Moon Mission : Nazi's

hinault

One of the great conspiracies that I heard, concerned the Moon Missions during the late 1960s/70's.

One of the main men responsible for the USA success in getting to the Moon first, was a guy called Werhner Von Braun.
Von Braun was a German rocket scientist who developed the V2 rocket during WWII.

At thend of WWII, he was cleared by the US authorities and was repatriated to USA to assist US in their research in to intercontinental ballistics.
This indusrty morphed in to NASA : and Von Braun was central to the development of the Saturn rocket which fired the US space missions.

VonBraun was an important part of the German/Nazi regime.

Before Apollo 11 (to bring the first man to the Moon) departed, it is rumoured that Von Braun gave one of the astronauts a minature Nazi flag to bring to the Moon, by way of tribute to the regime which had developed the rocket.
The Nazi's had actually contemplated going to the Moon as part of the advance of science and VonBraun felt that this was the closest way of marking the fact, that without their work, the Americans would never have got to the Moon before the Soviets.

Interesting theory!

jhegarty

Why would the astronaut bring the flag ?

hinault

jhegarty wrote: »

Why would the astronaut bring the flag ?

It would be the nearest that the Nazi's would ever get to the Moon
(any territory conquered by the Nazi's was immediately flooded with the Nazi insignia).

The flag, given by Von Braun to the crew of Apollo 11, was believed to be a miniature flag displaying the swastika.

jhegarty

hinault wrote: »

It would be the nearest that the Nazi's would ever get to the Moon
(any territory conquered by the Nazi's was immediately flooded with the Nazi insignia).

The flag, given by Von Braun to the crew of Apollo 11, was believed to be a miniature flag displaying the swastika.

Von Braun I can understand , but are you saying the Apollo 11 astronauts were Nazis ?

Clare_Guy

hinault wrote: »

It would be the nearest that the Nazi's would ever get to the Moon
(any territory conquered by the Nazi's was immediately flooded with the Nazi insignia).

The flag, given by Von Braun to the crew of Apollo 11, was believed to be a miniature flag displaying the swastika.

So you're saying the conspiracy is what? that the astronauts were brainwashed by von braun into planting a nazi flag on the moon? Or the astronauts were nazi's?

sickpuppy32

if i remember correctly his autobiography was called " i reach for the stars", the news of the world added "but sometimes hit london". Was he a german patriot - yes - a nazi? - dont know - nazi flag story doesn't ad up though

hinault

hinault wrote: »

One of the great conspiracies that I heard, concerned the Moon Missions during the late 1960s/70's.

One of the main men responsible for the USA success in getting to the Moon first, was a guy called Werhner Von Braun.
Von Braun was a German rocket scientist who developed the V2 rocket during WWII.

At thend of WWII, he was cleared by the US authorities and was repatriated to USA to assist US in their research in to intercontinental ballistics.
This indusrty morphed in to NASA : and Von Braun was central to the development of the Saturn rocket which fired the US space missions.

Yep it was basically a race to get them before the Reds did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

hinault wrote: »

VonBraun was an important part of the German/Nazi regime.

He wasn't really.
He was in the SS but wasn't of a particularly high rank.

The main thing he did was engineering projects. He never really had anything to do with government decisions.

Though that being said he was no angel either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

hinault wrote: »

Before Apollo 11 (to bring the first man to the Moon) departed, it is rumoured that Von Braun gave one of the astronauts a minature Nazi flag to bring to the Moon, by way of tribute to the regime which had developed the rocket.

This is fairly unlikely.
Remember that WW2 was only 20 years ago at the time, many of the higher ups in the military probably fought in the war.
Most of the Astronauts would have been trained by people who flew missions against Germany. I don't think they'd be too happy with planting a Nazi flag.

Furthermore Von Braun wasn't that attached to the Nazis so I doubt he'd bother with the gesture.

hinault wrote: »

The Nazi's had actually contemplated going to the Moon as part of the advance of science and VonBraun felt that this was the closest way of marking the fact, that without their work, the Americans would never have got to the Moon before the Soviets.

Interesting theory!

Again unlikely.
The only time the Nazis had any rockets that would come anywhere close to spaceflight the war was going pretty bad for them.
Most of their resources where tied into either weapons production or weapons development.
The V2 (and by extension, the entire Nazi rocket program) was designed purely as a weapon and deployed as a vengeance weapon.
Future plans for it involved making it submarine launch-able, but there where no plans to use it as a spacecraft.
It was only when the Americans started researching them was it proposed that they could be used for space exploration.
Also remember that the Russians captured a fair few V2s and scientists themselves.

The really big jump in rocketry that allowed space exploration was multi staging, something the Nazis didn't develop.

I think it was Von Braun and the ass load of money supplied to him by Nasa that let the Americans win the space race, not any particular Nazi invention.

Clare_Guy

hinault wrote: »

It would be the nearest that the Nazi's would ever get to the Moon
(any territory conquered by the Nazi's was immediately flooded with the Nazi insignia).

The flag, given by Von Braun to the crew of Apollo 11, was believed to be a miniature flag displaying the swastika.

So you're saying the conspiracy is what? that the astronauts were brainwashed by von braun into planting a nazi flag on the moon? Or the astronauts were nazi's?

kowloon

The problem with this conspiracy is von Braun not actually being a Nazi, they even arrested him at one stage, releasing him on grounds that he was useful.

EXODUS251022

I doubt the whole thing as I don't believe anybody has got to the moon yet.

kowloon

kowloon wrote: »

The problem with this conspiracy is von Braun not actually being a Nazi, they even arrested him at one stage, releasing him on grounds that he was useful.

Oh he was a Nazi.
He was the SS and all.

But he was arrested and released because of the V2 project.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun#Arrest_and_release_by_the_Nazi_regime

humanji

Although it would seem unlikely, if it were true I wouldn't see it as a conspiracy. If Von Braun were to give the astranauts a flag it could have been as a little joke. The astronauts wouldn't of had to have been Nazis, they'd just need a sense of humour.

hinault

Folks, I am not suggesting that Armstrong/Aldrin/Collins, were/are Nazi's.
I am suggesting that the conspiracy theory is that because the Nazi's themselves never got to the moon that this was the closest the regime would ever get to the Moon.

You've got to remember though that the Hitler regime - and its research in to rocket technology - provided the platform for the US to win the space race.

According to the conspiracy theory, Von Braun as a committed member of the Nazi technology regime was rumoured to have given a small flag to the astronauts, to commemorate (to mark) the fact that the Moon landing was due in part to the work done during the 1930/40's by the regime, on the successful mission to the Moon.

hinault

hinault wrote: »

You've got to remember though that the Hitler regime - and its research in to rocket technology - provided the platform for the US to win the space race.

According to the conspiracy theory, Von Braun as a committed member of the Nazi technology regime was rumoured to have given a small flag to the astronauts, to commemorate (to mark) the fact that the Moon landing was due in part to the work done during the 1930/40's by the regime, on the successful mission to the Moon.

But you see they didn't contribute that much to rocketry.
They only really developed their rockets towards the end of the war, and they only developed them as a weapon.
They didn't really coming up with anything new or amazing.

Pretty much all of the advances needed to get to the moon where made after the war.

And the astronauts wouldn't have been too happy with carrying a Nazi flag when most of their instructors possibly even older brothers/fathers fought against the Nazis.

Stainless_Steel

King Mob wrote: »

And the astronauts wouldn't have been too happy with carrying a Nazi flag when most of their instructors possibly even older brothers/fathers fought against the Nazis.

I agree.

What exactly is the conspiracy? Who is conspiring?

Lets say the nazi lad did give a flag to louis armstrong and buzz lightyear, what was he conspiring to do? Knowing how arrogant buzz lightyear is, he would have punched the lad.

The only possible conspiracy in this is that the astronauts were nazis....which you (hinault) already pointed out as not being your suggestion....

hinault

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

I agree.

What exactly is the conspiracy? Who is conspiring?

Lets say the nazi lad did give a flag to louis armstrong and buzz lightyear, what was he conspiring to do? Knowing how arrogant buzz lightyear is, he would have punched the lad.

The only possible conspiracy in this is that the astronauts were nazis....which you (hinault) already pointed out as not being your suggestion....

I suppose this thread is probably better described as an urban myth rather than a conspiracy theory

I've read widely about Von Braun - and he was decidely peeved at the treatment that he received at NASA.
I can understand NASA/American reluctance to highlight the fact that the man who basically got them to the Moon, had been the force behind the V2 rocket during WW2.
(although the V2s were only used in the European theatre of WW2).

For example there are no photographs of America's finest with Von Braun.
President Eisenhower refused to be photographed with Von Braun.
Oddly there is a photograph of him with JFK taken in the 1960's.

jayteecork

I'm not impressed with any of this moon lark.

Nazi flags on the moon? American Flags on the moon? Footprints? Golf? Traces of Water?

Meh.

Until they find some sort of Alien Artifact with power beyond imagination then I'm not in the slightest bit interested.

Undergod

hinault wrote: »

I am suggesting that the conspiracy theory is that because the Nazi's themselves never got to the moon that this was the closest the regime would ever get to the Moon.

I don't even see that as a conspiracy tbh, just bad taste.

hinault

hinault wrote: »

For example there are no photographs of America's finest with Von Braun.
President Eisenhower refused to be photographed with Von Braun.
Oddly there is a photograph of him with JFK taken in the 1960's.

Here he is with the Mercury 7
http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/vonbraun/photo/images/new-16.gif

Here he is with Rusty Schweickart of Apollo 9 in 1970.
http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/donley/General%20Donley%20with%20NASA%20astronaut%20Rusty%20Schweickart%20and%20Dr%20Von%20Braun%20at%20Space%20and%20Rocket%20Center,%201970.jpg

Here he is with L. Gordon Cooper.
http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/MEDIUM/GPN-2000-000038.jpg

Here he is with John Glenn.
http://mix.msfc.nasa.gov/IMAGES/MEDIUM/6861887.jpg


Oh and here's a good one taken moments after the launch of Apollo 11 laughing with some top officials of Nasa.
http://www.apollomissionphotos.com/69h1159.jpg

And here he is with Eisenhower
http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/blogs/news/chiefeditor/Eisenhower-and-Von-Braun-picture.jpg
http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/archives/vonbraun/bruckner_von_braun_eisen_jan59_01.jpg

hinault

King Mob wrote: »

Here he is with the Mercury 7
http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/vonbraun/photo/images/new-16.gif

Here he is with Rusty Schweickart of Apollo 9 in 1970.
http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/donley/General%20Donley%20with%20NASA%20astronaut%20Rusty%20Schweickart%20and%20Dr%20Von%20Braun%20at%20Space%20and%20Rocket%20Center,%201970.jpg

Here he is with L. Gordon Cooper.
http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/IMAGES/MEDIUM/GPN-2000-000038.jpg

Here he is with John Glenn.
http://mix.msfc.nasa.gov/IMAGES/MEDIUM/6861887.jpg

And here he is with Eisenhower
http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/blogs/news/chiefeditor/Eisenhower-and-Von-Braun-picture.jpg
http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/archives/vonbraun/bruckner_von_braun_eisen_jan59_01.jpg

The photographs with IKE are very interesting.

According to two books I have read about the space programme, Eisenhower while President, refused to meet with Von Braun.
Obviously the photographic evidence suggest otherwise.
Thanks for that Mob.

sickpuppy32

I believe that he proposed a different system than the multi-stage system, he wanted a platform in orbit in which to launch multiple missions to the moon, mars etc. It was vetoed cause of the initial higher cost.