Is it time for variable speed limits

Colm R

Very early this morning, the M2 was in a bad way. I figured the appropriate speed limit was between 40 and 60 km/h. About half of the drivers agreed with me and the other half simply thought that there was nothing unusual about this morning. Some of those people duly ended up crashed on the side of the road, including a guy in a landrover who drove only a matter of a few feet behind me until he got the chance to overtake, and got past me only to break hard on some ice and come to a stop in the hard shoulder facing the wrong way.

I've driven this route in heavy fog before and seen some crazy things as well.

A few weeks ago I drove on the M8 during the heavy rains we had and at one stage, had to slow down to 40km/h because of poor visibility and just simply too much water on the road. Some people again thought I was doing the right thing and others thought it was ok to drive on at 120km/h +.

I'm not advocating the lowering of the speed limit. I'm well able to drive at 120 for long journeys.

But if something goes wrong, 120 is a lethal speed. And its all well and good slowing down, but its only safe if everyone does.

So the question is, is it time to accept that we will always have people who won't drive appropriately, and place electronic signs along motorway network with signs that turn on when people should drive slower?

corktina

yes it is..north cork was dreadful this morning but that didnt stop a woman in a focus driving up my ar...i mean bumper....and a guy in a Mondeo overtaking and flying off up the road..if people have no common sense then the authorities will have to treat them like children.

Carawaystick

Colm R wrote: »

So the question is, is it time to accept that we will always have people who won't drive appropriately, and place electronic signs along motorway network with signs that turn on when people should drive slower?

No. People should figure out what is safe themselves. People who can't figure this out shouldn't be driving.
Unsafe driving should be prosecuted. People who crash should be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention - single car,single occupant accidents are proof of this in and of themselves.

How would a reduced speed limit stop the muppet tailgating you?

Absurdum

Most people are complete idiots, it would be an expensive waste of time unfortunately.

Zoney

Yep, time for people to realise that they should only drive at a safe speed. While people are at it, they could figure out the oh so complex idea of staying far enough behind the car in front. Nevermind poor driving, it shows a great ignorance of basic physics.

L1011

VSL isn't used for controlling speed in weather conditions anywhere I can think of. I've been on the M25 in extreme rain/spray conditions, in the dark (the M25 isn't fully lit, or at least not to the standards the non-building-site bits of our M50 are) with NSL signs shining out from the VSL gantries.

Its used to smooth out traffic flow in congestion and to slow people down for accidents ahead; not to make people go at the speed an operator in a control room nowhere near the road thinks its suitable.

I could see this being implemented here with a sensor flicking on "60" signs on the gantries as soon as it hits 3c, that'd be infuriating on a dry cloudless autumn night on the M2...

Cookie_Monster

proper driver education would be a better and probably cheaper solution

I.S.T.

I think some peoper driver training is the real solution. I don't recall being taught anything about driving in fog/ice in my driving tuition. Also there are so may drivers on the road who have never even taken a test!

ceret

Yeah there should be VSL for bad weather conditions. I think France has this. The speed limit on motorways is 130kmph normally, but 110kmph in rain.

chewed

If all these muppets end up crashing and doing 360 spins, surely that's the best way they'll learn not to speed in adverse weather conditions!

BrianD

Well it would seem that the new gantries on the M50 have placeholders for variable speed limit signs or lane/open close signs (probably the same screen can do both).

The only way it would work would be to fit speed cameras in the next gantry but that would mean that the speed limit would have to the same at the next gantry and os on.

Bunnyhopper

Carawaystick wrote: »

People who crash should be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention - single car,single occupant accidents are proof of this in and of themselves.

Seems so often to be the case that a fatal accident in the small hours turns out to be yet another "no other vehicle was involved". It makes you wonder how many other similar accidents go unrecorded because someone crashed but got lucky and didn't kill themselves. There's probably a few exceptions to this though - councils failing to indicate temporary road surfaces, diesel spills, etc.

chewed wrote: »

If all these muppets end up crashing and doing 360 spins, surely that's the best way they'll learn not to speed in adverse weather conditions!

Fair point - but I'd rather not be the poor soul who gets caught up in the middle of one of their high-speed lessons.

VSL seems like a good idea if it could be implemented properly, but without enforcement it'd be as useless as a lot of other legislation. Careless and dangerous driving are already illegal but it sounds as if people are getting away with that as it is. Improved enforcement and better training for all road users would be a good start.

lotusflower

Did a thing in physics in college before and by studying traffic patterns for roads (i didn't have to do it thankfully) turns out there are "traffic waves" Apparently some countries have it right and change the speed limit every few metres (maybe longer) The speed can go up or down but anywho if everyone actually adheres to it , there shouldn't be much traffic

BrianD

Is there any issues with legislation? Is variable speed limits covered or does it become another mess for the courts full of motorists refusing to take their punishment?

In Australia they cover VSL's on roads with an advance sign stating "Speed Limit X kmh unless indicated on variable signs" or words to that effect. This puts an upper limit on the road in the event that VSL signage does not work.

Carawaystick

BrianD wrote: »

Is there any issues with legislation? Is variable speed limits covered or does it become another mess for the courts full of motorists refusing to take their punishment?
.

they have them in the underground section of the M50.

csd

The working group that looked into metricating Irish speed limits specifically recommended against variable limits. Their argument was that drivers should always drive at a speed appropriate to the conditions. As others have alluded to here, this ignores the congestion avoidance benefits of VSLs, so I agree maybe it's time to look at this again.

The speed limit signs in the M50 Port Tunnel section are officially described as "Tunnel Speed limit signs" in the legislation, and I don't think they can legally be used outside tunnels. Which is a shame. it means that if the proposed VMSs on the M50 are to have any legal bearing (or any useful effect), the legislation will have to be updated.

/csd

godtabh

the current speed limits aren't enforced what makes you think variable ones will?

rubensni

csd wrote: »

The speed limit signs in the M50 Port Tunnel section are officially described as "Tunnel Speed limit signs" in the legislation, and I don't think they can legally be used outside tunnels. Which is a shame. it means that if the proposed VMSs on the M50 are to have any legal bearing (or any useful effect), the legislation will have to be updated.

Wow, you learn something new everyday! The legislation talks of "a variable message speed limit traffic sign that may be used in a road tunnel to indicate the speed limit that applies" (SI 637/2006).

As it's a SI presumably it wouldn't be a big job to draw one up for the M50 as well, but it was a bit short sighted. Oh well, that's Ireland :rolleyes:

csd

godtabh wrote: »

the current speed limits aren't enforced what makes you think variable ones will?

The VSLs in the UK generally seem to be accompanied by speed cameras. You'd have to do something like that here to gain compliance.

/csd

Victor

rubensni wrote: »

Wow, you learn something new everyday! The legislation talks of "a variable message speed limit traffic sign that may be used in a road tunnel to indicate the speed limit that applies" (SI 637/2006).

As it's a SI presumably it wouldn't be a big job to draw one up for the M50 as well, but it was a bit short sighted. Oh well, that's Ireland :rolleyes:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0637.html

101sean

The M25 Surrey section with VSLs has speed cameras on every 4th or 5th gantry and they are fairly effective in regulating speeds in congestion.

Most UK motorways have an extensive network of VMS signs and gantries which can display advisory speed limits in bad weather, accidents etc. They had a bad reputation for mis-information, often displaying lane closures hours after the problem has cleared. Seems to have improved lately, when not in use they now display time to next major interchange.

Can't see that level of infrastucture spending to provide VMS happening here outside of the M50.