Garage seriously taking the p1ss

eth0_

Early last week my hyundai accent began leaking directly under the pedals. I did a lot of detective work, ruled out door seals or roof leaks. I narrowed it down to the grille panel directly below the windscreen wipers where the car draws in air for the cabin.

To test my theory, I duck taped heavy plastic over this grill and left it during the heavy rains last week. There was no leak.

Brought it to a garage in Drogheda last Thursday at 9am, explained to the receptionist (no mechanic around to deal with me) what I had done, made it clear that the car was parked facing down a 45 degree angle driveway when the leak occured, made clear that there was NO leaks happening when driving on non-rainy days. Explained why the air grill was blocked off with plastic and duck tape.

Friday evening I go to collect it. "We repaired a hole in the floor, that's where the water was getting in. So that's two hours work...."

Me - WTF. Explain that i'm really unhappy that a> no one called to get the full story from me (receptionist simply wrote 'leak in drivers footwell' in the work book) get me to authorise this work b> they ignored what I had told them c> I refused to believe they had fixed the leak and asked the foreman to go out and pour a jug of water into the grille to prove he had fixed it.

He of course refused to do this and said he'd personally look at the car and ring Monday morning.

Of course no one has called. So I rang and the receptionist has no idea if the car has been fixed, said she would check and call back. An hour later - no call.

I'm really worried these people are messing me around. It does not take FIVE DAYS to replace a seal - i'd have done it myself in a few hours if I had the tools! And what am I supposed to do if they try to charge me for repairing this alleged hole (I didn't see any damage to the floor of the car when I looked under the carpet to determine where the leak was coming from)?


I need my car back!

8vjohn

Main dealer?
Is there a pollen filter in these cars?
I'd be checking the small drains aren't blocked and overflowing into the pollen filter and then into the cabin.

Hal1

I would check if the pollen filter was fitted correctly. If it's not sealed down it will allow water in through the bulkhead, which will end up in the footwells.

eth0_

8vjohn wrote: »

Main dealer?
Is there a pollen filter in these cars?
I'd be checking the small drains aren't blocked and overflowing into the pollen filter and then into the cabin.

No, it's a local garage. I'm unemployed and thought a local business would be cheaper than a Hyundai dealer. I checked the drains. It has to be a cracked or rotted seal, or damaged drains.

Anyway, that's irrelevent, my problem is that they're taking 5 days to fix a simple issue and trying to BS me by saying a car parked face down on a 45 degree angle in heavy rain was getting an inch or two of water build up in the footwell "because there was a hole in the floor of the car" - a hole that, as I said, I did not see when I took the carpet up!

I need to know what my rights are - surely a mechanic should get verbal agreement from the customer before they do any work?

eth0_

Hal1 wrote: »

I would check if the pollen filter was fitted correctly. If it's not sealed down it will allow water in through the bulkhead.

The pollen filter in the accent is on the passenger side, though.

I'm really frustrated here, I don't know if they're taking the mick because i'm a woman or because the car has UK plates (I just moved back from the UK) or what...i'm really upset about the whole thing and have no idea what to say to them, especially if they try to charge me for 'fixing' a seemingly non-existent hole.

8vjohn

Did they point out this "hole" to you?

eth0_

8vjohn wrote: »

Did they point out this "hole" to you?

Conveniently the mechanic who did the work was not available. They rang the body shop (up the road from the main garage) and I spoke to the foreman.
I told him what I had done to rule out water coming in the door/window/floor. I asked him if there was a hole in the floor how on earth would 1-2 inches of water build up - sure it could just flow out this 'hole' once the rain stopped. I also invited him to come down to my car and pour a jug or two of water into the grille and let's see if the car stays dry. He declined and said he would personally look at the car himself over the weekend.

8vjohn

The water can still flow into the pollen filter and make it's way down through the ducting to the footwell.

Saying that there could well have been a grommit missing in the bulkhead, letting in water during the floods.
Are they charging you hard for all this?

Darragh29

eth0_ wrote: »

Early last week my hyundai accent began leaking directly under the pedals. I did a lot of detective work, ruled out door seals or roof leaks. I narrowed it down to the grille panel directly below the windscreen wipers where the car draws in air for the cabin.

To test my theory, I duck taped heavy plastic over this grill and left it during the heavy rains last week. There was no leak.

Brought it to a garage in Drogheda last Thursday at 9am, explained to the receptionist (no mechanic around to deal with me) what I had done, made it clear that the car was parked facing down a 45 degree angle driveway when the leak occured, made clear that there was NO leaks happening when driving on non-rainy days.

I think your diagnostic approach here is a bit compromised. I've highlighted above where you stated that you ruled out a leak from door seals and a leak from the roof. However you didn't state that you ruled out a leak coming up from the floor, which is the most obvious place a leak will come from given the current weather.

Just because you blocked off the grille panel and put water on this area and there was no leak, this does not mean that the leak was not coming in from the obvious place that you didn't think of checking for a leak which was the floor.

Did you put water down around the grille before you blocked it up and see the leak coming into the car with your own eyes and down to the car floor??? Did you take up the upholstery and check under the floor for a leak??? Also if there is a leak coming up through the floor, it will only happen when the car is driving, (due to the water pressure building up under the floor), which makes your stationary test with the blocked up grille completely redundant.

As for your observation above which I've underlined, that no leaks happen on a non-rainy day, surely this is exactly what you would expect on a non rainy-dry day???

eth0_

Darragh, can you please explain to me how rainwater (1-2 inches) could magically hop up into a non existent hole (I already said I took up the carpets to look for holes) and then stay sitting in the footwell for hours after its stopped raining, instead of draining out this imaginary hole? And how would that rain get in there in the first place when the car is parked face down on a 45 degree angle? The rain is just running down the driveway into our drain.

I didn't pour water into the grille myself but after I sealed off the grill I went used the car for two days, driving in heavy rain, car parked in exactly the same position in heavy rain, and there was no leak.

"made clear that there was NO leaks happening when driving on non-rainy days." <-- typo, I meant to say 'when driving through PUDDLES' on non-rainy days - there's a lot of flooding around here.

eth0_

Also Darragh, do you not think it's strange that the foreman himself or one of his mechanics would not come down and humour me, a silly woman who obviously knows nothing about cars, by pouring water into the grille to prove he was right and the leak was gone?

Why wouldn't he do that instead of keeping my car in his garage for an extra three days when he could have used that space in his garage to take in a car with a problem he'll make more money off?

Why had he no answer for me when I asked him how 1-2 inches of water could magically seep in a hole when the car was parked in such a way that rain water was draining off down the hill into a drain?

eth0_

They just rang back and said there was water leaking in the DOOR. First the floor, now it's the door.

I'm going in to collect the car now...armed with a litre bottle of water.

voxpop

What are they trying to charge you ?

Id go down to the garage and ask to be shown what work they did.

Berty

Good luck and keep a cool head.

eth0_

Just back. Again, no mechanic there to speak to. But - no charge! Despite them saying on Friday it'd be 2 hours work.

Make of that what you will.

Darragh29

eth0_ wrote: »

Darragh, can you please explain to me how rainwater (1-2 inches) could magically hop up into a non existent hole (I already said I took up the carpets to look for holes) and then stay sitting in the footwell for hours after its stopped raining, instead of draining out this imaginary hole? And how would that rain get in there in the first place when the car is parked face down on a 45 degree angle? The rain is just running down the driveway into our drain.

I didn't pour water into the grille myself but after I sealed off the grill I went used the car for two days, driving in heavy rain, car parked in exactly the same position in heavy rain, and there was no leak.

"made clear that there was NO leaks happening when driving on non-rainy days." <-- typo, I meant to say 'when driving through PUDDLES' on non-rainy days - there's a lot of flooding around here.

In your OP, there is no mention of you checking for a hole in the floor.

It's very simple how you can have water ending up at the front pedals without a hole being there. When a vehicle is moving, water will tend to travel forward when you brake, due to the water having kinetic energy or momentum/inertia. The hole (or it could be a bad weld or a gap between two overlying sheets of floor pan that has a gap in it that you cannot see, could be in the back seat area or under the drivers seat but the water is crawling forward when you brake.

The only way you can confirm that your diagnosis is correct is to see water leaking into the car from that area, you seem to have arrived at your diagnosis by blocking up this area, and because the leak is not apparent after you doing this, your logic says that this is where the problem is.

I'm not giving out to you, I'm just pointing out that you are not using the right approach when diagnosing this problem.

the_dark_side

nice one... Id ring and give them special thanks etc. Keep in with them, it could just be bad communication from within the company, or that they have a large work-load, and your job didnt cost them a thought

Darragh29

eth0_ wrote: »

They just rang back and said there was water leaking in the DOOR. First the floor, now it's the door.

I'm going in to collect the car now...armed with a litre bottle of water.

These things can be difficult to diagnose, and especially when a customer is coming in and insisting that they have eliminated this that and the other. What should a decent mechanic do??? I think a good mechanic would completely ignore your own attempts to find the problem and start from scratch using their own diagnostic approach, but you'd probably tell me that if I was this mechanic, that I was just trying to run up a labour bill checking for things that you claim have already been eliminated, even though I as a mechanic, just have to assume, regardless of your gender by the way, that your diagnostic ability and experience is this area is probably zero...

eth0_

Darragh - sorry to pull out the gender card earlier, but I was clutching at straws having been without my car for five days.

Would you be happy with the level of customer service i'd received? At no point did a mechanic speak to me until I absolutely insisted. At no point did anyone ring me to advise of the work that had to be done and did I still want it done. They kept my car for a ridiculous amount of time for such a small job.

You know, if the mechanic had just explained to me how water can enter a car through a hole in the floor, I would have said 'fair enough, I didn't realise that. Ok i'll pay for the work but i'll be straight back should the leak reoccur'. I don't think an explanation was too much to ask for. If they had just given that tiny bit of extra customer service then i'd have happily paid on Friday!

And thanks for explaining how a hole in the floor could have been the cause of the leak - appreciated.

Darragh29

eth0_ wrote: »

Darragh - sorry to pull out the gender card earlier, but I was clutching at straws having been without my car for five days.

Would you be happy with the level of customer service i'd received? At no point did a mechanic speak to me until I absolutely insisted. At no point did anyone ring me to advise of the work that had to be done and did I still want it done. They kept my car for a ridiculous amount of time for such a small job.

You know, if the mechanic had just explained to me how water can enter a car through a hole in the floor, I would have said 'fair enough, I didn't realise that. Ok i'll pay for the work but i'll be straight back should the leak reoccur'. I don't think an explanation was too much to ask for. If they had just given that tiny bit of extra customer service then i'd have happily paid on Friday!

Your dead right OP, the model that exists for aftersales at the moment lacks transparency and it has resulted in people being suspicious and cynical and it fails to take account of the need of the customer in 2009 to be educated and kept informed when they are engaging with a garage.

At the end of the day you are paying for a solution. So in theory the problem should be traced, the cost of the work to you should be advised to you before proceeding, and if you give the good to go, the results should be tested and you shouldn't find yourself in a place where you are coming back with the same problem.

Having said that, in a situation such as this, leaks can be tricky to sort out, epsecially at the moment with so much water everywhere...

I can feel your pain here, to spend the time diagnosing this, taking out seats, pulling up carpets, it's actually a bit of a nightmare job... The problem is that sometimes you can have a leak that only occurs when you are going uphill or downhill or around a corner, it's very difficult to replicate these scenario's while spraying water at a car at the same time...