Classic - caught drafting in eireman

tunney

Some good photos going around of drafting in Eireman,

mloc123

Any link for those who have held out on joining facebook this long?

thirstywork

not up to date with the lingo?
all i see is Roscrea express int he background:D

shaungil

Name and Shame?

plodder

Just curious, as I know nothing about cycling/tris. But how far do you have to be behind someone, to be not drafting?

Bambaata

7m from their front wheel i believe. I could be wrong though and i believe there are still some benefits at 7m

hunnymonster

bam is right,

In Sprint and Standard Distance events the “Draft Zone” is a rectangle surrounding every competitor that is 3 metres wide and extends to 7 metres behind the front wheel of the competitor's bicycle. The front edge of the front bicycle wheel will define the centre of the leading 3-metre edge of the rectangle. A competitor may enter the draft zone but must be seen to be making forward progress. A maximum of 15 seconds will be allowed for a competitor to pass through the draft zone.

plodder

hunnymonster wrote: »

bam is right,

In Sprint and Standard Distance events the “Draft Zone” is a rectangle surrounding every competitor that is 3 metres wide and extends to 7 metres behind the front wheel of the competitor's bicycle. The front edge of the front bicycle wheel will define the centre of the leading 3-metre edge of the rectangle. A competitor may enter the draft zone but must be seen to be making forward progress. A maximum of 15 seconds will be allowed for a competitor to pass through the draft zone.

Interesting. Sounds pretty clear-cut then.

griffin100

The triathlon peleton.............

Bambaata

oh the shame. anyone know anyone there or does anyone see thewmselves :P

jcunniffe

Nice photos but just to note that a single still photo does not prove drafting!

In the 'Dolan Train' posted by Tunney we cannot be sure that the 2nd biker has not just overtaken the 3rd biker and has just swung in before making a pass to overtake the lead rider. Unlikely, though that may seem.

Also Tunney, does this not look to be pretty close to a legal 7m paceline?

In the 'Group' photo, all of the riders may actually all be correctly:
- overtaking,
- dropping back
- avoiding blocking

(again, unlikely). Remember, drafting is an activity that takes place over AT LEAST 15seconds. If the situations in the this photo persisted for 15seconds then rules are being infringed.

J

tagoona

While I'd be disinclined to convict based on a single photo, I've got to say that in all likelihood, that group are all drafting.

Highway_To_Hell

I got passed out by a few peletons in that race, at one point while I was been passed out the draft marshal was clapping and encouraging people along. At no point did I see a draft marshal taking numbers or shouting warnings at people and in the HIM only 9 people picked up penalties.

I know the race had it's problems but the bike course was perfect for competitors not to draft as we had full access to the width of the motorway.

mloc123

To be fair, I think drafting was pretty low down on the listof problems for Eireman..

griffin100

Believe me when I say that drafting was a huge problem in this race, especially when cycling southbound into the wind. For some riders 6-8 man peletons were the norm.

tunney

jcunniffe wrote: »

Nice photos but just to note that a single still photo does not prove drafting!

In the 'Dolan Train' posted by Tunney we cannot be sure that the 2nd biker has not just overtaken the 3rd biker and has just swung in before making a pass to overtake the lead rider. Unlikely, though that may seem.

Also Tunney, does this not look to be pretty close to a legal 7m paceline?

In the 'Group' photo, all of the riders may actually all be correctly:
- overtaking,
- dropping back
- avoiding blocking

(again, unlikely). Remember, drafting is an activity that takes place over AT LEAST 15seconds. If the situations in the this photo persisted for 15seconds then rules are being infringed.

J

Point taken on one photo not proving drafting. However if treated as a static marshall how many would be needed?

If rider two had just taken rider three and was about to pass the engine I want to meet this man and shake his hand. Overtaking Dolan and they're not McCrystal

It is close to a pace line but isn't IMHO. Too close.

Personally I prefer the WTC drafting rule to the ITU/TI one. Once you enter the draft zone YOU MUST PASS, and no slingshoting.

mloc123

griffin100 wrote: »

Believe me when I say that drafting was a huge problem in this race, especially when cycling southbound into the wind. For some riders 6-8 man peletons were the norm.

Oh I know, I saw them. Race was a shambles.

dario28

griffin100 wrote: »

The triathlon peleton.............

The guy 2nd from the right...correct me if I am wrong but that doesnt look like a comfortable riding position for that distance of race...im only a newbie so could be totally wrong ???

hunnymonster

tunney wrote: »

Point taken on one photo not proving drafting. However if treated as a static marshall how many would be needed?

3

hunnymonster

They other thing to be aware of is that sometimes it's just not possible to avoid drafting. Sometimes coming out of transition there are 30 bikes in about 50 meters of road. Irish roads are not wide enough to allow the correct space but it usually sorts itself out quickly enough. Deliberate drafting is usually obvious.


Aside: to the person who abused me in East Dunmore this summer, contrary to what you and your bad language believe, going up a hill is not a valid reason for drafting, particularly into a headwind.

n-dawg

Hey I was at eireman, thankfully I'm not in any of those photos :-)
The problem I always find with the drafting rules in Tris is, when going into a head wind (Eireman had a monster head wind) you can get a big advantage even when your outside the draft zone. In the Dolan train photo... (assuming the riders are 7.1m behind and going into the wind) the two other riders are getting an advantage and not breaking any rules! Because of this I think groups form when cycling into a headwind, even when everybody in the group isn't breaking the 7m rule... Going with the wind the advantage is gone and I have always found that the groups break up.

I always feel this is a problem with the drafting rules, where do you draw the line of getting an advantage or not? And if you make the zone too large you drastically limit the number of entries to your races too small and "legal" groups will form because there is an advantage. But I definitely feel that 7m is too small into a headwind

Poncherello

IMO its fairly way out of order posting a photo from someones private photo collection on here to prove what point exactly ?

That drafting occurs, wow whippity ****ing doo fair play to you

mloc123

Poncherello wrote: »

IMO its fairly way out of order posting a photo from someones private photo collection on here to prove what point exactly ?

That drafting occurs, wow whippity ****ing doo fair play to you

You one of the two?

dario28

Poncherello wrote: »

IMO its fairly way out of order posting a photo from someones private photo collection on here to prove what point exactly ?

That drafting occurs, wow whippity ****ing doo fair play to you

Unless you are one of the 2 then its not really your problem and you have fallen into the worst category of people ...the ones who get offend on behalf of other people and choose the moral high ground when really the owner couldnt give a fook if their pic was used or not....

of course if you are one of the 2 and your private online photo account was hacked then you have full rights to be annoyed

But really on the internet nothing is private just ask Sarah Palin
"Today, the Internet is a public, cooperative, and self-sustaining facility accessible to hundreds of millions of people worldwide."
http://searchwindevelopment.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid8_gci212370,00.html

Bambaata

personally i don't haver an issue with photos of cheats being displayed. Maybe its the way to tackle it. Name and shame. Was there anything ever mooted or is it in the rules that consistent drafters could get suspensions from TI sanctioned races for a period of races should they be caught drafting at x number of races?

hunnymonster

It's definitely not in the rules but I have no idea if it was ever discussed.

I think a better approach would be to increase the vigilance in detecting it. If the top boys are regularly put out of the prize money by drafting penalties, I think they would soon wise up. Unfortunately that approach requires manpower and given the abuse of marshals I saw this year (from race organisers and participants) I don't blame people for not wanting to be involved.

Clum

It's not possible to point out exactly who is drafting in those photos so it's not right to state certain people in those photos are drafting.

Sure enough, there seems to be a bunch of folk in one of the photos and all evidence points to drafting occuring but we don't know who is passing, being passed or just sitting in the slip stream.

I'm not in any of those photos, I don't know anybody in those photos, I wasn't even at eireman but I've been in enough triathlons to have experienced this type of situation. Often a few cyclists are working together, which is wrong, but unless we see a video or a series of photos we can't tell who is doing what.

This type of name and shame does not work. If you want to catch people in the act of drafting put up a video.

jollybean

totally right Clum
+1

Bambaata

I don't envy the job of a marshal. i did a few races myself last year but thankfully I wasn't on the bike section

hunnymonster

marshalling is fine, it's race ref and td that are pains.

ironmonkey

IMO drafting is worse in Irish races then in UK or Euorpean races. I think part of it is the speed at which the sport has grown that you get people who are not fully aware of the rules and others who are knowingly breaking the rules without enough penalties from marshals. Of course everyone gets stuck in the situation where there three or four people around you at roughly the same pace but it is up to you to either decide to push on or drop back. At Athy last year and this year there were groups of up to 20 riders in a pack with marshals sailing by doing sfa.

hunnymonster

worst drafting I ever saw was IM florida. 1 lap bike course so absolutely no excuse. Teams (in team kit) were actually out there working the chain gang together.