Guitar Amp advice?

SeanHurley

I am thinking of getting a Mesa Boogie Roadster Head for the studio. Most reviews of the amp I have read all seem to be great and from my brief experience with the model it seemed indeed to justify the good reviews. Has anyone had any experience with this model or indeed Mesas?

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/roadster/roadster.html

Any advice on a better studio amp? I should note that I would also like to use this for gigs.

Thanks in advance.

Seán

telecaster

I haven't heard that specific amp in action Sean, but a general point - albeit an undoubtedly controversial one - is that the day of the studio amp has been and gone.

Guitar Rig (especially) and other software based processing has meant that you can get for example, a dry strat to sound like any other guitar through any other amp with any mic set up and any historically noteworthy effect included. Better still the option to change the sound entirely without having to re-record the take is something brilliant.

I like an amp as much as the next guy, but unless you have the space and the money it makes little sense to be stocking up a broad range of amps.

I know you are talking specifically about one amp, and I have tangented your topic a little. But if you already have a decent amp for live work, and are looking towards studio expenditure I would focus on software.


Traditionalists take your aim, and do your worst!

SeanHurley

Cheers for reply tele and I do take your point. I bought a Hiwatt combo for live work in May which stopped working a month or so after (mid gig) after a month of the amp going back and forth to the retailer I eventually got a new unit which didn't sound as nice and after a month the reverb stopped working and there has been a huge decrease in volume. CHecked the tubes and everything seems to be fine. So I am looking for my money back and need to replace it with something sturdy and reliable.

This mesa seems to tick both the live box and also the studio box. It is dear mind.

telecaster

How - if at all - did you get around mid-gig amp failure?

trackmixstudio

telecaster wrote: »

I haven't heard that specific amp in action Sean, but a general point - albeit an undoubtedly controversial one - is that the day of the studio amp has been and gone.

Guitar Rig (especially) and other software based processing has meant that you can get for example, a dry strat to sound like any other guitar through any other amp with any mic set up and any historically noteworthy effect included. Better still the option to change the sound entirely without having to re-record the take is something brilliant.

I like an amp as much as the next guy, but unless you have the space and the money it makes little sense to be stocking up a broad range of amps.

I know you are talking specifically about one amp, and I have tangented your topic a little. But if you already have a decent amp for live work, and are looking towards studio expenditure I would focus on software.


Traditionalists take your aim, and do your worst!

B0ll0x!
A miced up valve amp sounds lightyears better than any amp sim.
As for changing the sound later to fit in the mix, I do it all the time. Record a DI of the guitar and you can fire it back into an amp through a re-amp box.

I have a Mesa Triple Rectifier and it is great.
Hear it here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2133088/Aversion%20New.mp3
This is channel 2 on "vintage" drive for main (L/R) guitars and channel 1 on "pushed" for the verses and channel 1 on clean for the drop.
Clean sound isn't fantastic but the drive is to die for.
I also have a H&K Triamp MKII which does everything from fender clean to Mesa drive but it is a very expensive head.
There is a guy on metalireland selling an f-50 head for €600 at the moment.
http://www.metalireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38688
I was very tempted but don't really need it.
I have 5 valve heads already.
You would probably get it off him for €500.
Bargain!
Adverts occasionally has second hand dual recs on it too.

SeanHurley

It wasn't pleasant to be honest We were doing a Phantom First Friday and mid set the amp just stopped working, in a formidable display of crisis management our guitar guy Terry swapped in an amp donated by Royseven who were on after us. It all took about 3 mins to sort but is felt like about 3 hours!!

telecaster

trackmixstudio wrote: »

I have 5 valve heads already.

heh-heh, you certainly weren't going to agree with me so!

Many ways of skinning a dog for making butter

SeanHurley

trackmixstudio wrote: »

Clean sound isn't fantastic but the drive is to die for.

I believe that the clean channel on this particular model is actually quite good. We also have a Fender Twin in the studio that is usually used for clean sounds at the mo.

The guitars sound great in that mp3 btw.:)

i57dwun4yb1pt8

telecaster wrote: »

I haven't heard that specific amp in action Sean, but a general point - albeit an undoubtedly controversial one - is that the day of the studio amp has been and gone.
t!

i havent heard a guitar sim yet that does a better job then a miced up amp , some are great , but the mic and amp is always better.

now , drum samples on the other hand ....

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

telecaster wrote: »

I haven't heard that specific amp in action Sean, but a general point - albeit an undoubtedly controversial one - is that the day of the studio amp has been and gone.

I have only spent a weekend in a studio, we used guitar rig when we recorded the guide track, our 2 guitars and bass playing to a click track. But we used the amps when we were tracking. I didnt notice any difference as my amp is not a proper valve amp (its a hybrid), but it say there would be a big difference if it was. Also i think for palm mutes, its better to mic up an amp, it picks up the lows better as air is pushed into the mic. Heard that some where, correct me if im wrong!

Seziertisch

My biggest gripe with newer amps is that they tend to be quite fizzy for recording, which is ok if you are going the hi-gain route as the amps natural compression when being pushed controls it somewhat. Clean sounds are sometimes difficult to dial in but not impossible with a compromise, while clean just starting to break up is a real problem balancing the gain against the fizz.

I recently recapped (tone and coupling) my Blackstar Artisan with a mixture of Sozo Vintage and foil in oil capacitors. Sweet tone of the gods! Gone is the fizz, replaced with a smooth open pallete of tones. No matter where I set the eq it is never harsh. This is the sound I have been hearing on records all my life but have never been able to achieve. Micing the amp is just an absolute pleasure now, quite literally set the amp up and slap a mic in front of it and it sounds great. With the exception of a small bit of high pass filtering, I don't have to eq it to get the sound to behave the way I want it to.

BumbleB

telecaster wrote: »

Guitar Rig (especially) and other software based processing has meant that you can get for example, a dry strat to sound like any other guitar through any other amp with any mic set up and any historically noteworthy effect included. Better still the option to change the sound entirely without having to re-record the take is something brilliant.

I like an amp as much as the next guy, but unless you have the space and the money it makes little sense to be stocking up a broad range of amps.

I agree with Tele ,used to have an awful lot of classic amps at my disposal .

Then I came across this amp modeller called a gnx4, thought the presets weren't great but then happen to stumble across this guy called Mike who actually mikes up these amps and samples them on a scope and from that makes a preset .I've actually used a real 68 twin and the preset side by side and you would not hear the difference.

I thought that it was pretty good and awful lot of guitarist would ask me what I was using but the real realisation that it was pretty cool was when I was soundchecking at the berklee school of music ,all the students were coming in to play with the gnx4. It might not be everybody's cup of tea but I like it and I know it's going to sound good plus I've brought it five times to the U.S.

I dont have a backline now but if I do, its going to be a TSL.

Seziertisch

BumbleB wrote: »

I agree with Tele ,used to have an awful lot of classic amps at my disposal .

Then I came across this amp modeller called a gnx4, thought the presets weren't great but then happen to stumble across this guy called Mike who actually mikes up these amps and samples them on a scope and from that makes a preset .I've actually used a real 68 twin and the preset side by side and you would not hear the difference.

I thought that it was pretty good and awful lot of guitarist would ask me what I was using but the real realisation that it was pretty cool was when I was soundchecking at the berklee school of music ,all the students were coming in to play with the gnx4. It might not be everybody's cup of tea but I like it and I know it's going to sound good plus I've brought it five times to the U.S.

I dont have a backline now but if I do, its going to be a TSL.

The biggest problem with modelling/sampling software is that it is almost too good, too pristine. If everything else in a track hasn't been recorded in a fully pro studio then software instruments/emulations are sometimes quite difficult to get to sit right/sound believable with other less perfect sounds. Also, generally speaking a lot of rock/pop recordings are all about a hint of grit amongst the sugar (particularly guitar recordings), I have found this to be difficult to achieve using an amp sim and plug-ins, whereas a good sounding amp miked up with a 57 and even a more budget mic pre is so much easier to work with.

fitz

telecaster wrote: »

I haven't heard that specific amp in action Sean, but a general point - albeit an undoubtedly controversial one - is that the day of the studio amp has been and gone.

Guitar Rig (especially) and other software based processing has meant that you can get for example, a dry strat to sound like any other guitar through any other amp with any mic set up and any historically noteworthy effect included. Better still the option to change the sound entirely without having to re-record the take is something brilliant.

I like an amp as much as the next guy, but unless you have the space and the money it makes little sense to be stocking up a broad range of amps.

I know you are talking specifically about one amp, and I have tangented your topic a little. But if you already have a decent amp for live work, and are looking towards studio expenditure I would focus on software.


Traditionalists take your aim, and do your worst!

For flexibility and for the ability to get stuff down without the expense of the real thing, amp sims are great. Go to our website (link's in the sig) and you can hear tracks from the album I made using Guitar Rig 3. I'm quite pleased with the sounds.

However, I've got a ould 70's Sound City with original Partidge transformers that I had converted to be a HiWatt DR103, I've got a Vox AC30 (90's re-issue) and I've got a Mesa Dual Rectifier. Since recording the album, I've gotten a THD Hotplate, a power attenuator which has a line out. Now, I can set the Hotplate to it's LOAD setting, and use that to run any of my amps without speakers, with the line out going direct into my audio interface. Once the signal gets into the box it's onto a channel in Logic with Space Designer loaded up with Orange 4x12 cab impulses created by the generous Trackmix.

The Hotplate setup SMOKES any amp sim I've tried (GR, Amplitube, ReValver). I've got the best of both worlds. Great sounding guitar tracks coming from fantastic sounding amps, and the ability to do it silently at home. Between the AC30, the HiWatt and the Mesa, I've got pretty much all the sounds I could want covered.

Not cheap, but worth it. What would I get if I was starting? I'd get the most versatile amp I could, and go the load-box route. No question.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

DaDumTish wrote: »

i havent heard a guitar sim yet that does a better job then a miced up amp , some are great , but the mic and amp is always better.

now , drum samples on the other hand ....

i now take some of this back - the cab sim fitz mentioned i have just tried and its brilliant , partic for the home user.

JonathanAnon

http://line6.com/spiderjam/

I always liked the concept of combining both the effects and the amp.

Bluebirdstudios

Hi Sean,
I've used and tested a lot of mesa including the Roadstar . My mate is a hugh Mesa fan and he brings up model after model to the studio.
Here's what I think the Roadstar is very flexible and sometimes trying to be too clever - it's possible to get a sound that you love and never find it again.
BUT MY BIG THING WITH MESA'S GENERALLY !! Is the overdrives are voiced slightly honky to my ear . This is nearly across the whole range (except the Lonestar) while it doesn't bother some serious guitar players I know they do admit it's there and for that kind of money I think a better voiced overdrive should be onboard. Now and here is the big ticket -- the mesa's cleans are outstanding everything you want from a clean sound is there open top end, buckets of headroom, tight low end etc..
So there it is
Mesa's clean A++++++
Mesa's drive channels (roadstar included) B (man that honky mid !!)
But again for that money be sure you're happy with their overdrive because it has such a personality you either hate it or love it!
- Dec

PS I'm looking at the Orange range (Rocker verb) which is a fantastic live and studio amp a lot cheaper as well.

Seziertisch

That's interesting about the Mesas. As far as I can tell (based on the bands using them) they excel at scooped mid-range rock/metal tones. Maybe the tone stack is tuned more for those kinds of sounds.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

but if you put the right cab ( or cab impulse on it ) - the honk you describe is going to be negated surely ?

I have played the dry full power hotplate output and compred it to all manner of cab impulses - and I cannot believe how much the cab / mic choice and position change the sound of the dry hotplate output.

a convolver and a good set of cab impulses has to be a serious arsenal for any studio to create the sound they want ,

( or else a range of 5 cabs all miced up with about diofferent 5 mics , repeated at various distances and cone targets.

fitz

The Honky Mids comment is far too generalised.
Cab, Guitar and setting all have an impact on how the Mesa overdrive sounds.
I certainly wouldn't call the sound I get out of mine honky at all.

trackmixstudio

My Triple Rec sounds anything but honky
Mesa's eq is very different to most other amps.
My normal drive eq would be (clock face)
Bass 10
Mid 1
Treb 11
Pres 8
Also the clean sound is sh1te.
Don't know what mesa you were using.
The mark series have a nice Fernderesque clean but most of the heads are high gain one trick ponies IME.

Bluebirdstudios

Hi Mick,
The Mesa's I've tried are : Lonestar special,Stiletto,Dual and Triple Rectifier, Roadking,Mark 1 & IV and Triaxis. All with a no. of different guitars and cabs.
I do agree that your Triple rec clean isn't the best but even mesa will tell you that amp is distortion based amp. Randall makes no bones about that.

But the Lonestar , Stiletto ,Mark 1 and roadking all have great cleans particularly the Lonestar and Mark 1.IMO Have you used these amps ?

The Honky remark was trying to paint a picture of the Mesa overdrive thing Like (Chunky and stiff for Marshall) ( Creamy and singing from Matchless) etc. I used the word as a descriptive term not as a negative. Like I said some heads love that Mesa sound and use the honky word sometimes to describe that . Even Randall Smith has posted replies online to Mesa users re tuning out the honkyness and not losing beef in sound.
This is all opinion based off-course but I had these amps for nearly 3 months so I'm talking about recording and live experience.
Also I noted your EQ settings which is what I found myself doing a lot, was to cut a lot of mid out of the sound to lessen the boxiness and honk out of their overdrives- Are your EQ settings not an example of the Mesa thing I'm referring to. -- That's not being smart but trying to get your view too!

fitz

I quite like the thickness of the Recto's cleans. It's not like an AC30 clean, but it suits a certain sound. Like Trackmix, I've found the Recto's EQ quite different to what you'd expect. It's got it's own thing going on, you need to get to know it a bit to get exactly what you want out of it.

Bluebirdstudios

, I've found the Recto's EQ quite different to what you'd expect. It's got it's own thing going on, you need to get to know it a bit to get exactly what you want out of it.[/QUOTE]

Hi Fitz ,
Ye I agree with the getting to know the Mesa eq - The amps have a learning curve about them for sure.
- Dec

PMI

Ive owned a good few Mesa's over the years from MkIIc to MK3 head & Combo, Studio 22 blah blah....

Your choosing a great amp, I find dual rec's a bit (does what it says on the tin) and not very versatile, but again it really matters about the guitar in the front end....

Have you checked out the roadking? if not do try....

forget about these amp sims... total toy town for any real player.

SeanHurley

PMI wrote: »

Have you checked out the roadking? if not do try....

Yeah the Roadster is a Road King without the Progressive Linkage, same 4 channels on each.

PMI wrote: »

it really matters about the guitar in the front end

I am using a 1975 Telecaster Custom and and Gibson SG3 at mo, looking at getting either a Les Paul Custom or a Gibson Firebird at mo