Printing Question... Paper connoisseurs.

AnCatDubh

If you are doing something that is a bit special, then what is your preferred paper to have your image printed onto and why?

Do people print on Pearl Paper or pay extra for something like Hahnemuhle Photorag (don't ask me to pronounce the first word) or something of far less quality?

Have you given consideration to having print output such that it will far outlive your time on this earth (I know maybe a bit too deep for this place)?

What do you like, where is the difference, and is it noticeable in the final product?

Fajitas!

AnCatDubh wrote: »

If you are doing something that is a bit special, then what is your preferred paper to have your image printed onto and why?

Do people print on Pearl Paper or pay extra for something like Hahnemuhle Photorag (don't ask me to pronounce the first word) or something of far less quality?

Have you given consideration to having print output such that it will far outlive your time on this earth (I know maybe a bit too deep for this place)?

I quite like Pearl paper, it's got the gloss, without being cheapish looking. I also like nice thick art rag papers. It depends on what's printing.

At the end of the day, budget is the decider, and I'll always go for the higher end, it shows in the long run. I'd hate to print on shoddy paper - My prints are what other people will be judging me on, and poor presentation usually does equal a poor photographer.

How long they'll last? I really don't know - Anything 'big' or important that I've printed, particularly for exhibitions, I'd hope lasts for a rather long time. If anyone saw the 3 rather large prints I'd done last June, they're being hung someplace that'll be around for quite a long time, so hopefully the prints will last too

What do you like, where is the difference, and is it noticeable in the final product?

I like expensive and professional. It shows. It really does.

Fajitas!

And while we're at it, printing isn't the be all and end all of presentation, you've gotta think of mounting and framing too. Do go to someone who knows what they are doing and has a selection of both. If double mounting works, go for it, if it needs something simpler, go for it.

I can't stand seeing cheapo frames/bad mounts on a nice print. Such a waste.

smelltheglove

I love canvas, as my main area is weddings I dont often do large prints but when I do they are generally canvas, on the rare occassion that they are not Id go to Steve and get a print with a textured laminate, hes affordable with high quality. I have a large printer myself to do my own canvasses but I dont use it for prints too often and with a large print I like to get a nice texture on it.

On the framing, yes that is quite important, I have framed some images myself, higher end ones being bought from photography suppliers but my favourite so far was a canvas brought to the local framer to have framed specifically to suit the canvas itself. A framers eyes in my opinion are better than my own, as I may have an image in my head of what I would like but he would know just by looking at the image just exactly what would suit it.

Fajitas!

To be honest, I think most digital canvas' look cheap and tacky. If a client wants, then fair enough, but I think there's nothing like high quality paper for impact.

That said, I've seen some canvas prints done in the darkroom with Liquid Light, and they looked beautiful.

humberklog

I'm very interested in the advice you get here ACD as I've been looking into a number of different printing techniques and the result per buck. Needlesstosay I'm starting cheap but had a chat with Stevestc on Saturday about a higher quality and I'm going to treat myself in the next week or two to a better standard, higher price and juxtapose the results with both my eye and if it'll sell at higher price.

But I did ask some printers about canvas and to a man/woman I got the same response...canvas is chavtastic. Is canvas...well...common?
I appreciate what Fajitas! said but in fairness he talks about stuff of a higher quality, or style or indeed stature that I wouldn't think I'm achieving. But for good enough shots that peole like...is canvas a bit chavvy?

democrates

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/index.html test combinations of ink and stock for permanence, when you see >400 years for Epson Ultrachrome K3 ink on 'Epson Velvet Fine Art Paper' versus 65 years for the same ink on 'Canson Infinity Rag Photographique Duo' it's quite clear the ink and stock should be paired carefully at the high end...

democrates

humberklog wrote: »

But for good enough shots that peole like...is canvas a bit chavvy?

Could be, I maintain a bit of a chav streak so like canvas and still periodically enjoy beans on toast, reminds me of the vinyl roof on my dad's old Cortina for the convertible effect - that latter word may be the most used in an Argos catalogue, wood effect, gold effect, brass effect, all frikken plastic.

Still, from a business perspective what matters most is that customers are happy to order and pay, like in the music biz if the Spice Girls is what they really really want instead of Offenbach or Machito so be it, profit = revenue - costs

katiemaloe

I like nice matt photo paper. I hate white borders. Simple clean printing, done well. I saw some beautiful prints that my friend did herself with a heavy, completely flat matt paper. Stunning for black and whites, with no poxy borders or signatures. The picture speaks for itself. I also agree with fajitas! about good framing and mounting. So important as it really presents a photo nicely when its done well.

I hate canvas with a passion. I print loads of it in work and have yet to see one that I like. The texture does nothing for a photo. I hate it so much and seem to get a constant stream of bad photos to be printed up to huge sizes, and then stretched and mounted over a wooden frame. Can't stand the stuff and it seems to be very fashionable at the moment. :eek:

Fajitas!

katiemaloe wrote: »

Can't stand the stuff and it seems to be very fashionable at the moment. :eek:

Very much so - It's the photographic equivilent to leggings on people who should never wear leggings.

FX Meister

Anything of decent size I've had printed I've gotten done on Hahnemuhle paper. I also believe that if you use a cheap frame it takes away from the final product a lot. As for printing on canvas, most of the time it doesn't look good and ends up looking cheap.

padocon

I have some pictures on canvas, but I find that when you use canvas the shot looses detail. I love the look of the gallery wrapped canvas though.

Valentia

I use Archival Matt for most of my stuff. I print my own and the Epson 2100 is not the best with gloss anyway. I should really experiment a bit more with fibre based papers.

As foe canvas: YUK!! It's so 60's. I don't think I have ever seen a photograph that was given justice by putting it on canvas. Avoid I say.

stcstc

as already pointed out

whilhelm research is a very good place to find figures

ALTHOUGH

they are all based on accelerated testing and therefore no one actually knows, this stuff aint been around long enough

My fave papers at the moment would be photorag pearl, fine art bayrata, and bamboo


there are much more esoteric things too, like aluminum

as for canvas, i aint fussed on ith either way, but recently had a pro photog in with me, who had a client asking for canvas. the photog didnt like canvas at all but when she saw the prints i did said actually thats the first time i have seen one i like.

the trick with papers etc is to find 3 or 4 you like and just stick to those. if you look at how many are actually on the market and actually how few actual paper manufacturers there are and even less coating plants int he world (around 4) then you start to realize a lot of these papers are a marketing exercise.

sineadw

Anyone got some reading material they can recommend on this? And printing in general actually. Its an area I'm realising I know pretty much zilch about. Gunns and Steve make it too easy :pac: I need to start working on it though.. Got a lot of printing to do for next semester.

AnCatDubh

B/W, Sepia Tone, or Colour - does this influence your choice of paper?

(as you can see like sinead I've never previously given it much thought and am starting to educate myself).

smelltheglove

Personally I used to agree with the whole consensus here about canvas but more recently I have come to like it. When printed on high quality canvas and when properly edited to suit the size the effect can be quite lovely.

To be honest the way I see it is the majority of my clients specifically request canvas therefore as the largest seller it is offered to all.

As for the black and white, I use cottonwhite canvas to ensure that the whites are whites, for paper I am not too sure, lustre is the most recommended to me by suppliers anyway.

stcstc

B&W and sepia tend to work on diff papers


for example fine are bayrata is stunning for B&W, photorag pearl is very good for sepia

katiemaloe

stcstc wrote: »

My fave papers at the moment would be photorag pearl, fine art bayrata, and bamboo


there are much more esoteric things too, like aluminum


the trick with papers etc is to find 3 or 4 you like and just stick to those. if you look at how many are actually on the market and actually how few actual paper manufacturers there are and even less coating plants int he world (around 4) then you start to realize a lot of these papers are a marketing exercise.

I saw some gorgeous photos printed on aluminium and it looks brilliant. Especially with a colourful, punchy abstract kind of shot. Id love to see the results on those other papers you mentioned. I might treat myself to a nice print on one some day soon!

Sorry smelltheglove, we will have to disagree on the canvas. I especially hate the white cotton canvas. Its so bright and seems to have no tone. I get asked to print photos on this everyday. And loads of them are extreme close ups of a baby's face to be stretched and mounted. People don't seem to understand that you can't mount a face shot when there isn't enough background. It ends up looking like sponge bob square face!

That bamboo sounds really interesting.. what is the texture like? Is it really expensive to get done?

stcstc

bamboo is one of the hahnemuhle papers

not actual bamboo, but its very nice, a little like photorag pearl, but slightly more texture

smelltheglove

katiemaloe wrote: »

Sorry smelltheglove, we will have to disagree on the canvas. I especially hate the white cotton canvas. Its so bright and seems to have no tone. I get asked to print photos on this everyday. And loads of them are extreme close ups of a baby's face to be stretched and mounted. People don't seem to understand that you can't mount a face shot when there isn't enough background. It ends up looking like sponge bob square face!

I suppose it has grown on me, I think as I print them myself I am now used to what tweaks need to be made in order to make it look its best. I do agree about the close ups, I always comment on this myself to clients when they want a close up picture, people seem to forget that they are loosing part of the image on wrap around but the 99% of the time I will take photos slightly wider than what I like to allow for this too so if the final image is slightly cropped I have the original raw to go back on if the image is to be printed as a block canvas.

Calina

I tend to prefer the non-glossy papers especially for sepia and bnw. I have a couple of nice pearl papers from Hahnemuhl somewhere. But I haven't printed anything in ages.

katiemaloe

These hahnemuhle papers sound beautiful. I've never heard of hem before so I'll have to check them out. Cheers for all the info stcstc!

stcstc

katie

you should ring one of the dealers, like sheldon photo in malahide, and buy one of the sample packs, it has about 20 A4 sheets in it of various diff papers

katiemaloe

Thanks for that! That sounds great Ill let you know how I get on.

CabanSail

I ask Steve to look at the images & advise which paper would suit them the best. It has been Pearl most of the time & I am happy with the results.

BTW Steve .... That Bride Portrait photo printed really well. Looks so much better than the digital image. Thanks.

AnCatDubh

Ok, so with the paper choice all sorted, do you tend to print to the edge (full bleed?) or does your image get printed inside the surface area.

The reason I ask this is that I saw a link which was posted earlier via twitter had prints with a page surface larger than the printed area.

Perhaps there is a convention that i'm unaware of with when you would or when you wouldn't or maybe its just the artist's choice?

What do you think?

stcstc

i never print to the edge, although not certain that what you asking

large format inkjets have probs right at edges, and so it aint worth it i just use a bigger bit of paper

AnCatDubh

right, but if you are printing a 12x12 image for someone, is the product that you deliver just that ie. 12x12, or is there another part of the market that would expect the 12x12 printed on 16x16 paper (printed image in center).

stcstc

ya well it kinda depends on the client


and normally images are being mounted etc, so it actually handy to have say 1/2 inch all round extra