Have we peaked....or is it the beginning?

MikeCork2009

A BBC commentator said today, regarding Austrailia, that this team look like they are gonna peak again right round the World Cup. True or not, it got me thinking, Ireland, Grand Slam, Heineken Cup, Magners League, is 2009 the peak for this team, or with a manager like Kidney, newcomers like Sexton, O'Brien, Kearney, Healy, Humphries, Jones etc. and the experience and passion of players like BOD, ROG, POC, Hayes etc is this just the beginning of a great era for Irish rugby?

corny

It could go either way really. Certainly Ireland, on paper at least, have a lot of young talented players coming through. How they adapt and progress at international level can't really be accurately predicted. The signs are very good though.

handsomecake

peaked i think. im fairly confident they wont win the grand slam back to back

Chucky the tree

There really aren't many players coming through though. Certainly players in the backline who will have any kind of experience.

PCPhoto

only time will tell

we have plenty of successful clubs/players and the infrastructure of training and maintaining the talents of our young players is there for everyone to see.

FAI - take a look and copy the setup ...its a model of how things can work in a sporting industry if MANAGED correctly.

tolosenc

Will we be #3 in the world on Monday? The website gives a rough indication of how points are calculated, but does anyone know the specifics?

uberwolf

3 players on the field when we beat the world champions had two caps each. IMO, that suggests that we're regenerating.

All for nowt if we can't replace Hayes.

subfreq

Ireland will hit a first peak next November if Sexton stays in the team but that is OK. You want a team to find it's potential before the major tournament and then back off a bit. The two AB games next season will be the summit and I really think they will win one of them.

I think the first twenty minutes against SA showed the understandable lack of chemistry between Sexton and O'Leary. Both kicked pretty poorly from hand but that improved as the game went on. Imagine where they will be in a years time.

Crash

Will we be #3 in the world on Monday? The website gives a rough indication of how points are calculated, but does anyone know the specifics?

Nope, we'll be in fourth. Oz's win over Wales keeps them a bit ahead of us.

twinytwo

handsomecake wrote: »

peaked i think. im fairly confident they wont win the grand slam back to back

really... i dont think so... now that we have a second fly half.. only problem for us is france next year. both wales and england are all over the place. if we dont win the grand slam id say we have the best chance of winning the six nations

d'Oracle

PCPhoto wrote: »

only time will tell

.

This, but also, I don't think Ireland played well all year.

Controversial I know, but I don't think we had a really good game through the Grand Slam and there was no point where we were really good in the Autumn Ints (but that could be down to the Ghey rules)

I think there is massive room for improvement and the talent to improve, but we could just go to the dogs too..:D

old boy

the key to a very succesful team is competition for places, this is begining to happen here thankfully,

LumpyChicken

Ban me if you want but handsomecake is a ****ing tool. It is supporters like him who annoy the living **** out of me. So far all he has done is put down a tremendous win with underhand sniping and pedantic mutterings. Constant negativity, it must kill a pessimistic **** such as himself to see this Irish team do itself justice.

OldJay

One game at a time, folks.

PhatPiggins

d'Oracle wrote: »

This, but also, I don't think Ireland played well all year.

Controversial I know, but I don't think we had a really good game through the Grand Slam and there was no point where we were really good in the Autumn Ints (but that could be down to the Ghey rules)

I think there is massive room for improvement and the talent to improve, but we could just go to the dogs too..:D

I agree and it makes me more confident that they can go further.

This team have the rarest of all qualities amongst Irish teams a winning mentality. One that drives them over the lfinish line even when they are playing poorly.

In 4/5 games this year they were the second best team but they seem to have this " I dont care what the score is, we're the better team and we're going to win regardless"

As an Irishman who supports any Irish team and a witness to too many glorious defeats its a joy to watch.

First of all competition is coming about and any Irish player worth his salt knows where he stands at the moment with Kidney taking such an active interest in Churchill Cups and A games etc. while exposing as many as possible to the senior setup.

A number of young players are coming through, how many will make it and whether there is enough in each position is the question.The likes of D.Ryan,Caldwell,Toner etc. need to start putting their hand up for selection for the future.

Prop situation looks iffy.Buckley is 27/28 now and hasn't come good yet,Court is a decent player not international standard though.Wilkinson is a solid loosehead but has had no international experience yet.Hayes can't go on forever.Seems to be adequate strength in other areas and Kidney is the right man to keep everyone involved in the fold like with Sexton last year when many had turned their back on him.With Ulster going through a bit of a revival again there are a few youngster up there who might play their way into contention.

However I'd be positive we stayed unbeaten all this season while giving great experience to younger players.Kearney,Bowe,Fitzgerald(pre-injury),Earls,O'Leary,Ferris,Sexton,Healy,Heaslip etc. have all fitted into the Irish team very well and some of those players seem like they have been there for years despite having under 10 caps at the end of last season.Kidney is bringing players through and there is such a solid core there as well its good to be positive.

Also look at our injury list over the Autumn: Horan,Best,Leamy,Fitzgerald,G.Murphy and Wallace and Ferris went off yesterday.Thats a lot of quality players.Jerry Flannery had to go pretty much the full 80 the 3 games.Cronin didn't get much of a chance even though he is an exciting prospect but R.Best would have been a top class replacement to bring on in the 2 Autumn games.


We have a lot to work yet and I think the Autumn has shown us trying to vary the game a lot more than the 6n which we won without playing too much exciting stuff.It'll take time for us to strike the balance and the scrum is a serious worry but we have the best head coach in the world and top class specialist coaches.

Next year will be much tougher but we can meet the challenge and this group will relish the opportunity to mix it with the best.

Dempsey

uberwolf wrote: »

3 players on the field when we beat the world champions had two caps each. IMO, that suggests that we're regenerating.

All for nowt if we can't replace Hayes.

I think Irelands success is hinged on finding a quality replacement for him.

Chucky the tree

Chucky the tree wrote: »

There really aren't many players coming through though. Certainly players in the backline who will have any kind of experience.

Fair enough but what experience did Luke Fitzgerald or Rob Kearney or Keith Earls etc. have when they came in.I know what you're saying in that the likes of McFadden,Jones etc. aren't getting a real run at it at provincial level.The likes of Cave in Ulsteris getting regular ML,HC and A rugby.

I think McFadden in particular may have to move for a couple of years if his career is to progress.I feel Jones will make the breakthrough in Munster and could take it from there.Others have questionmarks over them, Whitten hasn't really got a chance to push on this year,Fionn Carr seems out of favour with Kidney and has a bit to work on to get his game up a level yet.

There's a few in Leinster the likes of Conway,D.Kearney and Macken who could have the potential to burst on to the Leinster scene and move forward.I haven't seen much of these three though so I'm talking a bit blindly there.

There is probably more on the scene I can't think of but we seem to have a relatively young set of backs as it is.We need these fellas to maintain their form,stay injury free etc. and if we can bring through another 2/3 in the backline that's as strong as any Irish backline will ever be given our playing resources.

GiftofGab

Guys the success as of late is down to the sheer growth of rugby in this country. It's not by luck that we have a talented bunch of players in the squad, rugby in Ireland has grown massively over the last few years.

In Leinster alone the "D4" image is starting to fade and finally we are getting games in areas such as Tallaght.

We are a giant force of rugby and will be for the indefinite future.

At the moment I would put Australia and Ireland as favourites for the next world cup.

Podge_irl

Not winning the grand slam next year is not necessarily a sign of regression. We have a tougher scehdule and France look to be a better team. Besides, even great teams lose occassionally.

Have Ireland peaked? Its impossible to know, but when you consider the likes of Sexton, Healy and Earls were playing against SA then you have to say that there is obviously room for improvement. Despite the victories over the year, Ireland never exactly played spectacularly (except against France).

handsomecake

LumpyChicken wrote: »

Ban me if you want but handsomecake is a ****ing tool. It is supporters like him who annoy the living **** out of me. So far all he has done is put down a tremendous win with underhand sniping and pedantic mutterings. Constant negativity, it must kill a pessimistic **** such as himself to see this Irish team do itself justice.

my goodness.bit harsh chief?

PhatPiggins

handsomecake wrote: »

my goodness.bit harsh chief?

Bit OTT but largely agree with him.

You have a habit of not backing your opinions with credible facts.

Judgement Day

I don't think Ireland have peaked and it's not the beginning of the end of our recent period of success, merely the end of the beginning, this coach and a pool of great players have the 2011 rugby world cup well within their grasp. Hopefully some of the stalwarts like BOD, Paul O'Connell and Jerry Flannery will still be in the squad then and there are some great future stars such as Keith Earls and Johnny Sexton coming through. OK replacing "The Bull" is a major worry but somebody will be found as always. And I don't see why we cannot aspire to back-to-back Grand Slams while we're at it! I know I'm having a punt on it.

PS Thanks to Declan Kidney and all the squad for making life in Ireland worth living despite all the doom and gloom.

handsomecake

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Bit OTT but largely agree with him.

You have a habit of not backing your opinions with credible facts.

i won the boards.ie fantasy super 14.
i correctly predicted mccaw would win world player of the year.
i correctly predicted (in june) that the spring boks would lose at least two on the end of year tour.

i post on planet rugby and i get no hassle.
maybe thats because more then one nationality post on it in equal numbers.

this seems to be a green rose tinted live in love affair with the irish team.
you get chastised for criticising them at all.
i am irish too you know but i see limitations in the team.
maybe i am more of a realist. i dont know.
but i dont abuse posters who disagree with me and expect the same in return.
i dont come on here on a wind up mission.i like rugby.

twinytwo

handsomecake wrote: »

i won the boards.ie fantasy super 14.
i correctly predicted mccaw would win world player of the year.
i correctly predicted (in june) that the spring boks would lose at least two on the end of year tour.

i post on planet rugby and i get no hassle.
maybe thats because more then one nationality post on it in equal numbers.

this seems to be a green rose tinted live in love affair with the irish team.
you get chastised for criticising them at all.
i am irish too you know but i see limitations in the team.
maybe i am more of a realist. i dont know.
but i dont abuse posters who disagree with me and expect the same in return.
i dont come on here on a wind up mission.i like rugby.

relevant how?... there are limitations to the team everyone knows this as no team is perfect. tbh we are still only operating at 80%... maybe you underestimate what the team is capable of?

_blank_

LumpyChicken wrote: »

Ban me if you want but handsomecake is a ****ing tool. It is supporters like him who annoy the living **** out of me. So far all he has done is put down a tremendous win with underhand sniping and pedantic mutterings. Constant negativity, it must kill a pessimistic **** such as himself to see this Irish team do itself justice.

Take a permanent ban.

handsomecake

twinytwo wrote: »

relevant how?... there are limitations to the team everyone knows this as no team is perfect. tbh we are still only operating at 80%... maybe you underestimate what the team is capable of?

because phatphiggins says i dony back up stuff with credible facts.

you cant get more credible then the truth!!!

i said things and then they transpired. i dont need to back them up. they happened!!!

phog

handsomecake wrote: »

peaked i think. im fairly confident they wont win the grand slam back to back

Where does that confidence come from? Ok this year we have to win in London and Paris but I think both Engalnd and France are not picking their best teams or are not playing to the best of their ability. Both can be beaten at home.

Competiton for places should ensure that the team remains fresh. The only position I have a concern for is a replacement for John Hayes, hopefully during 2010 this will be resolved.

handsomecake

phog wrote: »

Where does that confidence come from? Ok this year we have to win in London and Paris but I think both Engalnd and France are not picking their best teams or are not playing to the best of their ability. Both can be beaten at home.

Competiton for places should ensure that the team remains fresh. The only position I have a concern for is a replacement for John Hayes, hopefully during 2010 this will be resolved.

a few reasons.

1. like south africa in the tri nations,we went through the six nations without a big injury list.our big players were ever present.o driscoll,o connell,hayes,o gara.you saw what happened to south africa without botha ,their lineout crumbled.
2.if any of the above get injured we have nothing to replace at outside centre,lock,and tighthead.partly due to eddie o sullivans lack of blooding youth.
3.beauxis will be back for france and bar injury he will be their starting fly half for years.he is class
4.england are due to get a whole host of players back and could drop goal their way to beating you under the current rules.
5.the welsh and scots will be no push overs either.lee byrne and gethin jenkins to return is massive.

twinytwo

Des wrote: »

Take a permanent ban.

oh snap!

twinytwo

handsomecake wrote: »

a few reasons.

1. like south africa in the tri nations,we went through the six nations without a big injury list.our big players were ever present.o driscoll,o connell,hayes,o gara.you saw what happened to south africa without botha ,their lineout crumbled.

Even if botha had been there we would still have won.. Also in reality not have x or y player is not an excuse for losing a game.You put out the best 15 you have at the time. it is either good enough or it isnt.

2.if any of the above get injured we have nothing to replace at outside centre,lock,and tighthead.partly due to eddie o sullivans lack of blooding youth.

we do they may not be as good as the players injured but we would have to make due..could we win without them maybe yes maybe no we wont know.

3.beauxis will be back for france and bar injury he will be their starting fly half for years.he is class

Not much relevence he is no wilkinson or carter and with france being france they will either play to win or dont play

4.england are due to get a whole host of players back and could drop goal their way to beating you under the current rules.

Even when they get their players back the entire english set up is a mess johnson should be ousted how anyone can expect a guy with zero experience to be able to handle a national team is beyond me... had it not been for wilkinson england would have been obliterated and the main problem is johnson if they get a quality manager then i may reverse my opinion

5.the welsh and scots will be no push overs either.lee byrne and gethin jenkins to return is massive.

No they are not a pushover but then neither are we. We have also been consistent against them since 03 every year we have gotten better except for that period between 07/08 when the **** hit the fan.

You also can never underestimate an irish team

irishbucsfan

handsomecake wrote: »

a few reasons.

1. like south africa in the tri nations,we went through the six nations without a big injury list.our big players were ever present.o driscoll,o connell,hayes,o gara.you saw what happened to south africa without botha ,their lineout crumbled.
2.if any of the above get injured we have nothing to replace at outside centre,lock,and tighthead.partly due to eddie o sullivans lack of blooding youth.
3.beauxis will be back for france and bar injury he will be their starting fly half for years.he is class
4.england are due to get a whole host of players back and could drop goal their way to beating you under the current rules.
5.the welsh and scots will be no push overs either.lee byrne and gethin jenkins to return is massive.

I understand that the Grand Slam will be much tougher for us to achieve this year, and so it's very easy to say it is likely we won't win it, however I don't understand how, as a supporter of Irish rugby, that inspires confidence in you.

Why not look at what we will be able to achieve next year instead of claiming we won't pull off one of the toughest achievements in international rugby. For example, can we start to look forward towards 2011, and ensure we have all our possible partnerships tested out. Can we sort out our set pieces and grab some confidence from them? There's loads this team can do this year to move forward. If we can do that then we haven't peaked.

Why not look for positives, instead of negatives? :cool:



EDIT: Also, we have D'Arcy to step in at outside center, and Cullen/Casey to step in at lock. All are international standard in my opinion

stephen_n

Very hard to tell at this stage, we are as Kidney said after the Figi game building a squad and have another 2 years to do that the 6 nations this season will tell a lot but I think this current team still have bigger performances in them but the squad as a whole should be much stronger by the next RWC

gcgirl

I think we can build on what we have I am very positive we have some brill players coming through all provinces and things can only get better, Its a brill turnover when you consider how bad things were back in the 90's !! And also The ladies have been performing excellently with their best finish @ the 6 nations!!