they are all taking pay cuts but they called off their strike tomorrow thinking that they had it in the bag!!!!!

DrumSteve

ah poor fionnan out on his own there tonight. To be fair begg can spin this any way he wants but he just does not seem to grasp that the country is screwed. Its quite depressing tbh.

dfbemt

Just as well they got the ad break in.

I wonder will Begg review the Indo tonight?!

dfbemt

Interesting headlines.

We are closer to street riots than ever before, or worse again, even a general election

dresden8

Darragh29 wrote: »

"70% of the private sector have not had to take a paycut"... Very good Watson, where are they??? ON DA DOLE SHERLOCK!!!

70% of the private sector are on the dole?

Source please.

dresden8

Darragh29 wrote: »

Ya know what is going to be so so funny... This day next week when the unions hear they are all taking pay cuts but they called off their strike tomorrow thinking that they had it in the bag!!!!!

Don't worry, we already figured that out yesterday evening.

dfbemt

Is the bearded one sulking ?

dresden8

DrumSteve wrote: »

ah poor fionnan out on his own there tonight. .

I'm sure he can look forward to a lucrative career as government press secretary sometime in the future for all his good work on behalf of Fianna Fail and IBEC.

It must be a small comfort.

Darragh29

dresden8 wrote: »

70% of the private sector are on the dole?

Source please.

To say that 70% of the workforce have not had to take a pay cut when 423,000 of people who used to be part of that workforce until they recently lost their jobs, is an absolute outrage.

If you take the number of people who have taken pay cuts, who are on short working weeks AND those who have lost their jobs, you'll get your 70% or close enough to it.

Unfortunately those in the public sector are living in a parallel universe so there is no point in me saying how hard those in the private sector have it....

dresden8

Darragh29 wrote: »

To say that 70% of the workforce have not had to take a pay cut when 423,000 of people who used to be part of that workforce until they recently lost their jobs, is an absolute outrage.

If you take the number of people who have taken pay cuts, who are on short working weeks AND those who have lost their jobs, you'll get your 70% or close enough to it.

Unfortunately those in the public sector are living in a parallel universe so there is no point in me saying how hard those in the private sector have it....

I don't believe you.

Numbers and sources please.

bcirl03

dresden8 wrote: »

I don't believe you.

Numbers and sources please.

How's life in the public sector dresden8?

K-9

Darragh29 wrote: »

To say that 70% of the workforce have not had to take a pay cut when 423,000 of people who used to be part of that workforce until they recently lost their jobs, is an absolute outrage.

If you take the number of people who have taken pay cuts, who are on short working weeks AND those who have lost their jobs, you'll get your 70% or close enough to it.

Unfortunately those in the public sector are living in a parallel universe so there is no point in me saying how hard those in the private sector have it....

Yep, wage costs are coming down in the Private Sector due to the other 30% taking pay and hour cuts, redundancies and increasing productivity.

So, if the public servants want no pay cuts, that's how you do it.

Just hurry up and decide who loses their job.

dresden8

bcirl03 wrote: »

How's life in the public sector dresden8?

Morale is through the floor.

We're up to our tits in work and we're sick of being the scapegoats for the banks and FF.

We're fncking pissed off we've take a paycut while banks have gotten a payrise.

We're pissed off that FF is claiming the civil service is overstaffed and paid too much while ministers bring in their constituency hangers on to photo-copy at relatively senior levels while slagging the rest of us off.

We're pissed off that the unions are being taken for saps by FF and making us all look thick as fnck.

Apart from that everything is rosy, especially the shopping in Newry, and more especially since we have the monopoly on it. (Allegedly)

Thanks for asking.

Anyway back to the original question

Numbers and sources please.

Darragh29

dresden8 wrote: »

I don't believe you.

Numbers and sources please.

You keep on entrenching yourself and carrying on like an Ulster Unionist, acting in an intransigent mannerm ignoring the reality around you, asking for something on an offical looking bit of paper before you will discuss something.

How you can insult people who are unemployed and living on 204 Euro a week by just disregarding the ULTIMATE pay cut that those people have had to take, while turning your nose up in the air at me while asking for official statistics and sources for what the rest of us know is the fu*king bleeding obvious, is a disgrace. You ought to hang your head in shame, then and again, I know you are living on some parallel universe than the rest of us. You live in a world where change is obstructed and used as a bargaining tool for more money, then when you get the money, you still don't deliver the goods...

K-9

dresden8 wrote: »

Morale is through the floor.

We're up to our tits in work and we're sick of being the scapegoats for the banks and FF.

We're fncking pissed off we've take a paycut while banks have gotten a payrise.

We're pissed off that FF is claiming the civil service is overstaffed and paid too much while ministers bring in their constituency hangers on to photo-copy at relatively senior levels while slagging the rest of us off.

We're pissed off that the unions are being taken for saps by FF and making us all look thick as fnck.

Apart from that everything is rosy, especially the shopping in Newry, and more especially since we have the monopoly on it. (Allegedly)

Thanks for asking.

Anyway back to the original question

Much like the private sector then.

dresden8

Darragh29 wrote: »

You keep on entrenching yourself and carrying on like an Ulster Unionist, acting in an intransigent mannerm ignoring the reality around you, asking for something on an offical looking bit of paper before you will discuss something.

How you can insult people who are unemployed and living on 204 Euro a week by just disregarding the ULTIMATE pay cut that those people have had to take, while turning your nose up in the air at me while asking for official statistics and sources for what the rest of us know is the fu*king bleeding obvious, is a disgrace. You ought to hang your head in shame, then and again, I know you are living on some parallel universe than the rest of us. You live in a world where change is obstructed and used as a bargaining tool for more money, then when you get the money, you still don't deliver the goods...

So, that's a no on the numbers and sources then.

dresden8

K-9 wrote: »

Much like the private sector then.

Yes apart from the fact that all the public sector have taken a paycut while all the private sector haven't.

Darragh29

dresden8 wrote: »

So, that's a no on the numbers and sources then.

You make me sick. Do you not have any people in your circle of friends of family who have lost jobs??? How can you be so indifferent to the hardship that many people are suffering??? Do you only accept they are unemployed if they take out their benefit book and let you examine it???

sdanseo

Darragh29 wrote: »

To say that 70% of the workforce have not had to take a pay cut when 423,000 of people who used to be part of that workforce until they recently lost their jobs, is an absolute outrage.

If you take the number of people who have taken pay cuts, who are on short working weeks AND those who have lost their jobs, you'll get your 70% or close enough to it.

Unfortunately those in the public sector are living in a parallel universe so there is no point in me saying how hard those in the private sector have it....

More like 200,000. The live register wasn't exactly a blank sheet of paper before the recession began, it had plenty of leeches and genuinely unemployed even in the good times.

dresden8

Darragh29 wrote: »

Do you not have any people in your circle of friends of family who have lost jobs???

Yes

Darragh29 wrote: »

How can you be so indifferent to the hardship that many people are suffering???

I'm not.

Darragh29 wrote: »

Do you only accept they are unemployed if they take out their benefit book and let you examine it???

No.

Now, numbers and sources please. Or else feel free to retract.

Scofflaw

dresden8 wrote: »

Morale is through the floor.

We're up to our tits in work and we're sick of being the scapegoats for the banks and FF.

We're fncking pissed off we've take a paycut while banks have gotten a payrise.

We're pissed off that FF is claiming the civil service is overstaffed and paid too much while ministers bring in their constituency hangers on to photo-copy at relatively senior levels while slagging the rest of us off.

We're pissed off that the unions are being taken for saps by FF and making us all look thick as fnck.

Apart from that everything is rosy, especially the shopping in Newry, and more especially since we have the monopoly on it. (Allegedly)

Thanks for asking.

Anyway back to the original question

And back to your ban again, too. This time permanently. Lodge an appeal in the usual place.

moderately annoyed,
Scofflaw

TCP/IP_King

Darragh29 wrote: »

You make me sick. Do you not have any people in your circle of friends of family who have lost jobs??? How can you be so indifferent to the hardship that many people are suffering??? Do you only accept they are unemployed if they take out their benefit book and let you examine it???

Before you turn your IBEC invective on me, I'm private sector, self employed in Irelands "economy" (God help her).

I regularly meet with eight long term friends, two of whom are in public sector jobs. These are the only ones of the circle who have had a paycut.

The two financial guys are still looking good for the Christmas bonus. the builder has retired and lives off the rent, myself and the others are hanging on by one finger to the only government contract with any money left.

So out of eight, 75% of my circle have not taken an (enforced) paycut.

Use your vote wisely next time.

philboy

dresden8 wrote: »

Morale is through the floor.

We're up to our tits in work and we're sick of being the scapegoats for the banks and FF.

We're fncking pissed off we've take a paycut while banks have gotten a payrise.

We're pissed off that FF is claiming the civil service is overstaffed and paid too much while ministers bring in their constituency hangers on to photo-copy at relatively senior levels while slagging the rest of us off.

We're pissed off that the unions are being taken for saps by FF and making us all look thick as fnck.

Apart from that everything is rosy, especially the shopping in Newry, and more especially since we have the monopoly on it. (Allegedly)

Thanks for asking.

Anyway back to the original question

Why don't you hand in your notice then & leave if your not happy with the workload, conditions & pay?

Esel

I missed tonight's program. Thanks, OP, for the blow-by-blow blog. I usually find Begg to be very lucid, btw..

TCP/IP_King

philboy wrote: »

Why don't you hand in your notice then & leave if your not happy with the workload, conditions & pay?

It's the cross border shopping opportunities keeps him/her there !!

Darragh29

TCP/IP_King wrote: »

Before you turn your IBEC invective on me, I'm private sector, self employed in Irelands "economy" (God help her).

I regularly meet with eight long term friends, two of whom are in public sector jobs. These are the only ones of the circle who have had a paycut.

The two financial guys are still looking good for the Christmas bonus. the builder has retired and lives off the rent, myself and the others are hanging on by one finger to the only government contract with any money left.

So out of eight, 75% of my circle have not taken an (enforced) paycut.

Use your vote wisely next time.

Well I'm self employed also, like yourself I've close friends, mine are also self employed, every one of them have let everyone go except those that are absolutely essential to operations and those kept on are working 12 hour days minimum. I'm talking about businesses that employed 10-20 people 18 months ago, now employing 2-5 staff.

Now my mates don't want to do this, but they have no choice, the banks have cut their overdrafts and they guys just can't keep these people in jobs. These businesses were not overstaffed in the boom, people worked hard all the time, but between business revenue going off a cliff, debtors going bust and landing them with bad debts, and the banks cutting credit facilities, they are all, without exception, doubtful as to whether they will make it through next year....

It's like a perfect storm for these guys, bad debts, huge fall offs in revenue and Rottweiler banks, I know these guys probably will not get through next year, some are hugely exposed to debtors going under and the bad debts that have knocked the absolute crap out of their businesses, they have to offer credit to get the business, if they lose a customer and take a hit on a bad debt, they might get up and dust themselves off and get the business replaced by a new customer who also goes bust or is on the thin ice and you are just digging yourself into a deeper hole, what should you do then???

Honestly, the people who are refusing to take pay cuts in the public sector need to wake up and start smelling the coffee...

To be honest, we need these people to do one thing for us and that is protest against this government until it is gone. A huge part of the problem here is that the national confidence has been completely and utterly zapped. There is no leadership, I'd protest with a public sector worker if the objective was to get rid of this government. I still think we need pay cuts at the higher level, but we also need to protect the lower paid PS worker. What is needed here is surgery, not a bowl of acid thrown in the face of the whole public sector body...

K-9

dresden8 wrote: »

Yes apart from the fact that all the public sector have taken a paycut while all the private sector haven't.

For the benefit of everybody else, yes Private Sector Wages are being cut:
http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1018498.shtml

Why are people who bemoan Indo headlines on the PS, relying so much on the Indo headlines on the private sector?

STOP the benchmarking idiocy.

Either get a full acoss the board pay cut or agree on redundancies if you want to compare like with like.

Eutow

philboy wrote: »

Why don't you hand in your notice then & leave if your not happy with the workload, conditions & pay?

I will gladly take (dresden8) job and he can swap with me. Public sector workers complain that they are taking pay cuts, but were does that money come from in the first place, that's right, from the taxpayers. We can't afford to pay the public sector at current pay levels, if you don't like it leave.

bcirl03

dresden8 wrote: »

Morale is through the floor.

We're up to our tits in work and we're sick of being the scapegoats for the banks and FF.

We're fncking pissed off we've take a paycut while banks have gotten a payrise.

We're pissed off that FF is claiming the civil service is overstaffed and paid too much while ministers bring in their constituency hangers on to photo-copy at relatively senior levels while slagging the rest of us off.

We're pissed off that the unions are being taken for saps by FF and making us all look thick as fnck.

Apart from that everything is rosy, especially the shopping in Newry, and more especially since we have the monopoly on it. (Allegedly)

Thanks for asking.

Anyway back to the original question

"And that was a party political broadcast from the job for lifers party" - typical attitude of the public service, no wonder your not winning any friends during these testing times.

irish_bob

Darragh29 wrote: »

To say that 70% of the workforce have not had to take a pay cut when 423,000 of people who used to be part of that workforce until they recently lost their jobs, is an absolute outrage.

If you take the number of people who have taken pay cuts, who are on short working weeks AND those who have lost their jobs, you'll get your 70% or close enough to it.

Unfortunately those in the public sector are living in a parallel universe so there is no point in me saying how hard those in the private sector have it....

another fact that is rarely mentioned is that a significant percentage of the private sector work for minimum wage , it is illegal for theese workers to have wage cuts imposed on them

irish_bob

dresden8 wrote: »

Yes apart from the fact that all the public sector have taken a paycut while all the private sector haven't.

so you wish to see those on minimum wage face pay cuts then , for the purpose of universality in the workforce regarding pay cuts

NOGMaxpower

irish_bob wrote: »

so you wish to see those on minimum wage face pay cuts then , for the purpose of universality in the workforce regarding pay cuts

ps , bad luck on the permanent ban , harsh

IMO they deserved the ban, pure ignorance on their part and a total unacceptance of other peoples point of views.

K-9

irish_bob wrote: »

so you wish to see those on minimum wage face pay cuts then , for the purpose of universality in the workforce regarding pay cuts

ps , bad luck on the permanent ban , harsh

This "70% haven't taken a pay cut" is becoming the Private Sector equivalent of "they are all on 60k".

The "all of us have taken a cut, not all the Private Sector" is just a way of diverting attention away from the PS, because the alternative is redundancies, which is a non runner.

conorhal

dresden8 wrote: »

I don't believe you.

Numbers and sources please.

dresden, now you're just being willfully facetious.
Many people, (and very, very few of them from public sector) are now unemployed and thus taking a 100% pay cut and all of that nonsense about 70% of the private sector not taking a cut just deliberately obfuscates a simple truth. It doesn't matter how many people in the private sector took a pay cut (or got a pay raise for that matter) because such things are implemented on the basis of your employers financial health.

Face it, if you work in the public sector, you're employer is broke, out the back door and over the fence, whistling for pennies. In such circumstances corrective action has to be taken, and screwing private sector workers to the wall for a bail out is not the corrective action necessary, it's addressing the long term structural problems with the way the public sector spends and functions.
In private sector terms, it's time for some cost cutting and re-structuring, because if my employer was in the state yours is, I guarantee you that redundancies and lay offs would be on the cards and nobody in the rest of the private sector (nor the public) would be expected to bail out my financially irresponsible employer or suggest that we all collectively pay more into a social fund so that I can keep my job or current salary level.

It's time to get real. You were happy to be benchmarked on the way up, you should do the same on the way down

murphaph

dresden8 wrote: »

I don't believe you.

Numbers and sources please.

Where did all the tax revenue (20bn+ a year missing) go to if the private sector is not in a state of collapse?

murphaph

dresden8 wrote: »

Morale is through the floor.

We're up to our tits in work and we're sick of being the scapegoats for the banks and FF.

We're fncking pissed off we've take a paycut while banks have gotten a payrise.

We're pissed off that FF is claiming the civil service is overstaffed and paid too much while ministers bring in their constituency hangers on to photo-copy at relatively senior levels while slagging the rest of us off.

We're pissed off that the unions are being taken for saps by FF and making us all look thick as fnck.

Apart from that everything is rosy, especially the shopping in Newry, and more especially since we have the monopoly on it. (Allegedly)

Thanks for asking.

Anyway back to the original question

Why didn't you get your unions to address all THESE issues then, instead of just looking for more and more money for you?

You claim that "not all private sector workers have taken a pay cut so why should all public sector workers take one?" but you conveniently overlook that during the boom when ALL public servants were getting payrises, NOT ALL private sector employees were

irish_bob

dresden8 wrote: »

Morale is through the floor.

We're up to our tits in work and we're sick of being the scapegoats for the banks and FF.

We're fncking pissed off we've take a paycut while banks have gotten a payrise.

We're pissed off that FF is claiming the civil service is overstaffed and paid too much while ministers bring in their constituency hangers on to photo-copy at relatively senior levels while slagging the rest of us off.

We're pissed off that the unions are being taken for saps by FF and making us all look thick as fnck.

Apart from that everything is rosy, especially the shopping in Newry, and more especially since we have the monopoly on it. (Allegedly)

Thanks for asking.

Anyway back to the original question

watched a report on the agri show EAR TO THE GROUND this evening about flooding in the shannon area , houses , business,s flooded , farm animals hungary and in some cases drowned , i thought they had it tough but having read the above post , it seems they are having a picnic compared to what the beleagured public sector are going through :rolleyes:

dfbemt

Mods

Can we close this thread. I think it has run its course.

As OP, I was just looking for comments on VB show last night but things have degenerated into the Public v's Private sector again.

Thanks

ps Can I get a PM as to why dresden8 got ban. His post looked inoffensive. Have I missed something? Obviously don't want to incur the same myself in the future. Thanks....