How did Ireland lose to Namibia twice in 1991?

Pisco Sour

I've always wondered this but never thought of asking for some reason. I was too young at the time (didnt start watching rugby until 1995) so I've absolutely no idea as to the reasons we lost to Namibia TWICE in 1991 (15-6 and 26-15). Anytime I've seen Namibia play over the last 10 years or so they have been nothing but cannon fodder, so how on earth did we lose to them twice? Was their team much better back then? If so then why?

Elbows

Surely the more pertinent question is how much worse were we in 1991. I do believe they were a lot better back then - competed in the Currie Cup etc - but have no specifics

Pisco Sour

Elbows wrote: »

Surely the more pertinent question is how much worse were we in 1991. I do believe they were a lot better back then - competed in the Currie Cup etc - but have no specifics

We were poor of course back then but later that year nearly knocked out that wonderful Australian team with Lynagh, Campase, Far-Jones etc out of the World Cup.

I find it amazing that we lost to them twice.

Blisterman

I'd imagine Ireland wasn't playing their best side that day.
You can see the squad for the tour here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ireland_rugby_union_tour_of_Namibia

Anyone who can remember 1991 tell us whether or not that was a good side?

KevIRL

A lot was down to awful awful organisation by the IRFU for the tour. Brendan Fannings book 'From Here to There Irish Rugby in the Professional Era' tells the tale of some of the goings on. I read it some years ago and its a good description of the state we were in which ultimately ended up with the Lens debacle against Argentina some years later.

Pisco Sour

KevIRL wrote: »

A lot was down to awful awful organisation by the IRFU for the tour. Brendan Fannings book 'From Here to There Irish Rugby in the Professional Era' tells the tale of some of the goings on. I read it some years ago and its a good description of the state we were in which ultimately ended up with the Lens debacle against Argentina some years later.

But the Lens debacle was against a very decent team. It still doesnt explain how Namibia were so good back then (well, relatively good) when you look at how appalling they are these days. Were they loaded with foreigners in their team or something?

KevIRL

Article below from The Belfast Telegraph gives a good account of the goings on

A combination of extremely amatuerish organisation, and poor play from the irish team added up to the defeats..

My Namibia nightmare

As Ireland prepare for their opening World Cup game against Namibia, Ulster hero Keith Crossan relives his unhappy memories of the minnows



It remains one of the most embarrassing episodes in Irish rugby history. So painful that former Ulster and Ireland wing Keith Crossan has attempted, subconsciously or not, to eradicate all memories of it.

It was the summer of 1991 and Ireland, as part of their preparations for the World Cup that autumn, undertook a two-match tour of Namibia, a nation that had only just been recognised by the International Rugby Board the previous season.

Previously Namibian players had played in South Africa's Currie Cup and if, good enough, could represent the Springboks.

Their rugby independence came too late for Namibia to qualify for the World Cup in 1991 but hardened by regular, tough competition in the Currie Cup, they won their first 10 Test matches, including two wins over Italy, five victories over Zimbabwe and one against Portugal in Lisbon.

And, remarkably, two Tests against Ireland. Up until 2003, when Ireland gained revenge with a crushing 64-7 victory in the World Cup pool match in Sydney, Namibia were the only country in world rugby to hold a 100 per cent record against Ireland.

Not even the mighty All Blacks could claim such a feat, having seen their 100 per-cent win ratio against the Irish spoiled by a 10-10 draw at Lansdowne Road in back 1973.

At the 1991 World Cup Ireland, of course, came agonisingly close to a place in the semi-final when Michael Lynagh's late touchdown cancelled out Gordon Hamilton's stunning try at Lansdowne Road in the seismic quarter-final encounter.

But it was little thanks to the torrid experience the men in green suffered in Africa.

"I think I have subconsciously erased memories of that tour," said Keith Crossan, the former Ireland wing who spent most of the three weeks in Namibia suffering from acute food poisoning.

" We were based in a hotel which at least had a pool but was in the middle of nowhere. It was scorching hot and the grounds were rock hard which took a lot to get used to and seemed rather unusual preparation given that the World Cup was going to be played at home in the autumn when the conditions would be completely different.

"And there was just nothing else to do. We were in camp most of the time.

"Then a lot of people became ill after we went to a barbeque at the hotel. I think we were served antelope but nobody was really sure. It certainly wasn't your usual hamburger and sausages! Just big lumps of meat.

"The next day the toilets got plenty of visiting. We were dying a death for a couple of days coming up to the first Test and with the heat as well, it was incredibly draining. It was hard to get back to any sort of shape.

"For the midweek game in Keetmanshoop against Namibia South Sub Union, we spent the whole day on a bus travelling along a straight road and when we got there nobody spoke to us. It wasn't the most friendly place to go."

Crossan, a Triple Crown winner in 1982 and 1985, however refuses to attach too much importance to the challenging conditions and illness that struck the squad to, Ireland's reverses.

The tourists crashed to a 15-6 defeat in the first Test while the second Test was a 26-15 loss.

" They were a better side than we had expected," added Crossan. " They had a lot of players who had played in South Africa and they were in great physical condition. In better nick than we were. I remember their winger leaving me for dead a couple of times which was embarrassing to say the least.

"It is easy to put it down to the conditions and the food poisoning but we didn't play well."

Crossan is in no doubt Ireland will win convincingly again on Sunday at Chaban-Delmas, but leaves Ireland with a warning garnered from his painful experience in 1991.

"Namibia will be as pumped up as any of the teams," warned Crossan. " They will have some big monster men so the big telling point will be how clinical Ireland are. Everyone can be big and strong, it is about being smarter and having higher skill levels.

"Everyone will expect a big win for Ireland and hopefully that will be the case."

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/my-namibia-nightmare-13473195.html#ixzz0YCgKqYM6

KevIRL

04072511 wrote: »

But the Lens debacle was against a very decent team. It still doesnt explain how Namibia were so good back then (well, relatively good) when you look at how appalling they are these days. Were they loaded with foreigners in their team or something?

You dont get my point, its more a slight on the awful organisation of the blazer brigade in the IRFU during this time period. Even though the game had gone pro, we remained firmly rooted in the amatuerish organisational setup.

Here's the book http://www.gillmacmillan.ie/Ecom/Library3.nsf/CatalogByCategory/88102A146B9F69F68025726D0048846A?OpenDocument It's a great read if you can get your hand on it.

thebaz

the '91 team was a mixed bag, they did better than any other Irish team at the World Cup, a year later a severly depleted Irish team nearly beat the All Blacks down under , playing an amazing game. But they blew hot and cold due to lack of strength in depth, and weaker organization and coaching . At the last World Cup Ireland nearly lost to Georgia - so we still have some way to go before becoming as clinically consistent as the All Blacks

I think the games were played at high altitiude as well allied to pretty much zero prep time left Ireland ripe for the pickings

Pisco Sour

Namibia went on to fail to qualify for the 1995 RWC! Quite amazing to go from beating a Tier 1 team twice to not being able to beat the Ivory Coast!

anonymous_joe

They've actually got a decent team if you allow them to.

South Africa tend to nick the best players from Zimbabwe and Namibia.

They were very good pre-Lions Tour.

mink_man

luck..

Hippo

We were sh1t in those days. Fact.

f1dan

Borders no.2 wrote: »

I think the games were played at high altitiude as well allied to pretty much zero prep time left Ireland ripe for the pickings

Yep, I think I remember reading Neil Francis say that. The games were played at very high altitude and they had no preparation for them.

CatFromHue

also you have to remember that in the amateur days the namibian players would have been in pretty good nick physically speaking. like the old welsh teams that were full of miners!

toomevara

As someone who followed Irish rugby through the mid- 80's and 90's (The Dark Times), losing to namibia in '91 was not even remotely shocking. The IRFU was then an absolute shambles, Keystone Cops, meets Craggy Island and about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. Laughably awful...a car crash in slow motion....

It took Lens,4 years after rugby was declared professional, *shudders,throws salt over shoulder* to turn us around. Its difficult to contextualise it now given rugby's current amazing, miraculous profile but there were times when it genuinely seemed that rugby in Ireland was going swiftly down the tubes....

I suppose we should never forget how far we've come. Just check out the international results for the 91-92 season;

Ireland

V England : lost 38:9.
V Scotland: lost 10:18.
V Wales: lost 15:16.
V France: lost 12:44.
V NZ (1st Test): lost 21:24...a game we, heartbreakingly, should have won, one of those really infuriating boot, bite and bollock performances where we played way above ourselves. You were guaranteed one of these once a season, followed by a massive low. We did go on to ship 50+ to Manawatu the following week.
V NZ (2nd Test): lost 6:59.

That was the reality of Irish rugby and thats why we could easily lose to Namibia...(twice!). Following season we managed one international win...against England at Lansdowne. 17-3 A game which I had the great privilege to be at! It was such an unlikely result that I thought I was dreaming or that someone had spiked me pint.*edit; memory playing me false, we beat the Welsh too.*

Check out the excellent IRFU online archive for more;

http://www.irishrugby.ie/history/css/arch_history.htm

Chucky the tree

Considering we nearly lost to Georgia in 2007 losing to Nambia in 1991 shouldn't be that shocking.

k974

i remember watchin one them tests on tv in 1991, long time ago now, that namibian team would have been full of big strong farmers hardened from playing currie cup, professionalism has closed the gap phyiscally between the top teams, years ago new zealand had a team of hardened rural farmers, whereas australia where rugby was and is still a bit an upper class game, had a lot of doctors etc on the team who couldnt match the nz phyiscally, now its all different.

namibia would have been harder and way more phyiscal than ireland at that time, playing in the currie cup would have ensured that, i suppose put with a pit of orgainsation and playing at altitude against the disorganisation ireland would have had at the time it probably wasnt too much of a surprise.

d'Oracle

Sorry if this has been said already, but were there not a lot of top class players playing for Namibia back then cos no-one would play SA on account of Apartheid?

I.e. players who would have played for SA.

thebaz

Looked a fairly usefull squad - Fitzgerald, Geoghan, Mullins, Mathews, Galwey, Lenihan, Francis, Smith , Popplewell - but there doesn't seam to be a quality out half ?

louthandproud

d'Oracle wrote: »

Sorry if this has been said already, but were there not a lot of top class players playing for Namibia back then cos no-one would play SA on account of Apartheid?

I.e. players who would have played for SA.

Yup that is true, Namibia had quite a decent side at that time relatively speaking, that combined with the well stated above problems with Ireland back then meant it wasn't really a surprise.

Once apartheid ended in ~1991 Namibia returned to their more usual form.

d'Oracle

Two greystones players in the team.

Thems were the days......:D

Son Of A Vidic

I think the main difference between 1991 and today - is consistency. Back then we lose to Namibia and should have beating a great Australian team. That was always the Irish way though, **** when they should win a game and doing ya proud when they haven't a hope. Declan Kidney has brought consistency to the team on a level we've never had before. Long may it last! it's just a pity we didn't have him for the last World Cup though.