Is there an overdependance on technology?

--amadeus--

We're a kind of one stop shop and clearing house for runners and triathletes so people ask questions in here that they maybe wouldn't ask elsewhere. And because all levels of people ask about all kinds of things peole get exposed to ideas and concepts maybe earlier than they would if they mixed only with thier peer group.

So we get a huge number of people on here talking about HRMs, GPS, turbos (and all sorts of other tri exotica). It's not unusual to see peole who are still fairly new to running, frequently a year or less, looking at sophisticated equipment that would have been unavailable to elites even a few years ago.

Now I'm no one to criticise (I'm wearing a shiny new 405 as I write ) but do you think people are getting overly dependent on the gadgets? Doesn't it make sense to spend some time learning your own body before getting performance monitoring gadgets?

Or should newbies grab all the goodies they can because they need the help the most?

Woddle

I for one am way too involved in my 405, I forgot to bring it to the Paris marathon (I'm still convinced my wife took it out of the suitcase ) and from the point of when I realised this fact I was already in a negative frame of mind and we all know what happened then

donothoponpop

"Answers on a postcard, to..."

--amadeus--

donothoponpop wrote: »

"Answers on a postcard, to..."

Bit too chatshow?

OK, I didn't want to put a big firm opinion in the first post but...

I don't think that anyone running for less than a year (maybe even more) should dream of getting a HRM. I get the attraction of a GPS watch - knowing how far you have run and pace is great. But mapmyrun or Google Pedometer does the same thing for free and a basic stopwatch can be got for next to nothing. And I think that some of teh sophisticated gadgetry gets in the way. "hmmmm 220-age * 70%=my LSR pace, so off I go!" or whatever. Runners who approach training like that before they have logged a lot of training and racing miles will find it a lot harder to judge effort by themselves if the tech fails in a race setting.

And frequently people rush to things like HRMs before they understand the science behind HR training, so it gets in teh way.

Don't get me wrong - I think the tests that Woddle did are brilliant and for someone like him with a few years under his belt and looking to make a breakthrough it makes sense. Garmins are brilliant and keeping track of your HR over time allows you to track fitness improvments. All good stuff.

But you don't jump on a Ducati until you've taken the training wheels of your pushbike!

donothoponpop

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Bit too chatshow?

More about the medium you are using to convey your message.

Stupid Private said last year he didn't use Garmins, (or even timekeeping) in his training, that was enough for me to stop. Sometimes like to use the Garmin for mapping hill runs, but its better running without looking at it.

shels4ever

I use my Garmin for session and tempo runs, but other then that I dont usually wear it for races at all, last weekend I did have it on but didnt check it once. I did notice that when I did wear it while racing that I was too worried about pace and didnt race well.
I think I race a lot better when I target people to beat and race against them, the garmin just messed with that.

Woddle

I love the data you get after a race and a good session but during a race I'd never look at it and am in the habit of not looking at it. I flirted with te idea of not wearing the garmin but running without is just not the same for me, although my coach wants me to run Rotterdam without a watch :eek: and I did tell him I would do whatever he says

hunnymonster

The current primary function of my garmin is to plot all the places in the world I've run with little red dots. pathetic I know and I'll get back to HR training soon.


As a wife-to-be of an athlete, please men keep your gadget obsessions. It makes birthdays and christmas soooooooo much easier. I'm currently looking out the window at Zuppylurks 2009 christmas present. it's 24 foot long and takes up a big chunk of the back garden where the daffodils would normally be. Garmin, small box that can be giftwrapped. No contest really.

shels4ever

hunnymonster wrote: »

The current primary function of my garmin is to plot all the places in the world I've run with little red dots. pathetic I know and I'll get back to HR training soon.


As a wife-to-be of an athlete, please men keep your gadget obsessions. It makes birthdays and christmas soooooooo much easier. I'm currently looking out the window at Zuppylurks 2009 christmas present. it's 24 foot long and takes up a big chunk of the back garden where the daffodils would normally be. Garmin, small box that can be giftwrapped. No contest really.

mmmmmmmmm 24 foot long , how will you wrap that?

rainbow kirby

hunnymonster wrote: »

As a wife-to-be of an athlete, please men keep your gadget obsessions. It makes birthdays and christmas soooooooo much easier. I'm currently looking out the window at Zuppylurks 2009 christmas present. it's 24 foot long and takes up a big chunk of the back garden where the daffodils would normally be. Garmin, small box that can be giftwrapped. No contest really.

It's always a size thing with the men... :pac:

Krusty_Clown

A gps watch, a hrm, a trainer.. They're just tools.. You still have to do the work.

Tonight, I went to the local park for 12x400m intervals. It was too dark to see the watch, so the beeps told me when to start running, and when to rest up. I could have gone out with a tape measure, trundle wheel, stop-watch and a torch, but what's the point? Why dig your fingers into the earth, when you can use a shovel?

Stupid_Private

donothoponpop wrote: »

Stupid Private said last year he didn't use Garmins, (or even timekeeping) in his training

...or racing! That was taken with 100m to go in the last marathon. Bizarrely the half splits for that race were within 10 seconds of each other. Nothing to do with super pacing or anything like that, I started slow, got faster in the middle and ended slow. Just coincidence that the first and last 10k happened to be the same pace.

I use my trusty casio for interval sessions and that's it as far as technology goes with me. Everything else I listen to my body.

Krusty_Clown

Stupid_Private wrote: »

...or racing

Maybe you wouldn't look so grumpy if you had a Garmin.

Woddle

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Maybe you wouldn't look so grumpy if you had a Garmin.

I was very interested in the discussion on gels in tungunskas log so just to add that picture shows a 2'42 runner with gels.

chinguetti

I would think that all you need is a good pair of runners to start and nothing else. All the gadgets in the world won't make you go faster but you become dependent on them.

I finished a 10 kms a while back besides a fella who i got chatting to. As we talked away, he said he was new to running and started telling me what time he did etc., and then began telling me about him HRM, splits, calories lost etc. He then started to stretch and said his knees were very sore. I looked at his feet and he was wearing runners that were badly worn and had far seen better days and though i'm no expert, not suitable for running in.

Technology won't replace common sense and it might be better if everyone knew their own limits than to be a slave to machines and the figures that lie within.

thirtyfoot

Stupid_Private wrote: »

I use my trusty casio for interval sessions and that's it as far as technology goes with me. Everything else I listen to my body.

I'm with you on that one. Nice and simple. Like the best things in life and for me the best approach to training, nice and simple.

plodder

rainbow kirby wrote: »

It's always a size thing with the men... :pac:

Whenever I ask the OH what she'd like, she says "something small, but expensive". I don't know which is worse. :rolleyes:

On gadgets though, I find the Garmin watch incredibly useful. The acid test for a gadget is if you still find it essential 6 months or a year after getting it, and now a year later, I hate going for a run without it. Can't be bothered using the HRM though.

robinph

I don't understand the question?

A world without my gadgets is not worth living in.

earlyevening

I'm not a gadget man at all. I like to focus on the core issue - running faster. Analysing alll this data might be somewhat interesting but I'm not sure it makes anyone faster.
All I need is my little digital watch and the will to put the effort in on a consistent basis.

petermijackson

While I enjoy running with just me and the earth under my feet and forgetting all about time, I find it useful to use the Forerunner 405 when running to look back over times and also distance ran.

If nothing else gets you out training then it will be the fact that you have just spent €300 approx on a gadget and you may as well use it :P

I cannot see the harm in it if it keeps people interested in their running - it also allows you to set your own targets and keep a log of your runs.

uglyjohn

i think anyone who starts off fresh planning to run races is going to have times at the back of their mind and the internet (and this forum) is full of people saying 12x100 metre intervals at 87% heart rate and 8:12 mile pace. of course beginners aiming for a certain time are going to want a HRM and Garmin.

back in dublin thnks to map my run i had a 10km route and a half marathon route which i ran regularly. i used to bring my 10euro casio with me so i could tell my average pace but i have done the same circut so many times gave me a real feel for pacing. often i'd leave the watch at home and pace myself without it. what im trying to say is im sure its nice to know your pace and HR constantly but im sure all the experienced people here can have a decent stab at it based on how they feel.

christeb

Personally I find the 405 a huge help, and even more so when I started out. It's half the fact I'm a natural stat-head, half the fact it's an expensive piece of kit you almost feel guilted into using, which helps motivation. The fact that improvements are so tangible turns this snowballs this initial motivation - which then firmly roots the seed of running. And you're hooked!

robinph

petermijackson wrote: »

If nothing else gets you out training then it will be the fact that you have just spent €300 approx on a gadget and you may as well use it :P

If I'm feeling a bit de-motivated about going for a run then I'd use the fact that my poor gadgets would be feeling unloved If I don't get out there and use them.

tunney

--amadeus-- wrote: »

We're a kind of one stop shop and clearing house for runners and triathletes so people ask questions in here that they maybe wouldn't ask elsewhere. And because all levels of people ask about all kinds of things peole get exposed to ideas and concepts maybe earlier than they would if they mixed only with thier peer group.

So we get a huge number of people on here talking about HRMs, GPS, turbos (and all sorts of other tri exotica). It's not unusual to see peole who are still fairly new to running, frequently a year or less, looking at sophisticated equipment that would have been unavailable to elites even a few years ago.

Now I'm no one to criticise (I'm wearing a shiny new 405 as I write ) but do you think people are getting overly dependent on the gadgets? Doesn't it make sense to spend some time learning your own body before getting performance monitoring gadgets?

Or should newbies grab all the goodies they can because they need the help the most?

Meh - people waste their money on stuff they don't use, nor know how to use, the whole time. What harm.

I don't think that there is an over dependence on any HRMs or SnDMs or PMs because simply enough most people don't use them to control their training but rather as a recording tool and as so no dependency can develop.

BJohnson

I think this is a really good question, and one that I was thinking about just this past week.

I've been running off and on for the past 15 years, but much more consistently for the past five. The only piece of technology I ever ran with was my iPod shuffle, which I find a huge help for long runs.

I was given a Forerunner 405 as a surprise gift about 6 weeks ago, and I have to say, it's pretty sweet. I've completed 14 marathons in the past seven years, and was always happy enough just to finish in under four hours. This past year, however, a patient was telling me how much he relies on his HRM and pretty much convinced me to start training with some more serious goals in mind. For that, I find the 405 really helpful. Being able to program the watch with my workouts for the next month is great, and setting a purpose for each run really helps keep me motivated, especially with the rain at this time of year. I like my gadgets too, so having something that combines running with a bit of tech is perfect for me.

What I've thought about the most though is that I don't think I would get nearly as much out of it if I was just starting out running. Having done things with less structure and less accuracy in the beginner years has given me a much bigger appreciation for what the watch can do. I think I got it at the perfect time, when I was getting a bit bored of casual running and was then ready to train a bit more seriously.

So I wouldn't say I'm dependent on gadgets, but it has given me a new perspective on my running and has helped keep my motivation high.

Krusty_Clown

uglyjohn wrote: »

back in dublin thnks to map my run i had a 10km route and a half marathon route which i ran regularly. i used to bring my 10euro casio with me so i could tell my average pace but i have done the same circut so many times gave me a real feel for pacing. often i'd leave the watch at home and pace myself without it. what im trying to say is im sure its nice to know your pace and HR constantly but im sure all the experienced people here can have a decent stab at it based on how they feel.

You see, this is where the technology sets you free. I rarely run the same route twice, without having some kind of deviation. The watch tracks my distance, I don't have to pre-plan where I'm going to go, or get bored with the same 'ol route. Over-dependancy?! Be a free spirit!

Blueskye

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

You see, this is where the technology sets you free. I rarely run the same route twice, without having some kind of deviation. The watch tracks my distance, I don't have to pre-plan where I'm going to go, or get bored with the same 'ol route. Over-dependancy?! Be a free spirit!

Exactly, you can run wherever the mood takes you. I love my 405 and only use a few of its many features but I figure I can grow into it. I love being able to run wherever I want without having to stick to the same routes just because I know their distance.

TFBubendorfer

Blueskye wrote: »

Exactly, you can run wherever the mood takes you. I love my 405 and only use a few of its many features but I figure I can grow into it. I love being able to run wherever I want without having to stick to the same routes just because I know their distance.

Actually, you can run wherever the mood takes you even if you don't have a Garmin strapped to your wrist. You just don't get the instant feedback on distance and pace.

Blueskye

Very very true!! But it is nice to know how far you've run without having to take a drive around it later or using mapmyrun which I loathe.

uglyjohn

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

You see, this is where the technology sets you free. I rarely run the same route twice, without having some kind of deviation. The watch tracks my distance, I don't have to pre-plan where I'm going to go, or get bored with the same 'ol route. Over-dependancy?! Be a free spirit!

good point, it would be nice to just mix it up on a whim. im actually being given a garmin soon so im looking forward to that.

racheljev

You see, this is where the technology sets you free. I rarely run the same route twice, without having some kind of deviation. The watch tracks my distance, I don't have to pre-plan where I'm going to go, or get bored with the same 'ol route. Over-dependancy?! Be a free spirit!

Yep, I agree with this as well. I'm only running since February so I'm pretty new to the whole thing. But one thing I've discovered is that I HATE laps of the same route over and over again. I head out the door and say "where to now?" Up till 2 weeks ago, I'd run for a set period of time - 40, 50, 60 etc mins, head home and mapmyrun. Mapmyrun is grand but it can be awkward if I decide to run up one road, down the next one, around the green patch in the middle of the road etc etc. Now I have a Garmin 305 which I love sooo much. I can check how far I've run and then head home when I hit 4, 5, 6 miles. It's also helping me keep my pace much more steady than it was. I don't use the hrm yet because I don't think I know enough about that stuff yet, but hopefully next year. Sorry, long winded reply!

shels4ever

Defo no overdependance in technology, just have my gear for my next race sorted

--amadeus--

There is a difference between using technology as a tool and depending on it though. As the lads are saying it's nice to set off and run where you want knowing that you will run the right distance, for example.

But I used to totally depend on my Garmin during marathons. When I ran Berlin I didn't even bother working out km splits since I knew I'd have teh Garmin. When it lost the GPS signal under some tall buildings and didn't lock back on again (something that happened to a few in the same race I later found out) I was totally lost, no idea how far I had run, where I was in relation to my target, lost on my pace. Race was a bit of a disaster as a result.

Now I'm a bit more experienced I always have a back up set of splits calculated but I'm also more aware of how race pace feels so if my watch dies I'm still able to race.

Krusty_Clown

Your €10 digital stop-watch could have run out of batteries. Your gels could have leaked. Your shoe-lace might have snapped. You have to prepare for every eventuality. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

See it's when you start to use the watch as more than a tool, that you start to experience problems. I've experienced two similar scenarios:

1) XC race on sunday. Didn't really use the watch at all, but had been told that the race was 5 miles, so when the watch told me I had covered 4.5 miles, I picked up the pace. finish-line didn't come until 5.4 miles. This is actually down to human error/bad judgement on my part.

2) Berlin marathon - As a last minute snap decision I ran at 6:51 pace for three hours thinking I would get under the finish in under three hours. Again, human error.

Which brings me to my cliche number 9: There are no bad cars, just bad drivers.
Yay! Cliche Bingo. I win!

The real question is: Is there an over-dependance on cliches on this forum?

--amadeus--

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

The real question is: Is there an over-dependance on cliches on this forum?

Lots of clichés on a BB? :eek:

aero2k

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

The real question is: Is there an over-dependance on cliches on this forum?

At the end of the day, yes!

I hate gadgets which are marketing and fashion driven - you know the way some people need a new phone every couple of months (do they have more interesting conversations on the upgraded ones?). I resisted the temptation to buy a Garmin for ages but finally caved in and bought a 305 just around the time they were becoming obsolete. I find it very useful, particularly for intervals. For most of my runs, I don't look at it that much, but I do watch the pace during my twice weekly sessions. I found it very helpful for pacing during DCM '09.
As it was cold today I had my sleeve pulled down over the Garmin. When I looked at the splits afterwards I was amused to find I'd run 7:53, 7:55, 7:49, 7:47, 7:48, 7:50, 7:49, 7:49 with a HR of 146-154. Maybe I'm getting the hang of listening to my body...

BJohnson

Blueskye wrote: »

But it is nice to know how far you've run without having to take a drive around it later or using mapmyrun which I loathe.

I couldn't agree with you more - that site used to be great, but now it's covered in ads and is very awkward to use. They've ruined a perfectly good site.

Check out Google Pedometer - I think it's what MapMyRun is based on to begin with. Lots of handy features, like "snap line to road" and autocomplete an out-and-back route. You can find it at:

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/

Hope that helps!

Brian

Timmaay

mm, I'm well up on my technology and work with computers and cant live without my phone and have the mp3 player and all that cr*p, but still I've never ever bothered with anything more than a watch when I'm running! And 1/2 the time I don't even bother with a watch! I prefer just racing to my own instinctive ability, experience has thought me by this stage what sort of pace I can run without blowing up.

My most enjoyable races have been ones that I dont even care what time or mile splits or whatever else that a watch/gps etc tells me, those races are when you get in a crazy dogfight with another runner and every ounce of your body just wants to beat them to the finishline. No figures on a watch/gps etc can ever recreate that adrenaline rush!!!

I suppose I'm talking specifically about races here, in regards training, I think a watch and gps obviously is very useful if you are training on your own, but to be honest I rarely train on my own. Again, I will say training with other people is as good as any technology, Other people push you along when your training and to be honest I run as much for the social side of things, to catch up and have a chat with someone for an hour!

nerraw1111

This being my first year running, I haven't used any technology as all the advice given to me was just enjoy it and build up the miles and don't worry about pacing etc.

I would map out my route on mapmyruns and check the clock before leaving to give me a rough idea of what time I was doing. And it worked. I enjoyed the marathon, ran it without a watch and managed to complete the second half of the marathon just 8 mins or so slower than the first.

However, as Krusty says, having a 405 'sets you free' or at least that's the appeal of the 405 to me.

I'm growing tired of using map my run to calculate distance in advance and sticking rigidly to it.

I plan to seriously improve my times next year and I think a 405 will be a huge help in achieving this, especially in terms of pacing etc.

I think some people use technology to the extent where it's no longer fun, just a series of equations and projections.

Pisco Sour

For triathlons I use a speedometer (or whatever its called) for the cycle leg. But for running I dont bother. I just use a stop watch and mapmyrun!

ronanmac

Was reading this thread with interest, especially, two weeks ago, after my one year old (who has mastered the arts of walking and placing objects in places where they are not supposed to be) had placed my Forerunner 205 somewhere for safe-keeping, which I have yet to discover.

I will never let a gadget go by me, and have used the Forerunner religiously to keep track of pace, distance etc, and had a Timex GPS unit before that. Anyway, I have been a bit lost for the past two weeks without it, and was a bit anxious heading down to Waterford for the half-marathon without a GPS. My plan was to use a stopwatch to keep a rough idea of pace at mile markers. I wasn't sure how I would go without the Forerunner, but as I usually drop off the pace when I'm not paying attention to it, I guessed that I would run considerably slower than my target of sub 1:50.

Unfortunately, when I went to start my Aldi stopwatch at the beginning of the race, I noticed the Start button had fallen off :eek:, so, for my first race ever, I was flying blind! As I am useless at judging pace, I decided to lock onto the pace of a few other runners who were running at a pace that was slightly faster than what I would normally be comfortable with.

Lo and behold, I set a new PB, 1:42:11, over 13 minutes quicker than my previous PB. Moral of the story? Not sure, but am seriously tempted to give the Forerunner the boot for future races, presuming it ever reappers. I just hope the young lad didn't decide to stash it in the same place he put my car keys the other day, the toilet:eek:

littlebug

ronanmac wrote: »

I just hope the young lad didn't decide to stash it in the same place he put my car keys the other day, the toilet:eek:

Check in all the shoes :cool: Well done on the pb Ronanmac.

I just use a stopwatch but I can't wait to get a garmin.... I just know it'll make me run faster

shaungil

I thought Triathlon was the anti Sprite ad. Image is everything.

I always felt that if someone rocked to a race with a class looking bike it was a real pity if they didn't do justice to the bike.

But then on the the hand if you start tri's or running and take it seriously you probably have given up booze and socialising so you might as well spend your money on nice toys despite the minimal improvement they give to you.

But on the other hand would that money be better spent on a coach or dietitian?

Or are the people who buy loads of toys like this in normal life anyway?

Ah isn't life great it takes all sorts.

Personally gat a free HRM felt it was controlling me so dumped it have a stop watch on my EUR 10 digital watch and a standard cycle computer. If I go pro then I might get other stuff but until then amn't too worried and find it hard enought o fit the time in to train never mind play with the toys around.