Let's count to 100 - Facts & Stats of the Western Rail Corridor

IIMII

Inspired by Victor's suggestion in another thread on about an a-political discussion, I thought this thread might be interesting for those of us that (sometimes) like to educmacated by those that know a bit more about the subject matter than the ordinary Joe Soap. I lifted these fact / stats below from Wikipedia to get the ball rolling..

1. The term Western Rail Corridor encompasses a disparate series of railways built by various companies throughout the late 1800s, forming a south-north line from Limerick to Sligo.
2. Distances are as follows: Phase 1: Ennis to Athenry 58 km / 36 miles, Phase 2: Athenry to Tuam 25 km / 15.5 miles, Phase 3: Tuam to Claremorris 27 km / 17 miles, Phase 4: Collooney to Claremorris 74.43 km / 46.25 miles
3. Towns along the WRC include Ennis, Gort, Athenry, Tuam and Claremorris.
4. The route crosses the Dublin–Galway line at Athenry, the Dublin–Westport/Ballina line at Claremorris and joins the Dublin–Sligo line at Collooney.
5. The route largely parallels the corridor served by the N17 and N18 roads.
6. Passenger services between Claremorris and Collooney ended in 1963, with the section being closed completely in 1975 (the track was left in situ but severed at Collooney).
7. Passenger services between Limerick and Claremorris ceased in 1976, though freight services continued for some time afterwards.
8. In 1988, the Limerick and Ennis section reopened.

Who's up next?

DWCommuter

Reopen the original thread. Its all in there anyway.

FFS you'd think the WRC was the holy grail with all this carry on. Did the mods get free booze from WOT or something?

Its pathetically funny.:D:D:D:D

IIMII

Yeah but it's a million pages to get through to find it. All right, I have a few questions that I'd love to know the answers:

How long Sligo to Limerick?
How long Limerick to Galway?
How long Sligo to Galway?
How do each of these times compare to road?
What is the speed limit likely to be on each of the sections?
What happens at Athenry - will all trains proceed to Galway or will there be a switch?
Will it be feasable to commute from Tuam to Limerick?
Are there any land-use strategies in place for the new stations?
What kind of rolling-stock will be on the line(s)?

There just straight forward question that I just thought of off the top of my head, and I'd love to be able to quick reference them if anyone knows the answers.

corktina

add to that list...how far is it NOW from Sligo to Limerick/Galway by rail...Yes they are ALREADY rail conected ...

Hungerford

IIMII wrote: »

How long Sligo to Limerick?
How long Limerick to Galway?
How long Sligo to Galway?
How do each of these times compare to road?
What is the speed limit likely to be on each of the sections?
What happens at Athenry - will all trains proceed to Galway or will there be a switch?
Will it be feasable to commute from Tuam to Limerick?
Are there any land-use strategies in place for the new stations?
What kind of rolling-stock will be on the line(s)?

I'll try a few of these:
How do each of these times compare to road?
For Limerick to Galway
Road: 1 hour 30 min vs WRC: 2 hours to 2 hours 20 minutes

Likely speed limits
For Limerick to Galway
Between 40mph and 60mph

What happens at Athenry - will all trains proceed to Galway or will there be a switch?
Driver switches ends. Train proceeds to Galway

Will it be feasable to commute from Tuam to Limerick?
Possible but insane. I can't see how it would take anything less than 2hr 30 mins.

What kind of rolling-stock will be on the line(s)?
2700 series railcars

IIMII

Thanks Hungerford.

So say that the entire WRC was reopen from sligo to Limerick, what would the principle commuting patterns be?

I can't really see Galway - Limerick going on your figures above for a start.

Gort - Galway
Gort - Limerick
Tuam - Galway

What would Tuam - Sligo, and Claremorris - Sligo and Claremorris - Galway be? And their equivalents by road?

SeanW

How many times has the Ennis-Limerick line flooded in the past 10 years?

Carawaystick

SeanW wrote: »

How many times has the Ennis-Limerick line flooded in the past 10 years?

Not that many. It's cos when it floods it's flooded for ages. if it flooded every week for 6 weeks that's six times but if it only floods once for 6 weeks than that's only one flood against it.

Just for a bit of objectivity could someone say how many times the N18 dual carriageway from Barefield to Limerick has flooded and needed to be closed?

Will people think it'll be "grand" for the newly built Gort to Barefield dual carriageway to flood like the new rail line from Ennis to Athenry?

Gort had a population of just over 2700 at the last census. As a load of the Brazillians have lost work and probably have gone home, I'd say it'll hardly be much higher at the next census.

Crania

Hungerford wrote: »

What happens at Athenry - will all trains proceed to Galway or will there be a switch?
Driver switches ends. Train proceeds to Galway

So does that mean that train will go from Athenry, after the drver changing sides, then the driver change sides again in Galway and goes back to Athenry only to change sides again and continue onto Claremorris (when that section is eventually completed)?

Seems more than a bit awkward and cumbersome to me.

I can't understand why they didn't just forget about some parts of the original route and route it from Ennis straight to Galway City and forget about Athenry.

IIMII

Carawaystick wrote: »

Not that many. It's cos when it floods it's flooded for ages. if it flooded every week for 6 weeks that's six times but if it only floods once for 6 weeks than that's only one flood against it.

Maybe a better way of asking again is how much down-time has there been on the Ennis - Athenry line due flooding over the past 10 years

Hungerford

IIMII wrote: »

So say that the entire WRC was reopen from sligo to Limerick, what would the principle commuting patterns be?

At a guess:
Ennis - Limerick
Gort - Galway
Tuam - Galway

I don't know enough about the final stretch to give you any definitive answer. I'll look into it.

Hungerford

Crania wrote: »

So does that mean that train will go from Athenry, after the drver changing sides, then the driver change sides again in Galway and goes back to Athenry only to change sides again and continue onto Claremorris (when that section is eventually completed)?

Nope. If he is going to Claremorris he doesn't have to change sides. I've included a fantastically crude map to show you the layout at Athenry.

The red line is the main Dublin-Galway line. The green one in the bottom corner is the line to Limerick. The blue one at the top corner is the one to Claremorris.

In fairness, to CIE, realigning the route so there was no changing of ends would involve substantial diversions - particularly as it appears that Athenry Castle is in the way - as well as a number of messy junctions.

Basically, you'd need four lines: two from Claremorris to/from Galway and two from Limerick to/Galway - both sets of which would have to merge somewhere outside Athenry.

Tech3

IIMII wrote: »

How long Sligo to Limerick?

Sligo to Limerick is 3hr 5 mins by road keeping to the limit

When Gort-Crusheen, Limerick Tunnel N7 and the M17/M18 PPP is done it will be around 2hr 20 mins

Any estimates on how long a Sligo to Limerick journey would be by rail?

IIMII

1. The term Western Rail Corridor encompasses a disparate series of railways built by various companies throughout the late 1800s, forming a south-north line from Limerick to Sligo.
2. Distances are as follows: Phase 1: Ennis to Athenry 58 km / 36 miles, Phase 2: Athenry to Tuam 25 km / 15.5 miles, Phase 3: Tuam to Claremorris 27 km / 17 miles, Phase 4: Collooney to Claremorris 74.43 km / 46.25 miles
3. Towns along the WRC include Ennis, Gort, Athenry, Tuam and Claremorris.
4. The route crosses the Dublin–Galway line at Athenry, the Dublin–Westport/Ballina line at Claremorris and joins the Dublin–Sligo line at Collooney.
5. The route largely parallels the corridor served by the N17 and N18 roads.
6. Passenger services between Claremorris and Collooney ended in 1963, with the section being closed completely in 1975 (the track was left in situ but severed at Collooney).
7. Passenger services between Limerick and Claremorris ceased in 1976, though freight services continued for some time afterwards.
8. In 1988, the Limerick and Ennis section reopened.
9. Journey time Limerick-Galway via the WRC: 2 hours to 2 hours 20 minutes, road 1 hour 30 min when upgrades are completed
10. Journey time Limerick - Tuam via the WRC: circa 2hr 30 mins
11. Rolling-stock (probable) on the line: 2700 series railcars
12. The probable speed-limit between Limerick and Galway on the WRC is between 40mph and 60mph
13. Driver will have to switch ends of train on a journey from Limerick to Galway at Athenry owing to the track layout of Athenry station.
14. The main commuting patterns on the line will probably be: Ennis - Limerick, Gort - Galway & Tuam - Galway

Unanswered questions:

1. Sligo to Limerick by road is currently 3hr 5 mins keeping to the limit. When Gort-Crusheen, Limerick Tunnel N7 and the M17/M18 PPP is done it will be around 2hr 20 mins. What will Sligo - Limerick be by WRC?
2. How much downtime has there been on the Ennis-Athenry line due to flooding over the past 10 years?

Hungerford

IIMII wrote: »

1. Sligo to Limerick by road is currently 3hr 5 mins keeping to the limit. When Gort-Crusheen, Limerick Tunnel N7 and the M17/M18 PPP is done it will be around 2hr 20 mins. What will Sligo - Limerick be by WRC?

If you assume that the trains maintain a constant speed of 50 mph on the sections that will reopen in later phases, around 4 hours. That said, West On Track claims 3 hours 30 minutes.

Hungerford

Actually here's a full set of WOT estimated times, from report produced by Galway County Council. The report is available here: http://www.westontrack.com/news103.doc

SLIGO-CLAREMORRIS: 1 hr 9 mins
SLIGO-GALWAY: 2hrs 17 mins
SLIGO-LIMERCK: 3hrs 31 mins
CLAREMORRIS-GALWAY: 1hr 10 mins
CLAREMORRIS-LIMERICK: 2hrs 22 mins
TUAM-GALWAY: 45 mins
ORANMORE-GALWAY: 10 mins
GALWAY-LIMERICK: 1 hr 52 mins*

*The actual IE timetabled time is 2hrs.

IIMII

Great - any idea of the road times on these?

Hungerford

IIMII wrote: »

Great - any idea of the road times on these?

Bus time estimates are in the document linked above but they are questionable at best.

T Corolla

Hungerford wrote: »

Actually here's a full set of WOT estimated times, from report produced by Galway County Council. The report is available here: http://www.westontrack.com/news103.doc

SLIGO-CLAREMORRIS: 1 hr 9 mins
SLIGO-GALWAY: 2hrs 17 mins
SLIGO-LIMERCK: 3hrs 31 mins
CLAREMORRIS-GALWAY: 1hr 10 mins
CLAREMORRIS-LIMERICK: 2hrs 22 mins
TUAM-GALWAY: 45 mins
ORANMORE-GALWAY: 10 mins
GALWAY-LIMERICK: 1 hr 52 mins*

*The actual IE timetabled time is 2hrs.

I assume with more future investments these journey times will decrease.
I think the best thing in the short term would be to use the three car intercity train instead of the railcar already used on the Ennis-Limerick line.
I think one of the biggest obstacles with the current times are the high number of level crossing on the line from Limerick to Sligo. One other point that I like to make is before any futher opening of the line north of Athenry would be to bring more stops on the current Ennis-Limerick line, The is talk of a station at Moyross which should be top of the agenda for Irish Rail as short journey commuter traffic is the best way to raise the loading on this line and then work their way onto Athenry. Intercity traffic will subside with the onstream of motorways both on the route entering Dublin not only to Limerck and Galway. A railway built on a 1800's style infrastructure is not a blueprint for future transport investment. There are a number of problems to be iron out before intercity type journeys can be brought to the table of the WRC. Folks is there anyone who subscribes to this thread from this region can they suggest any other envoirns that would be egible for a station ie is there area in Limerick with densly population that would help the case move forward

Carawaystick

Those WOT times are bull.
The Timetables are available now for Limerick to Galway - first train leaving Limerick at 6am, arrives into Galway at 8:25 - 2hr 25 mins or 145 mins in total.
see here and here

DWCommuter

Hungerford wrote: »

Actually here's a full set of WOT estimated times, from report produced by Galway County Council. The report is available here: http://www.westontrack.com/news103.doc

SLIGO-CLAREMORRIS: 1 hr 9 mins
SLIGO-GALWAY: 2hrs 17 mins
SLIGO-LIMERCK: 3hrs 31 mins
CLAREMORRIS-GALWAY: 1hr 10 mins
CLAREMORRIS-LIMERICK: 2hrs 22 mins
TUAM-GALWAY: 45 mins
ORANMORE-GALWAY: 10 mins
GALWAY-LIMERICK: 1 hr 52 mins*

*The actual IE timetabled time is 2hrs.

Baloney on most of those times.

Drive time from Limerick to Sligo from my 2005 experience was 3 hours after rush hour and without the shannon tunnel and Ennis bypass etc.

Sligo Limerick in 3hrs 31mins is the stuff of fantasy on the WRC.

westtip

Carawaystick wrote: »

Those WOT times are bull.
The Timetables are available now for Limerick to Galway - first train leaving Limerick at 6am, arrives into Galway at 8:25 - 2hr 25 mins or 145 mins in total.
see here and here

What about the population project figures in that paper!

Read like one of those local area plans coming out of the likes of Sligo County Council in the early part of the decade - total bullsh*t.

I don't think the through traffic Limerick - Galway is going to be that great - I think most users will either use the top half to commute to Galway or bottom half to commute to Limerick. Two coaches going either way each morning starting from Gort and shuttling backwards and forwards each day to the two terminal might actually offer a better service than through services.

Hungerford

Carawaystick wrote: »

The Timetables are available now for Limerick to Galway - first train leaving Limerick at 6am, arrives into Galway at 8:25 - 2hr 25 mins or 145 mins in total.

That's an extreme case - it basically parks in Ennis for 30 mins for reasons known only to IE. :rolleyes:

That said, I'm not endorsing any of the times in the above report. I think they are all highly questionable and I was just putting them out for people to see as a sort of best case scenario.

serfboard

I find comparisons are often not very helpful.

- Are we talking about city centre to city centre?

- Are we talking about peak times?

In both of the above train could win. Travelling through Galway at peak times can be a nightmare.

- Are we talking about work journeys or social journeys? Do work journeys encompass time from your house to time to your desk?

For instance, say Limerick->Galway takes you 2 hours by train. Grand, if you live near a train station and want to go to somewhere near a train station. If not, are you prepared to spend the time it takes to get to the train stations? Or would you rather sit in your car in traffic?

KC61

Hungerford wrote: »

That's an extreme case - it basically parks in Ennis for 30 mins for reasons known only to IE. :rolleyes:

That said, I'm not endorsing any of the times in the above report. I think they are all highly questionable and I was just putting them out for people to see as a sort of best case scenario.

I've already explained the reason for this twice!

That train is effectively an Ennis-Galway commuter service. It comes out from Limerick, and then splits. One portion returns at 0645 to Limerick to connect into the 0735 Limerick-Dublin service, while the other part waits until 0705 and then passes the 0640 Galway-Limerick service at Gort which will operate as the 0800 Ennis-Limerick commuter service.

As it would not be desireable to change either Ennis-Limerick service times, given that they are commuter/connecting services, that's why it waits at Ennis.

Timetabling the route is not straightforward as you are trying to:
1) Maintain Ennis-Dublin connections at Limerick
2) Maintain Ennis-Limerick commuter services
3) Fit around Galway-Dublin services between Galway and Athenry.
4) Offer commuting alternatives into Galway
5) Offer connections to/from Limerick Junction and onwards

Hungerford

KC61 wrote: »

That train is effectively an Ennis-Galway commuter service. It comes out from Limerick, and then splits. One portion returns at 0645 to Limerick to connect into the 0735 Limerick-Dublin service, while the other part waits until 0705 and then passes the 0640 Galway-Limerick service at Gort which will operate as the 0800 Ennis-Limerick commuter service.

Surely though, it would be logical to provide another passing loop on the line so that the Ennis-Galway service doesn't have to wait so long because it has to cross the 0640 service at Gort.

corktina

T Corolla wrote: »

I assume with more future investments these journey times will decrease.
I think the best thing in the short term would be to use the three car intercity train instead of the railcar already used on the Ennis-Limerick line.
I think one of the biggest obstacles with the current times are the high number of level crossing on the line from Limerick to Sligo. One other point that I like to make is before any futher opening of the line north of Athenry would be to bring more stops on the current Ennis-Limerick line, The is talk of a station at Moyross which should be top of the agenda for Irish Rail as short journey commuter traffic is the best way to raise the loading on this line and then work their way onto Athenry. Intercity traffic will subside with the onstream of motorways both on the route entering Dublin not only to Limerck and Galway. A railway built on a 1800's style infrastructure is not a blueprint for future transport investment. There are a number of problems to be iron out before intercity type journeys can be brought to the table of the WRC. Folks is there anyone who subscribes to this thread from this region can they suggest any other envoirns that would be egible for a station ie is there area in Limerick with densly population that would help the case move forward

More stations will of course incur a time penalty making the line even less competitive. At least Moyross is a better idea than Crusheen though,with some hope of passengers, but without a more regular service it wont be very conveniant for most people and the only way to get more trains is to have more passing loops ((and that wont happen unless there is a very good level of usage...a vicious circle i think but does IE have the will to make it work?

KC61

Hungerford wrote: »

Surely though, it would be logical to provide another passing loop on the line so that the Ennis-Galway service doesn't have to wait so long because it has to cross the 0640 service at Gort.

For one train????? Realistically how many people are going to be travelling to Galway from Limerick at 0600? Passing loops are not exactly cheap. The train fills the purpose of an Ennis-Galway commuter service.

The problem is not that it has to wait for the 0640 from Galway, because it would have to wait at Athenry anyhow for the train from Athlone to clear the signals on its way into Galway.

Carawaystick

Hungerford wrote: »

Surely though, it would be logical to provide another passing loop on the line so that the Ennis-Galway service doesn't have to wait so long because it has to cross the 0640 service at Gort.

Surely it would be logical to scrap the whole fscking thing and build a dual carriageway so private and state coaches and private motorists could travel quickly, efficiently and safely instead of wasting the money to provide a poor train service and claim it's a commuter service.

DWCommuter

Carawaystick wrote: »

Surely it would be logical to scrap the whole fscking thing and build a dual carriageway so private and state coaches and private motorists could travel quickly, efficiently and safely instead of wasting the money to provide a poor train service and claim it's a commuter service.

BINGO!

Judgement Day

This is starting to look like the old WRC thread under a different name.

corktina

gr8 innit:D

StephenM_smc

Carawaystick wrote: »

Surely it would be logical to scrap the whole fscking thing and build a dual carriageway so private and state coaches and private motorists could travel quickly, efficiently and safely instead of wasting the money to provide a poor train service and claim it's a commuter service.

Are they not doing that anyway? So along side the new WRC you will have the M18 and M17 (As far as Tuam), making it more feasible to just take a car along the route than take a train?

Edit: I tried to get some information off the NRA website but a lot of the projects along the route are coming up with dead links.

Tech3

StephenM_smc wrote: »

Are they not doing that anyway? So along side the new WRC you will have the M18 and M17 (As far as Tuam), making it more feasible to just take a car along the route than take a train?

Edit: I tried to get some information off the NRA website but a lot of the projects along the route are coming up with dead links.

If you want the latest information on the big schemes head over to the Infrastructure forum.

We have a massive thread on the M18 here:

M18 Ennis to Galway

and the latest thread created for the M18/M17

M17/M18- Gort to Tuam

Carawaystick

StephenM_smc wrote: »

Are they not doing that anyway? So along side the new WRC you will have the M18 and M17 (As far as Tuam), making it more feasible to just take a car along the route than take a train?

Edit: I tried to get some information off the NRA website but a lot of the projects along the route are coming up with dead links.

The wrc isn't new. that's part of the whole problem.

I see in the irish times today that IÉ have been given a derogation from the standard EU rules for compo to passengers delayed or who have baggage lost, for five years but they can get it extended for another 10 years if they want to.

Hungerford

corktina wrote: »

More stations will of course incur a time penalty making the line even less competitive.

Just for the record, here are the list of the original stations from Limerick to Sligo. I have highlighted the main stations in bold.

Limerick
Longpavement
Meelick [closed 1862]
Cratloe
Sixmilebridge
Ballycar
Ardsollus & Quin
Clarecastle
Ennis
Crusheen
Tubber
Gort
Ardrahan
Craughwell
Athenry
Ballyglunin
Tuam
Castlegrove
Milltown
Ballindine
Claremorris
Kiltimagh
Swinford
Charlestown
Curry
Tubbercurry
Carrowmore
Leyny
Collooney Southern
Sligo

According to the 1936 GSR Working Timetable, the entire section was rated for 50mph maximum operation, except for Longpavement to Sixmilebridge, which was 40mph max.

westtip

Judgement Day wrote: »

This is starting to look like the old WRC thread under a different name.

There is only one true original - I see Victor has completley ignored the requests from nearly everyone to have THAT thread re-opened.

Judgement Day

Remember it wasn't Victor who locked the thread and the Mod that did has not seen fit to comment on their action - what ever you say, say nothing!

PS Anyword on the water level at Kiltartan and elsewhere on the WRC Canal?

StephenM_smc

Carawaystick wrote: »

The wrc isn't new. that's part of the whole problem.

Admittedly "new" was the wrong choice of words. From my own perspective I think getting the roads upgraded would make more of a difference to the region than the WRC re-opening. I'd love to be able to take the train from Ballina to places south of Claremorris in competitive times to road transport, but I think the priority needs to stick with roads in the western region for now.

corktina

it surely is hard to defend the way the WRC was rebuilt. If a road is rebuilt, it is upgraded to almost motorway standard as a matter of course,the WRC is still a ninteenth century back water and a waste of money.To continue the analogy, the WRC should have been rebuilt to intercity standard,that it wasnt shows the lack of commitment to it by the Governmant and CIE and it shouldnt have been left to CIE to carry it through as they have split loyalties in that they run the paralell bus service.

I would love to see WOT counter that...

westtip

corktina wrote: »

it surely is hard to defend the way the WRC was rebuilt. If a road is rebuilt, it is upgraded to almost motorway standard as a matter of course,the WRC is still a ninteenth century back water and a waste of money.To continue the analogy, the WRC should have been rebuilt to intercity standard,that it wasnt shows the lack of commitment to it by the Governmant and CIE and it shouldnt have been left to CIE to carry it through as they have split loyalties in that they run the paralell bus service.

I would love to see WOT counter that...

Corky there was never commitment to this project as we alll know the whole thing is a sop to the wesht.

DWCommuter

corktina wrote: »

it surely is hard to defend the way the WRC was rebuilt. If a road is rebuilt, it is upgraded to almost motorway standard as a matter of course,the WRC is still a ninteenth century back water and a waste of money.To continue the analogy, the WRC should have been rebuilt to intercity standard,that it wasnt shows the lack of commitment to it by the Governmant and CIE and it shouldnt have been left to CIE to carry it through as they have split loyalties in that they run the paralell bus service.

I would love to see WOT counter that...

They couldn't counter it because they don't understand railways. All their "technical" advice came from a motley crew of enthusiasts with too much emotional attachment to the WRC.

The Government have no technical knowledge either and they relied on IE to deliver at the best possible price. IE never wanted to reopen it anyway so they just upgraded it at the cheapest cost and with minimal engineering hassle.

If we are to be truthfully honest with ourselves, the WRC as an intercity route between Limerick and Galway would need to be realigned in places, have curvature and gradients adjusted in an effort to make it faster and more efficient that it will turn out to be.

Im of the opinion that this upgraded stretch of railway is not much different to that which originally openened in the 19th century. So after all the campaigning, political interference, hate filled rants in the media, on the web etc. the state has decided to adapt a 19th century railway to 21st century needs, without a single piece of 21st century thinking. The biggest sin is that those who wanted it most are happy with that.

Hmmm, things sure got very 1 sided in the past 7 days...

Anyways, thanks to all those who've attempted to change the closed shop antics of the WRC thread. I can't go into much detail (am on a mobile phone, characters limited) but i think i can see why.

Sponge Bob

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyways, thanks to all those who've attempted to change the closed shop antics of the WRC thread.

The worst single antic I EVER saw on that thread was where YOU deliberately misquoted others.

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The worst single antic I EVER saw...deliberately misquoted others.

Well SB, I'd ask you to do a search on boards.ie for "fixed your post". Now I'm not defending what I got barred 4, but that's what I based them on.

Sponge Bob

You did nothing of the sort. It was a straight and utterly dishonest and misleading misquote.

If you want to engage in juvenile 'fixed that for you' BS in future then remember.

1. You cannot 'fix' a whole sentence or paragraph you just invented yourself and mis attributed to anothe rposter.
2. Use colour tags or
3. Use strikethrough tags.

Steady on Spongey, no need for the bold lettering. I'd prefer the fyp arguments to come via pm, not drag this thread off topic.

Anyways, I'm going to dig the other thread, and submit an analysis.

Hungerford

Come on lads, you can't fight in here, this is the new WRC thread. Seriously, just PM your insults to each other.

Sponge Bob

Deleted User wrote: »

Steady on Spongey, no need for the bold lettering. I'd prefer the fyp arguments to come via pm, not drag this thread off topic.

Never Misquote me again
Never 'fix' any posts again no matter whose.
NEVER SEND ME A PM under any circumstances at all.

I put you on my ignore list before I posted this.

Well, if you won't accept PMs (haven't sent you one)

If you took my fyp posts as a deliberate attempt to put words in your mouth, to claim that you said something you didn't, then I apologise for those posts. those fyp posts were meant to illustrate what they sounded like to me at the time. I thought that FYP was a boards.ie staple, like "yore ma" (NO double meaning intended!) which people would read as "This is what, in my opinion, I think you said"

Now can we get on with business at hand? I've a long post in the other open WRC thread I hope you read. And let's not turn up our noses at each other.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought that FYP was a boards.ie staple, like "yore ma" (NO double meaning intended!) which people would read as "This is what, in my opinion, I think you said"

An After Hours staple. Not on the more serious forums.