Lastest report on clerical sexual child abuse and fallout

Nevyn

http://www.newstalk.ie/news/news-headlines/murphy-report-into-clerical-sex-abuse-finds-cover-up-and-protectionism/

Murphy report into clerical sex abuse finds cover-up and protectionism

**Advisory: Article contains graphic details**

The Murphy report into the rape and molestation of 320 children by 46 priests in the Dublin Archdiocese has found the Church and a former Garda Commissioner covered up abuse.

The 700 page report has just been published, it finds 4 Archbishops in Dublin did little or nothing to protect children from paedophile priests.

The Government has just published the report into the handling of clerical child sex abuse in the Dublin Diocese.

The 700 page “Murphy” report details 320 children’s allegations of rape, molestation and sexual assaults against a representative sample of 46 priests between 1975 and 2004.

The reports contents are shocking – it reveals Gardai did not investigate child rape and says the goal of the church was to cover up.

The commission finds one priest raped or molested more than 100 children while another admitted abusing children every two weeks for more than 25 years.

One of the most shocking allegations is that former Garda Commissioner Daniel Costigan was contacted by Scotland Yard in the UK in 1960 and told that the Chaplin of Our Lady’s Hospital for Sick Children had sent photographs of children in sexual positions to the UK to be developed.

The Commission finds that the photographs disappeared after being given to the Gardai and Commissioner Costigan didn’t launch an investigation into allegations of molestation. Instead he held a meeting with then Archbishop, John Charles McQuaid, and allowed the church to investigate alone. Archbishop McQuaid concluded no crime had been committed.

The report concludes that there was not a paedophile ring operating between Dublin priests but some of the trends of abuse between priests who knew each other or were friends was “worrying”.

The Archdiocese of Dublin under Archbishops John Charles McQuaid, Dermot Ryan, Kevin McNamara and Cardinal Desmond Connell was found to have a “Don’t ask, don’t tell” attitude to child abuse.

The Murphy report concludes that one of the biggest tragedies of abuse it found in this investigation was that in these instances, unlike others, children were believed by their parents and some in authority but the Church and Gardai didn’t investigate.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1126/abuse.html

The Commission of Investigation cost a total of €3.6m up to April of this year.

The report rubbishes the view put forward by the church that the abuse was hidden from view and somehow took church authorities by surprise.

It states that the vast majority of priests turned a blind eye to abuse although some did bring complaints to their superiors.

In June and July of 2009, just as it was finalising its work, the Commission became aware of additional information which it states may require further investigation and if necessary the preparation of a final report.

Clerical abuse was covered up

The report states that the Commission has no doubt that clerical child abuse was covered up by the Archdiocese of Dublin and other church authorities.

It states that the structures and rules of the church facilitated that cover-up. It also says that State authorities facilitated the cover up by allowing the church to be beyond the reach of the law.

It claims that the welfare of children, which should have been the first priority, was not even a factor considered in the early days by State and church authorities.

The preservation of the good name, status and assets of church institutions was the first priority, according to the report, which states that priests were seen as the most important members of the institution.

The Commission says that it has identified 320 people who complained of child sexual abuse during the period 1975-2004.

It also states that since May 2004 130 complaints against priests operating in the Dublin Arch Diocese have been made.

The report details the cases of 46 priests guilty of abuse, as a representative sample of 102 priests within its remit.

The report strongly criticises gardaí. It states that senior members of the force regarded priests as being outside their remit and it claims there are examples of gardaí reporting abuse complaints to the Diocese rather than investigating them.

It states that in the 1960s, then Garda Commissioner Costigan's decision to hand one case to Archbishop McQuaid was inappropriate. It also states that the relationship between some senior gardaí and some priests and Bishops was inappropriate.

No direct evidence of paedophile ring

The report says it can find no direct evidence of a paedophile ring existing among priests in the Dublin Archdiocese although it says there were some worrying connections.

The report highlights the case of a Fr Carney and Fr McCarthy whom it claims in one case both abused the same child.

The abuse by Fr Carney often occurred at swimming pools sometimes when accompanied by another priest.

The report states that it was not until 1995 that the Archdiocese began to notify the civil authorities of complaints of clerical abuse.

The Commission concludes that in light of this and other facts every bishop's primary loyalty was to the church itself.

All the Archbishops of the Diocese in the period covered by the Commission were aware of some complaints, according to the report.

The move by the Archdiocese to take out insurance against potential compensation claims arising out of clerical abuse was according to the report an act of proving knowledge of child sexual abuse as a potential major cost to the Archdiocese.

The report running to hundreds of pages details particular priests and the litany of abuse perpetrated by them.

So when are we going to see priest and archbishops up on charges on this?

Will this be the final nail in the coffin and we will see the church ousted from their control of the majority of primary schools in the country?

Will politicians call for a proper break in the relationship between church and state finally?

Handsome Bob

The church will be ousted from their control of the majority of primary schools once the majority of people demand it. Only then will the politicians of this country take action. Simply put, only when non-action means that their future in government is at risk will change happen.

Nevyn

I am sicked tbh that the catholic church looked to take out insurace policies against claims against them.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1126/breaking73.htm

The Commission of Investigation into Dublin’s Catholic Archdiocese has concluded that there is “no doubt” that clerical child sexual abuse was covered up by the archdiocese and other Church authorities.

The commission’s report covers the period between January 1st 1975 and April 30th 2004. It said there cover-ups took place over much of this period.

In its report, published this afternoon, it has also found that “the structures and rules of the Catholic Church facilitated that cover-up.”

It also found that “the State authorities facilitated the cover-up by not fulfilling their responsibilities to ensure that the law was applied equally to all and allowing the Church institutions to be beyond the reach of the normal law enforcement processes.”

Over the period within its remit “the welfare of children, which should have been the first priority, was not even a factor to be considered in the early stages,” it said.

“Instead the focus was on the avoidance of scandal and the preservation of the good name, status and assets of the institution and of what the institution regarded as its most important members – the priests,” it said.

In making its main findings, the report it concluded that “it is the responsibility of the State to ensure that no similar institutional immunity is ever allowed to occur again. This can be ensured only if all institutions are open to scrutiny and not accorded an exempted status by any organs of the State.”

The Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation was set up on March 28th, 2006. It completed its report on July 21st last when it was presented to the Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern.

Since then it has been sent twice to the High Court as there were concerns that publication of its contents in full might prejudice current proceedings against two men who face allegations of abuse and which it had investigated.

Following edits to the report, made by Mr Justice Paul Gilligan, the report was finally cleared for publication last Thursday.

The commission investigated allegations made against a sample of 46 priests, out of a total of 102 relevant to the period, and against whom 320 complaints had been made.

Where individual Archbishops of Dublin were concerned it found that Archbishop John Charles McQuaid - who held office from 1940 to 1972 - did not apply canon law where such allegations were concerned, though he was familiar with its requirements.

His dealings with Fr Edmondus in 1960 “were aimed at the avoidance of scandal and showed no concern for the welfare of children.”

Archbishop Dermot Ryan - who held office from 1972 to 1984 - “failed to properly investigate complaints” against any of the six priests dealt with by the Commission from his period in office. “He also ignored the advice given by a psychiatrist in the case of another priest (Fr Henry Moore) that he had placed in a parish setting.” It found that Fr Moore was subsequently convicted of a serious assault on a young teenager while working as a parish curate.

Archbishop Ryan also seemed to have adopted “a deliberate policy” to ensure that knowledge of problems involving accused priests “was as restricted as possible.” This resulted “in a disastrous lack of co-ordination in responding to problems.”

Archbishop Kevin McNamara - who held office from 1984 to 1987 - restored to ministry a priest, Fr Bill Carney, despite his having pleaded guilty to charges of child sex abuse in 1983 and despite suspicions about him where “numerous” other children were concerned. Fr Carney has since been laicized.

Archbishop McNamara also appointed Fr Ivan Payne, also since laicized, as Vice-Officialis of the Marriage Tribunal in Dublin even though Archbishop Ryan had previously refused to do so.

It was Archbishop McNamara who was first to take out insurance against possible claims for child abuse. He did so in March 1987 and all Catholic dioceses on the island of Ireland followed suit, excepting one.

Cardinal Desmond Connell, who held office as Archbishop from 1988 to April 2004, “was slow to recognise the seriousness of the situation” on assuming office. He was “over-reliant” on the advice of other people. While “clearly appalled by the abuse” it took him some time “to realize that it could not be dealt with by keeping it secret and protecting priests from normal civil processes.”

He showed “little understanding of the overall plight of victims” some of whom found him “remote and aloof” and some “sympathetic and kind.” However, and “on the other hand he did take an active interest in their civil litigation against the Archdiocese and personally approved the defences which were filed by the Archdiocese.”

Liability for injury and damage “was never admitted.” His strategies in civil cases, “while legally acceptable, often added to the hurt and grief of complainants.”

Where auxiliary bishops of Dublin over the period were concerned, the commission found that those who “dealt particularly badly with complaints” were Bishop Dermot O’Mahony (retired) and Bishop James Kavanagh (deceased). It found Bishop Donal Murray (currently Bishop of Limerick ) “also dealt badly with a number of complaints.”

Bishop Murray’s failure to reinvestigate earlier suspicions against Fr Thomas Naughton “was inexcusable.”

It also said the recently retired Bishop of Ossory, Dr Laurence Forristal, “was the only bishop to unequivocally admit in evidence to the commision that he may not have handled matters satisfactorily.”

It found that “there was a disturbing failure to accept responsibility on the part of the bishops who gave evidence. There was a tendency to blame the Archbishop and/or the chancellor” of the archdiocese.

Where the priests of the Dublin archdiocese were concerned, the commission found that “a few were courageous and brought complaints to the attention of their superiors.” However, it concluded that “the vast majority simply chose to turn a blind eye.”

The commission found that “there were a number of inappropriate contacts between the gardaí and the Archdiocese.” It cited the example of Garda Commissioner Costigan who handed over the case of Fr Edmondus to Archbishop McQuaid for investigation in 1960 This was “totally inappropriate”, it said.

“The relationship between some senior gardaí and some priests and bishops was also inappropriate,” it said. “A number of very senior members of the gardaí, including the Commissioner in 1960, clearly regarded priests as outside their remit. There are some examples of gardaí actually reporting complaints to the Archdiocese instead of investigating them.”

The report added, however, that “it is fortunate that some junior members of the force did not take the same view.” The commission was “impressed” with those gardaí involved in the prosecution of Fr Carney in the early 1980s. It “was not impressed” by the 20-year delay in reaching a decision to bring charges against a priest referred to only as Fr X.

Where the health authorities were concerned, it found they had “a very minor role in dealing with child sexual abuse by non family members.” It expressed concern that legislation covering the role of the HSE “is inadequate even for that limited role.”

Nevyn

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1126/breaking61.html?via=rel

How the story of abuse emerged

How the story of abuse in Catholic Church institutions emerged

Ireland Timeline

1987 – Insurance taken out by dioceses around the country to cover them against allegations of clerical child sex abuse.

1987 – The Irish state publishes its first set of guidelines on child abuse.

1988 – Desmond Connell appointed Archbishop of Dublin.

1990 – Irish Catholic Church establishes internal committee (chaired by Bishop of Ossory Laurence Forristal) to assess legal implications for Irish priests of child abuse revelations in the future. No Irish case has yet been made public.

June 1994 – The scandal breaks – Fr Brendan Smith is sentenced to 4 years in prison for abuse of children in Northern Ireland.

October 1994 – Irish Catholic Bishops’ Conference refuses to comment on reports that two Kerry priests were removed from their duties on foot of allegations of child sexual abuse.

November 1994 – Government falls over divisions between coalition partners Fianna Fail and Labour over Attorney General’s handling of extradition requests for Fr Brendan Smith to Northern Ireland.

April 1995 – Andrew Madden is the first victim of clerical child sex abuse to go public. The Irish Press reports that he has received a compensation payment in respect of his abuse as a child.

May 1995 – Archbishop Desmond Connell announces that the archdiocese has never paid compensation to any victim of clerical child abuse. He later explains that the money used to compensate Andrew Madden was a “loan” from the archdiocese to Ivan Payne.

June 1995 – a Dublin priest receives 12-month sentence for child sex abuse; Belfast priest Daniel Curran sentenced to seven years for child sex abuse. A number of other priests charged with abuse during following months.

September – RTÉ Prime Time programme names Ivan Payne as abuser of Andrew Madden. Archbishop Connell threatens to sue over suggestions that he facilitated the compensation payment to Andrew. No case is ever taken.

October 1995 – The Irish Times reports that another Dublin priest paid £50,000 compensation to a man he abused as a child.

November 1995 – Bishops issue fullest apology to date.

November 1995 – Wexford priest Fr Sean Fortune charged with child sex abuse.

January 1996 – Bishops publish new guidelines on child sex abuse cases – The Framework Document, otherwise known as ‘the green book’.

June 1997 – A Dublin priest received an 18-month jail sentence for sexually abusing a young girl during the 1970s.

July 1997 – Fr Brendan Smyth jailed in Dublin for 12 years for abusing children south of the border.

February 1998 – Taoiseach Bertie Ahern announces that mandatory reporting of child sex abuse will be introduced within lifetime of current government. (To date, this has still not happened.)

June 1998 – Irish priest Fr Patrick Maguire (Columban) jailed in London for child abuse (18 months).

June 1998 – Fr Ivan Payne jailed for sexual abuse of eight young boys. His two-year sentence is criticised for being too light.

July 1998 – Fr Gus Griffin (Holy Ghost Fathers) sentenced to seven years for abusing young boys.

July 1998 – Fr Thomas Naughton sentenced to three years for abusing four young altar boys.

March 1999 – Fr Sean Fortune commits suicide on the eve of his trial on multiple charges of child abuse.

June 1999 – Pope John Paul II rejects any linkage between child sexual abuse and priestly celibacy.

September 2001 – retired judge Gillian Hussey appointed by hierarchy to chair Church’s Child Protection Committee. Audit of all dioceses announced.

March 2002 – BBC television broadcasts Suing the Pope on the abuse of boys in the Ferns diocese by Fr Sean Fortune.

April 2002 – Bishop of Ferns Brendan Comiskey resigns in response to evidence that he covered up child sex abuse in his diocese.

April 2002 – Government announces establishment of independent inquiry into child abuse in the Ferns diocese.

June 2002 – Maynooth trustees announce inquiry into allegations of improper behaviour by its former vice-president, Monsignor Micheál Ledwith.

October 2002 – RTÉ’s Prime Time broadcasts Cardinal Secrets on the handling by a number of bishops of clerical child sex abuse allegations in the archdiocese of Dublin.

November 2002 – Government pledges to establish full independent judicial inquiry into Dublin archdiocese’s handling of abuse allegations.

December 2002 – Hierarchy disbands its own national audit committee.

January 2003 – Mervyn Rundle, abused by Fr Thomas Naughton, receives one of largest settlements to date, reported to be over €300,000.

May 2003 – Diarmuid Martin named as successor to Desmond Connell as Archbishop of Dublin.

April 2004 – Cardinal Desmond Connell steps down as Archbishop of Dublin.

October 2005 – Ferns Report is published, detailing extensive child abuse and cover-up.

November 2005 – Judge Yvonne Murphy appointed to head up Commission of Investigation into the Dublin archdiocese.

January 2008 – Cardinal Connell seeks to refuse access by the Commission of Investigation to over 5,000 documents which he claims are confidential. He eventually drops his challenge.

March 2009 – Bishop Magee of Cloyne steps aside from his duties after it is revealed he did not follow proper child protection guidelines. Government extends remit of Dublin Commission of Investigation to examine the diocese of Cloyne.

May 2009 – publication of Ryan Report on widespread abuse of children in Ireland’s institution.

What will it take to get the people of this country to demand accountability?

smokingman

...and it just gets worse...

According to the Commission of Investigation report, “mental reservation is a concept developed and much discussed over the centuries, which permits a church man knowingly to convey a misleading impression to another person without being guilty of lying”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1126/breaking86.htm

Handsome Bob

Thaedydal wrote: »

What will it take to get the people of this country to demand accountability?

It's just my own personal opinion that many people are consumed by self interest. They don't feel compelled to demand change because they fail to relate to these horrific findings to a high enough level where they would feel compelled to act.

metrovelvet

I think people need to read the reports in detail to get angry enough to make a demand.

I read the Ferns report. I read the pain in that for the parents and the victims, and the complicity of the guards and the department of ed.

It is not just the church who should be held accountable, but an entire system.

I for one cannot believe that a Nuremburg style public trial has not been held, and that the Irish have not done what Boston did and drag the church through the criminal courts.

The lack of outrage from the Irish public is still protecting monsters. Until people, open themselves up to seeing what these people did, they will stick their head in the sand.

Feeky Magee

And this is the same organisation still in charge of the education of the majority of our country's children?

Time for a total and utter split between state and church - NOW.

Latchy

The problem has always being that Irish public numbed themselfs to the truth along with the arrogance of individual priests and bishops who saw themselfs above question and the law .

Canon law was their last get out clause but were the truth is outed ,that means jack ****

It took the belief of the abused and their familys in seeking to find justice that we are were we are now .

30 years of lies and arrogance byond belief .Who in their right mind would but their trust in that lot ?

metrovelvet

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/gardai-gave-paedophile-priests-impunity-435909.html

The guardai are as much to blame. They gave the priests impunity.

irish_bob

the guards have always been SMITHERS like in thier reverence towards the mighty in this country , lackeys to the powerfull

Dades

IMO, there are three obstacles to really dealing with this travesty:

(1) Most of the abuse happened decades ago so people have a tendency to think - "it was ages ago, it won't happen again - what's to be gained?"

(2) When the whole system is to blame - Clergy, Gardaí, Politicians - whose head do you shout for when they are all complicit? Will one hold the other fully accountable when it has blood on it's own hands?

(3) Many people still think the church is a magic organisation representing God on earth and would rather hang on to this belief than face up to the insidious organisation that it is.

Rev Hellfire

I doubt we'll see any real change come out of this report, except perhaps within the church itself. The rest of society will be happy to pin the blame squarely on what is a popular scapegoat.

As for change in the school system, the majority simply don't care. Nor more importantly do they have an appetite for one which will potentially cost the taxpayer money.

I'm sure like a lot of people right now, if its going to cost me either directly or in tax's then I'm happy to leave things as they are right now.

happyjack

I think heads should roll, you cant expect evil folks not to be evil, but when the so called good guys protect them, not even the worst criminal would protect a child molester.

It's so true what Einstein said,

"Evil men do not make an evil world, it's when good men stand back and do nothing"

To think that a police force protected child abusers, I can remember when the Gardai stopped calling child molesters by their rightful name, when Priests started going to jail, then they started coming up with the word Pido
and special purpose made jails even to protect them from fellow inmates, sickening.

Cant go calling a Priest a sick child molester.

This is so shameful, and all thats happened is worthless words, no promises of making Gardai that aided and supported these creeps lose pensions or jobs. Change is desperately needed and those that were part of this brought to account, made know and shamed.

How much more evil can you get, than folks in power doing nothing about child abuse.

HJ

metrovelvet

[Mr Cowen said: “As to the implications for other individuals of the Report’s findings, I believe that just as there must be no ambiguity about the fact that all institutions and individuals are answerable to the law of the land, whatever their status, it is for those institutions and their members to determine the appropriateness of any individual to hold ecclesiastical office.”
[]

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/taoiseach-shocked-at-abuse-cover-up-436155.html#ixzz0YAXDghjF

Can someone explain. Do I understand correctly that COwen is going to let the church and police deal with this themselves? So in effect the pepetrators are investigating themselves?

Nevyn

I think that criminal charges should be taken for obstruction of justice but the church has to decide if those invovled are removed from thier positionsin the church or defrocked or not. The State can't tell the church to do that, but the state should look at changing the patronage system for schools.

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

I think that criminal charges should be taken for obstruction of justice but the church has to decide if those invovled are removed from thier positionsin the church or defrocked or not. The State can't tell the church to do that, but the state should look at changing the patronage system for schools.

Right. So the state can prosecute but once they served a jail sentence its up to the church to decide whether or not they are defrocked.

And most definitely the state should not allow offenders within a 30 mile radius of a school.

Has their been any mention of these sickos being named and shamed? Any mention of a public sex offendor's list?

Nevyn

They can't go on the sex offenders register until after they have been found guilty by a court of law.

happyjack

Thaedydal wrote: »

They can't go on the sex offenders register until after they have been found guilty by a court of law.

The folks who protected child molesters need to be named and shamed, for some one to shield a sex offender who continues to offend beggars belief.

The Gardai they sheilded these sickos didnt even ask for the church to defrock them and take them out of their abuse cycle, thats so so sick.

To think that police who let sex offenders continue to abuse most likely got promotion.

The truth will help.

How can we move forward as a country from this if nothing short of total truth is applied across the board.

Telling lies got everyone into this state and let children get hurt over and over again.

This countries gone down the toilet.

philologos

Thaedydal wrote: »

I think that criminal charges should be taken for obstruction of justice but the church has to decide if those invovled are removed from thier positionsin the church or defrocked or not. The State can't tell the church to do that, but the state should look at changing the patronage system for schools.

There is a problem with this, yes, one can change the patronage in Catholic schools through demanding schools in return for the debt that the Catholic Church have to the State for the abuse claims.

However, this leaves the churches under the patronage of other denominations in doubt. Why should the Church of Ireland, and Methodists amongst others hand over their property to the State if they are not guilty of any wrongdoing?

metrovelvet

^ Exactly. And why should the state have total control since they are also guilty parties?

johnnyskeleton

Thaedydal wrote:

So when are we going to see priest and archbishops up on charges on this?

Some already have been prosecuted, but hopefully a new raft of prosecutions will arise from the recent report. However, the prosecutions will only be for the actual abusers because, while there might be good reason to prosecute the people who covered it up, it will cause legal difficulties and the DPP might decide not to prosecute.

What people should demand is additional ringfenced funding to the DPP to prosecute these offences, because the DPP & Gardai are struggling with their current workload.

Thaedydal wrote:

Will this be the final nail in the coffin and we will see the church ousted from their control of the majority of primary schools in the country?

No. That would involve the State buying up those schools or setting up new schools in their place. Furthermore, there will always be people in Ireland who want to send their children to the denominational schools or the percieved "best" schools, which are by and large the fee paying established religious schools.

Thaedydal wrote:

Will politicians call for a proper break in the relationship between church and state finally?

They can't even call for a proper budget. The only things politicians will call for is "save the poor children from abuse", not "actually take steps to prevent abuse".

Thaedydal wrote: »

What will it take to get the people of this country to demand accountability?

Well, the Ferns report was 2005 and people were outraged but forgot about it after a while. I assume the same will happen here. Equally for all the outrage surrounding NAMA, it was signed by the president last week without so much as a peep out of the people. As a people we don't do demanding accountability or justice, and that in turn gives our politicians free reign to talk big and do nothing.

So what will it take to get people to demand accountability in Ireland? You'd probably have to replace us all with Sweeds.

BMurr

The timeline given earlier in this thread is by no means comprehensive. For example in 2003 a Fr Patrick Crowley was convicted of abusing an alter boy during his time as a proest in Ballincollig Parish, County Cork in 1988 and 1989. I can recall this priest becoming the focus of concerned students at a well known cork city boarding school in 1980 or thereabouts, he was discreetly transferred to Peru at as a result of the rumours in circulation in the school. The principal of the school at that time is now a prominent member of the church hierarchy.I can only assume that in Peru Fr Crowley continued to abuse children and by the time he abused the alter boy in 1988/9 in Ballincollig that he had damaged many children. I can easily imagine that as people delve deeper into the churches affairs it will become apparant that a very significant and dysfunctional group of people who either crave power( the hiearchical aspects of church ideally suited for these individuals) or who see it as a hiding place, a camouflage of sorts -have over the millennia infiltrated the church and thwarted its original Christian message of love.

97i9y3941

they better do something,in the name of god and humanity they should name and shame these people,the victims are going through the same pain again of no one knowing the abusers,i dont give a f#ck about the timeline etc,if they can prosecute in usa/canada they can do it here,heck they even put a 89 year old former nazi on trial recently for crimes going back 65 years so theres no ifs and buts...

Zombrex

metrovelvet wrote: »

^ Exactly. And why should the state have total control since they are also guilty parties?

Because the State is responsible to the people. The Catholic Church, or any other religious organisation, isn't.

Which is why for example the RCC has to decide if these bishops are to be forced to resign, rather than being made resign by us.

There is no democratic input into the Catholic Church.

Trathnona

Fred83 wrote: »

they better do something,in the name of god and humanity they should name and shame these people,the victims are going through the same pain again of no one knowing the abusers,i dont give a f#ck about the timeline etc,if they can prosecute in usa/canada they can do it here,heck they even put a 89 year old former nazi on trial recently for crimes going back 65 years so theres no ifs and buts...

So why don't we do what the Israelies did, set up our own Paedo hunters group to hunt down the offenders and bring Civil lawsuits against them, like they did for Nazis? I am unemployed at the moment, it would be nice to have something worthwhile to do....

hoggy76

do you know more about the earlier talk and rumours about this convict? i'm trying to track down some bits and pieces on him, but the only conviction he seems to have is the one in 2003. on the hunt for more info if you'd like to help out.

BMurr wrote: »

The timeline given earlier in this thread is by no means comprehensive. For example in 2003 a Fr Patrick Crowley was convicted of abusing an alter boy during his time as a proest in Ballincollig Parish, County Cork in 1988 and 1989. I can recall this priest becoming the focus of concerned students at a well known cork city boarding school in 1980 or thereabouts, he was discreetly transferred to Peru at as a result of the rumours in circulation in the school. The principal of the school at that time is now a prominent member of the church hierarchy.I can only assume that in Peru Fr Crowley continued to abuse children and by the time he abused the alter boy in 1988/9 in Ballincollig that he had damaged many children. I can easily imagine that as people delve deeper into the churches affairs it will become apparant that a very significant and dysfunctional group of people who either crave power( the hiearchical aspects of church ideally suited for these individuals) or who see it as a hiding place, a camouflage of sorts -have over the millennia infiltrated the church and thwarted its original Christian message of love.

BMurr

Hoggy 76-For more info on Crowley see here http://www.breakingnews.ie/2003/11/12/story121190.html

The students in the boarding school used to barracade themselves into their rooms at night and arm themselves with hurleys in case he came in for them. There were suggestioins that he was going in to some boys room and doing things which back then were incomprehensible to that age group and so the picture of what he was doing wasn't clearly conveyed. Nonetheless the man was shipped off on foot of these concerns, it is only later with the conviction and failed conviction that the fire which generated so much smoke becomes apparant to all.

hoggy76

thanks BMurr - I saw the 2003 story alright. wondering what school he used to be at before being sent to Peru to do who knows what to kids there. a school of hurlers, so i suppose i can guess! funny that the diocese of cork & ross doesn't list him in their elaborate database of present and former priests. the quashing of the 1991 case might also be worthy of investigation. any other info greatly appreciated.

BMurr

Of course physical abuse in the form of corporal punishment was acceptable back then, those priests seemed to revel in their licence to dole out punishments using hurleys on young boys who were far away from their parents.

mickthedick

THe need for reform in the catholic church is overwhelming. It has to reform from within, celibacy would be a start. The need to protect the institution at all costs is crazy and misguided. The link here between church and state needs to be severed, especially in the area of control of the schools

omahaid

Does anyone know if all priests and bishops are vetted? Same way as a person working with children is vetted?

nacho libre

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It's just my own personal opinion that many people are consumed by self interest. They don't feel compelled to demand change because they fail to relate to these horrific findings to a high enough level where they would feel compelled to act.

yes, that seems to be the case. they would have to re-examine their fundamental beliefs and values. most people are just not prepared to do that. it's moral cowardice. it's easier to express transient abhorrence then move on. by the way it's not just the church that has a lot to answer for it is those in state institutions who either turned a blind eye or connived with the catholic hierarchy in ireland to cover up what was going on.

DiarmaidGNR

The Bishops were just taking their orders from the vatican.
Please watch this link, it contains 100% unadulterated fact about the vatican system.
The main reason I say to watch this link is because it has information about a vatican law that was brought in by the current pope many years ago that told the bishops to hide the abuse at all costs. - It was mentioned in "The Frontline" last night. Please watch.

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=NVN159RD

happyjack

nacho libre wrote: »

yes, that seems to be the case. they would have to re-examine their fundamental beliefs and values. most people are just not prepared to do that. it's moral cowardice. it's easier to express transient abhorrence then move on. by the way it's not just the church that has a lot to answer for it is those in state institutions who either turned a blind eye or connived with the catholic hierarchy in ireland to cover up what was going on.

I fully agree, it looks like the Gardai will not be looking to charge those within it's ranks that helped these evil people to prosper. So the abuse still continues.

HJ:)

Rev Hellfire

happyjack wrote: »

So the abuse still continues.

Well I think its unlikely that the church is actively covering up abuse these days.

Either way the shelf life of this particular topic in the media and general populous for that matter (assuming the majority really cared to begin with) will come to an end once the budget details start to get released and we've more immediate and practical concerns to keep ourselves occupied.

DiarmaidGNR

Hi, if you are interested in the Murphy report please look at this link,-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqaztyGQrbY&feature=related

it is very enlightening.