Engagement gifts for men...

dogeyknees

Im buying a ring for my missus and i was wondering do men usually get a gift in return? The rings she likes are in the 3-4k category which is pretty expensive for a piece of jewelery in my opinion.

To give some context, i have a house for a few years which i spend every hour and every cent renovating (we now live together but i still pay the mortgage). I have had to take a series of pay cuts whereas she is now on a fairly higher salary than me (being in the public sector). I can understand the tradition of the ring being bought when women had to give their jobs up if they had one, but its a bit much to expect to shell out 4K when there are things i would love to get myself, especially seeing as i have provided so much already!

sneem-man

Don't do it

drewbedo

i think men should get an engagement present.im not long engaged and my fiancee and i have discussed several options for my engagement present from a ring to contibuting to my sleeve tattoo.i do think your fiancee is taking the [EMAIL="p@8s"]p@8s[/EMAIL] a fair bit thugh if she is living with you and not contributing to the mortgage.even if she is contributing to the bills by half she should be contributing to the mortgage.and if you put her name on it she should by law be contributing by half. but if she had any respect for you she would be contributing a few hundred a month to the mortgage.

dogeyknees

drewbedo wrote: »

i think men should get an engagement present.im not long engaged and my fiancee and i have discussed several options for my engagement present from a ring to contibuting to my sleeve tattoo.i do think your fiancee is taking the p@8s a fair bit thugh if she is living with you and not contributing to the mortgage.even if she is contributing to the bills by half she should be contributing to the mortgage.and if you put her name on it she should by law be contributing by half. but if she had any respect for you she would be contributing a few hundred a month to the mortgage.

In fairness she pays rent (at the going rate for the area) and that is my decision as if anything went wrong and we went our separate ways, i don't want my house up for contention after the work and money i put into it - its a safety precaution.

bad2dabone

well thats fair enough that she pays rent, it would only lead to resentment if she was earning more and living for free.

As regards a present, my Mrs got me a guitar of my choice when we got engaged. So I'm a firm believer that if she can afford it then yeah, she should get you a present too

How Strange

dogeyknees wrote: »

Im buying a ring for my missus and i was wondering do men usually get a gift in return? The rings she likes are in the 3-4k category which is pretty expensive for a piece of jewelery in my opinion.

To give some context, (being in the public sector). but its a bit much to expect to shell out 4K

First off, why do you assume you have to spend €4k? You spend what you can afford so if your budget stretches to €500 or even less then that's what you spend.

i have a house for a few years which i spend every hour and every cent renovating (we now live together but i still pay the mortgage). ...I have had to take a series of pay cuts whereas she is now on a fairly higher salary than me I can understand the tradition of the ring being bought when women had to give their jobs up if they had one,

Secondly, :eek:

when there are things i would love to get myself, especially seeing as i have provided so much already!

Thirdly, you seem a little resentful at having to buy an engagement ring. I mean resentful and not reluctant. If you're not into it fair enough. I felt a fair bit of guilt at my OH spending his savings on a ring but he wanted to do it and I 100% appreciated the gesture. It is a commercial gimmick but just make sure your OH shares your view because if you're not into buying a ring because you'd rather spend the money on yourself and you think she earns too much then that's not a recipe for a happy engagement let alone a happy marriage.

dogeyknees

bad2dabone wrote: »

well thats fair enough that she pays rent, it would only lead to resentment if she was earning more and living for free.

As regards a present, my Mrs got me a guitar of my choice when we got engaged. So I'm a firm believer that if she can afford it then yeah, she should get you a present too

I am too, its only fair IMO as im busting my nuts to save to get a ring that she wants and then will have to pay half for the wedding, which im now realising, i will have no say in whatsoever. Its funny how when something works in a womans favour its 'tradition' when it doesn't its 'sexist' or 'chauvinist'

bad2dabone

dogeyknees wrote: »

I am too, its only fair IMO as im busting my nuts to save to get a ring that she wants and then will have to pay half for the wedding, which im now realising, i will have no say in whatsoever. Its funny how when something works in a womans favour its 'tradition' when it doesn't its 'sexist' or 'chauvinist'

dude you sound a bit resentful about the whole thing, and to be honest you've to sort that out now in your head and square it away before it grows.

You should have a chat with her and be firm about certain things on the wedding budget that are just BS and a rip off. we were quoted 3,000 for our photos ffs.

seamus

You're forgetting that once the wedding is over, the money is communal. It's the end of your money -v- her money. You should be busting a nut to buy the ring she wants because you *want* to, not because you think you have to. If you don't want to, then buy something cheaper. In general, whatever engagement ring you buy is the "right" one, regardless of price. It's not about the ring, it's about the meaning.

My missus really felt like she had to buy me an engagement present, that it was the right thing to do. So I got a ring too (something manly of course ). She did though ask me if I wanted a ring or something else.

Paying for half of the wedding is up to you. You come up with a wedding budget, being realistic about what you can afford. She then has the option to pay more than half or to work within the available budget. You don't earn more than her, so don't feel obliged to match her euro for euro.

bangersandmash

OP at first glance it sounds like you have a sensible approach to your finances. And if your partner's expectations are unrealistic given your financial state, it's not unrealistic to say that she's the one who will have to readjust.

That said, two things stand out. First, for me the idea that a gift requires something in return defeats the entire purpose of a gift. If your partner decides to get you something, that's thoughtful. If she has to be coerced into it just for the sake of buying something, I don't see the point. Second, paying for half the wedding doesn't sound unreasonable once you have equal input on what the budget will be.

krankykitty

Your girlfriend would probably rather you didn't bother with the whole engagement thing if you're so being so negative about it. :rolleyes:

You by no means have to spend 4k on a ring, nor do you have to agree to decisions about the day that you don't want to. You seem resentful that you're paying for what you refer to as your house that she pays rent to. Think you have a bit more than an engagement present to consider mate!

dogeyknees

Right, firstly I guess I do resent having to buy an engagement ring as i find it old hat and very unfair and one sided. Times have changed yet 'traditions' remain unbalanced. I might come across as some kind of miser but im certainly not.

I would like to buy what i could afford but unfortunately, what i would like to pay is deemed too paltry due to the pressure that has built up on my OH and what her friends got, we looked at some rings which were lovely IMO, but they weren't what the OH wanted as i have a feeling she wants to keep up with the Jonse's.

Yes, i call it my house as i pay treble the rent i ask, and have been paying the mortgage for 3 years solo prior to the OH moving in, not to mention spending every spare hour and cent renovating it. The reason i talk about my house is that whilst all her friends may have gotten the rings of their dreams, their partners didn't have a house that they were bringing to the table with them. To me, the security of a house beats the hell out of a ring! I have always said that when we tied the knot, as much as it would kill me, i would sell the house and move closer to her home. I 100% understand that what is mine becomes hers and so forth and im happy to roll with that.

I guess im just venting, I have found out a lot about weddings in the last few days and its just seems like one expense after another which is a hard pill to swallow after spending the last 4 years scraping by in order to provide a house... some things mean a lot more to me than others like having a nice bed at the expense of a floral table centres and linen chaircovers at the reception!

bakkiesbotha

The thing women care the most about is their status among other women, so you can forget about trying to have a romantic, personal, or intimate wedding. The idea of a small ring being personal and meaningful to both of you exists only in your mind. Competition, and keeping up with the Joneses is what the whole business is about.

Your engagement, your wedding, and let's be honest, your whole life is going to be in competition with her sisters' and friends' engagements, weddings and lives, and you are going to be spend your life in competition with other men that you might not ever have met.

Be prepared for your future wife to come home in a strop because so-and-so's husband brings her away on surprise trips to 5 star hotels, or sends her flowers at work, or gives her massages, or gets on really well with her parents, or makes loads of money, or has a second home, or gets the kids into an exclusive school, or whatever, and she can't top them, or boast about something similar

Of course, I mean "some women" in all of the above, and this opinion doesn't take into account all of the good character traits that women, and of course your partner, have.

tfak85

my boyfriend will probably be getting an engagement present, one of two guitars he is lusting after...
it will cost about the same as the ring he will get me..
i have offered to pay for half of the ring instead of buying said guitar, this is due to the fact that i have more savings than he has and i don't feel he should bust a nut working two jobs just to pay for it - i think he wants something to say he is engaged though, besides a fiance that is...

perhaps sit her down and talk about when you might go shopping for your engagement gift...see where this takes you...

BC

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

The thing women care the most about is their status among other women

Rubbish.
I don't know anyone who thinks this.

In relation to the cost of rings, no one has ever asked me how much mine cost and i wouldn't tell them if they did. As I have said on other threads, finding a ring is about finding something you would love to wear for the rest of your life, not about the cost or 'keeping up with the joness'

OP - have you discussed your views with your girlfriend? It sounds like you're very resentful about the whole thing. Maybe you are your gf should sit down together and discuss what sort of wedding etc you would like to try and get these issues out in the open.

dogeyknees

tfak85 wrote: »

my boyfriend will probably be getting an engagement present, one of two guitars he is lusting after...
it will cost about the same as the ring he will get me..
i have offered to pay for half of the ring instead of buying said guitar, this is due to the fact that i have more savings than he has and i don't feel he should bust a nut working two jobs just to pay for it - i think he wants something to say he is engaged though, besides a fiance that is...

perhaps sit her down and talk about when you might go shopping for your engagement gift...see where this takes you...

I was looking at watches after ring shopping and dropped a hint (as i do actually need one) and got a look of complete bafflement at the thought of an engagement present for me. Recently the subject of Christmas presents came up which gobsmacked me as i assumed the big shiny ring for Christmas was enough, but allegedly we're on a budget!

dogeyknees

BC wrote: »

Rubbish.
I don't know anyone who thinks this.

In relation to the cost of rings, no one has ever asked me how much mine cost and i wouldn't tell them if they did. As I have said on other threads, finding a ring is about finding something you would love to wear for the rest of your life, not about the cost or 'keeping up with the joness'

OP - have you discussed your views with your girlfriend? It sounds like you're very resentful about the whole thing. Maybe you are your gf should sit down together and discuss what sort of wedding etc you would like to try and get these issues out in the open.

I did in the beginning and we agreed that we would like to keep it simple, enjoyable and inexpensive. We agreed that we didn't want to spend a few years paying off one day. All was great but a lot has been changing which is not what i agreed and yes i am becoming unhappy about it. I think that other peoples views are taking over and its pissing me off. The ring shopping has become a major irritation with snobbery really paying a part and this is what is really grinding my gears. Im not going into the details of it but my feelings about getting something in return is probably an manifestation of the frustration i am feeling that bigger is better and so forth. I shouldn't have to sit down and explain that finance is not good and any help would be appreciated.

itsmine

dogeyknees wrote: »

I was looking at watches after ring shopping and dropped a hint (as i do actually need one) and got a look of complete bafflement at the thought of an engagement present for me. Recently the subject of Christmas presents came up which gobsmacked me as i assumed the big shiny ring for Christmas was enough, but allegedly we're on a budget!

You guys need to talk:

- Fix a budget you are comfortable with for the ring. If she would like to add some money to to budget to buy a more expensive ring, then go with that. I know of several couples who bought the engagement ring between them in order to afford "the one".
- This year is an exceptional year Christmas present-wise as you are (possibly both) investing in an expensive ring. Therefore you could set a €50 each upper limit for token Christmas presents to exchange on the day - fill a stocking each with things that'll make you both smile.
- If you would like an engagement watch, then tell her. Explain that it is something that would mean a lot to you (not in the tit for tat "I'm spending more money on you" stakes)

Weddings do cost a lot. In order to rein in spending, you should both be involved and shop around. There are perfectly good photographers for less than a grand. You can get hotels to throw in the chair covers if you haggle with them etc. etc. Look on weddingsonline.ie forums for other money saving tips.

And enjoy it! Enjoy the fuss people will make of you both when they hear you're engaged.

How Strange

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

The thing women care the most about is their status among other women, so you can forget about trying to have a romantic, personal, or intimate wedding. The idea of a small ring being personal and meaningful to both of you exists only in your mind. Competition, and keeping up with the Joneses is what the whole business is about.

Your engagement, your wedding, and let's be honest, your whole life is going to be in competition with her sisters' and friends' engagements, weddings and lives, and you are going to be spend your life in competition with other men that you might not ever have met.

Be prepared for your future wife to come home in a strop because so-and-so's husband brings her away on surprise trips to 5 star hotels, or sends her flowers at work, or gives her massages, or gets on really well with her parents, or makes loads of money, or has a second home, or gets the kids into an exclusive school, or whatever, and she can't top them, or boast about something similar

Of course, I mean "some women" in all of the above, and this opinion doesn't take into account all of the good character traits that women, and of course your partner, have.

:eek:
What kind of girls do you know.

Honestly, what a load of rubbish.

Sniipe

whats an engagement gift? Is it an engagement ring? Or do I have to shell out more

bakkiesbotha

BC wrote: »

finding a ring is about finding something you would love to wear for the rest of your life, not about the cost or 'keeping up with the joness'

Of course. But what sort of ring would you love to wear for the rest of your life?

Imagine the following scene. You are out on, for example, a hen party with a large group of girls. Being all around the same age group, quite a few of you are engaged or recently married. Naturally, everyone wants to see the hen's engagement ring, and this leads to everybody showing off their rings.

The average rock is a pretty decent size, but you are toting a barely discernible crumb. The girls ooh and aah over everyone's ring, but when it comes to yours, you know that they are just being polite. You can see the barely concealed pity and embarrassment, and start getting defensive and waffling about how much you love the ring and how much it means to you.

Now repeat over and over again for the rest of your life. Even when your daughter gets engaged in a few decades time, your ring compares unfavourably to hers and you have to defend it.

Would you love that?

It would be like a man with a tiny penis being forced into a dick measuring competition every time he meets another man. He can talk and talk about how size doesn't matter, but the whole world knows that he would like nothing more than a big chopper to swing about.

Mr. Presentable

dogeyknees wrote: »

Im buying a ring for my missus and i was wondering do men usually get a gift in return? The rings she likes are in the 3-4k category which is pretty expensive for a piece of jewelery in my opinion.

To give some context, i have a house for a few years which i spend every hour and every cent renovating (we now live together but i still pay the mortgage). I have had to take a series of pay cuts whereas she is now on a fairly higher salary than me (being in the public sector). I can understand the tradition of the ring being bought when women had to give their jobs up if they had one, but its a bit much to expect to shell out 4K when there are things i would love to get myself, especially seeing as i have provided so much already!

Draw a line under the relationship and move on.

You would pay anything to make her happy if you love her. If she loved you she wouldn't put this kind of pressure on you for "stuff". It's not a runner, for me, it's a "runawayer"

Sniipe

just curious, will you be getting a pre nup? Do they exist in Ireland.

Couldn't she just marry him then divorce him and take half the house?

seamus

Sniipe wrote: »

just curious, will you be getting a pre nup? Do they exist in Ireland.

Pre-nups aren't valid in Ireland.

Couldn't she just marry him then divorce him and take half the house?

Technically no. Although in Irish law, family assets are pooled, that doesn't necessarily translate in divorces. If it can be shown in court that one side contributed more (or everything) in acquiring an asset during the marriage, then they can be awarded full ownership of the asset at divorce.

This often gets muddied though for a number of reasons:
1. A divorce or a separation involving children will *always* award full control of the family home to the person who is looking after the children. This doesn't mean that person *owns* the family home, but the house cannot be sold for as long as the children are living there.

2. Courts recognise non-monetary contributions. A famous case (recent enough) was taken by a man who'd gotten divorced, claiming full ownership of the house on the basis that only his name was on the mortgage/deeds and only he had paid the mortgage over the years. The court disagreed, having decided that the woman (who was a full-time housewife) had contributed sufficiently in the way of cooking/cleaning/childrearing to lay claim to half of the house.

In the OP's case, if he were to get married and divorce again five years later, the most she could claim for is the value of any mortgage repayments she made while party to the marriage. The rent charged beforehand would not be counted.

revels26

Go with the tat drewbedo!!!

dogeyknees

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

Of course. But what sort of ring would you love to wear for the rest of your life?

Imagine the following scene. You are out on, for example, a hen party with a large group of girls. Being all around the same age group, quite a few of you are engaged or recently married. Naturally, everyone wants to see the hen's engagement ring, and this leads to everybody showing off their rings.

The average rock is a pretty decent size, but you are toting a barely discernible crumb. The girls ooh and aah over everyone's ring, but when it comes to yours, you know that they are just being polite. You can see the barely concealed pity and embarrassment, and start getting defensive and waffling about how much you love the ring and how much it means to you.

Now repeat over and over again for the rest of your life. Even when your daughter gets engaged in a few decades time, your ring compares unfavourably to hers and you have to defend it.

Would you love that?

It would be like a man with a tiny penis being forced into a dick measuring competition every time he meets another man. He can talk and talk about how size doesn't matter, but the whole world knows that he would like nothing more than a big chopper to swing about.

Im sorry but this isn't a true! This is the type of crap that is been fed to my OH that is making this an issue. I have 2 sisters and a sister in law who have rings for under 500 plus i have countless friends who have 'crumbs'. They don't give a crap what it cost or whether it 'measures' up with the other girls. Incidently, the ring's that i was looking at weren't crumbs by any stretch of the imagination. If people judge you by the size of your ring then really, they are the type of people i wouldn't contemplate associating with.

NextSteps

I think the two of you need to talk, about lots of things, before you even consider getting married. You need to talk about finance, and how it works in your relationship. You need to talk about talking, and how you communicate. You need to talk about your hopes for the future - where and how you want to live. You need to talk about how you as a couple make decisions.

If at the end of that you still want to marry each other (!), you also - and this is much more trivial - need to talk about what kind of wedding you can afford. With a conventional wedding, and it sounds like that's what you want, you'll be doing well to get out under 30k. If you're going to spend the next 2 years sulking about it, it won't be much fun.

How Strange

dogeyknees wrote: »

I was looking at watches after ring shopping and dropped a hint (as i do actually need one) and got a look of complete bafflement at the thought of an engagement present for me. Recently the subject of Christmas presents came up which gobsmacked me as i assumed the big shiny ring for Christmas was enough, but allegedly we're on a budget!

I did in the beginning and we agreed that we would like to keep it simple, enjoyable and inexpensive. We agreed that we didn't want to spend a few years paying off one day. All was great but a lot has been changing which is not what i agreed and yes i am becoming unhappy about it. I think that other peoples views are taking over and its pissing me off. The ring shopping has become a major irritation with snobbery really paying a part and this is what is really grinding my gears. Im not going into the details of it but my feelings about getting something in return is probably an manifestation of the frustration i am feeling that bigger is better and so forth.

I shouldn't have to sit down and explain that finance is not good and any help would be appreciated.

Yes, you should. It's called being in a relationship and talking about things.

Ok, it's clear that there is more to this issue than the price of a ring. OP, you have to sit your OH down and be honest with her.

As it stands you're not ready to be engaged and you shouldn't be considering marriage. You're clearly angry and resentful and think that your OH is some bridezilla who will bleed you dry for a rock and a big day out. Maybe she's gotten carried away with all the wedding talk and she's lost sight of what you initially agreed to so it's definitely time to have an honest discussion.

If this girl wants all these things and you don't then it really says alot about you two as a partnership.