Why should we honour God?

NewToGaelfoce

I mean the simple fact that it created us (assuming it does exist) proves it to be a cruel son of a bitch. It brings us into a world of pain, suffering and hatred.
Then at the end of all of that when you die, there are generally two options, Heaven or Hell. This system, although rewarding to the good, is seriously f**ked up. Since God is supposed to be all knowing, he should essentially know who will end up in Heaven and who Hell. This means that he is creating people for the sole purpose of sending them to eternal damnation. So why the f**k should anyone honour a prick like that?
But, of course, it could also be that he is not all knowing. Or that we are truly created equally and where we end up is in our own hands. But, this still means that he is creating people when he knows that a certain percentage will inevitably be spending an eternity in Hell.
That's not a merciful or kind God. That's a f**king prick.

So, assuming that it does exist. Why should anyone in their right mind honour it through prayer and mass?

Dj Stiggie

We shouldn't, plus if he did create us, he'd also understand the evils of people being worshiped, and the problems that they can cause, Hitler and Stalin being just two examples so surely he wouldn't want to be worshiped

Turtwig

Using phrases like p%^^k doesn't help start discussion.


You could have just phrased your question like:
Why did God create us if He knew that some of us would invariably end up in hell?

NewToGaelfoce

I probably shouldn't have so sorry. But the fact that people could believe in that like Christianity is just annoying. (plus I'm tired )

Turtwig

NewToGaelfoce wrote: »

I probably shouldn't have so sorry. But the fact that people could believe in that like Christianity is just annoying. (plus I'm tired )

I'm wrecked too,:p

Just be careful how you approach Christians as you're not going to deconvert anyone by using insults.

Fanny Cradock

NewToGaelfoce wrote: »

I mean the simple fact that it created us (assuming it does exist) proves it to be a cruel son of a bitch. It brings us into a world of pain, suffering and hatred.
Then at the end of all of that when you die, there are generally two options, Heaven or Hell. This system, although rewarding to the good, is seriously f**ked up. Since God is supposed to be all knowing, he should essentially know who will end up in Heaven and who Hell. This means that he is creating people for the sole purpose of sending them to eternal damnation. So why the f**k should anyone honour a prick like that?
But, of course, it could also be that he is not all knowing. Or that we are truly created equally and where we end up is in our own hands. But, this still means that he is creating people when he knows that a certain percentage will inevitably be spending an eternity in Hell.
That's not a merciful or kind God. That's a f**king prick.

So, assuming that it does exist. Why should anyone in their right mind honour it through prayer and mass?

You have just used up your free pass, buddy. As with any forum, it is expected that you read the charter and stick by it. You need to drastically improve the manner in how you choose to interact with people here. OK?

Your post is chock full of assumptions and half-truths about what Christians believe. Given that you have portrayed a picture of a God I don't believe in either, I wonder if you actually interested in hearing a response?

santing

The answer is rather simple:

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction. (Pro 1:7, ESV)

kelly1

NewToGaelfoce wrote: »

I mean the simple fact that it created us (assuming it does exist) proves it to be a cruel son of a bitch. It brings us into a world of pain, suffering and hatred.
Then at the end of all of that when you die, there are generally two options, Heaven or Hell. This system, although rewarding to the good, is seriously f**ked up. Since God is supposed to be all knowing, he should essentially know who will end up in Heaven and who Hell. This means that he is creating people for the sole purpose of sending them to eternal damnation. So why the f**k should anyone honour a prick like that?
But, of course, it could also be that he is not all knowing. Or that we are truly created equally and where we end up is in our own hands. But, this still means that he is creating people when he knows that a certain percentage will inevitably be spending an eternity in Hell.
That's not a merciful or kind God. That's a f**king prick.

So, assuming that it does exist. Why should anyone in their right mind honour it through prayer and mass?

Despite your very negative tone and the fact that you've insulted our God, I think an answer might help to correct some of your misunderstandings of the situation.

First of all, we all exist today because our parents (not God) made the decision to have sexual intercourse. God doesn't decide to bring people in the world, parents do! God's job is the create the soul at the instant of conception.

As regards the pain and suffering in the world, it's not right to blame God for this either. We are entirely free to act for good or evil and God doesn't force us to take either course. Every evil act we do involves a personal decision to do so. If there were no choice involved, it could hardly be called sin.

God has clearly given us direction through Jesus about how to live according to the order which God wishes to establish in the universe and that means loving God and loving our neighbour as ourselves. Selfishness is the cause of all our woes.

I pray that God will heal your cynicism and bitterness. You might want to consider that your post shows that you're part of the problem rather than the solution.

God bless,
Noel.

Antbert

This could've been interesting if it wasn't for the terrible antagonistic wording.

A shame.

philologos

Why wouldn't we honour Him? The Creator and sustainer of our earth, the giver of life. I personally give thanks to God for the mercy He has shown me and the fact that He has shown me what meaning and purpose I have in my life.

NewToGaelfoce wrote: »

I probably shouldn't have so sorry. But the fact that people could believe in that like Christianity is just annoying. (plus I'm tired )

I love God, I don't see any reason why I should appease you with my opinion. God goes beyond human wills, and human minds, or what humans like or don't like.

liamw

kelly1 wrote: »

First of all, we all exist today because our parents (not God) made the decision to have sexual intercourse. God doesn't decide to bring people in the world, parents do! God's job is the create the soul at the instant of conception.

Does God just create this soul for the human species? Given that humans and all other species share a common ancestor, at what point in evolutionary time did God decide to inject a soul into a certain species? Was there a child born who had a soul whose parents did not?

As regards the pain and suffering in the world, it's not right to blame God for this either. We are entirely free to act for good or evil and God doesn't force us to take either course. Every evil act we do involves a personal decision to do so. If there were no choice involved, it could hardly be called sin.

Firstly, how can we be free to take whatever action we want when God is omniscient?

Secondly, by your logic, it is incorrect to thank God for good things, becuase we are free to act for good through our personal decision.

TravelJunkie

Malty_T wrote: »

I'm wrecked too,:p

Just be careful how you approach Christians as you're not going to deconvert anyone by using insults.

So you're here to deconvert people?

That's not very nice. Okay, you are a non-believer, but why make it your mission to take away other people's hope?

At least you're upfront about your motives, but I hope all christians here keep this in mind when reading your posts.

Soul Winner

NewToGaelfoce wrote: »

I mean the simple fact that it created us (assuming it does exist) proves it to be a cruel son of a bitch. It brings us into a world of pain, suffering and hatred.
Then at the end of all of that when you die, there are generally two options, Heaven or Hell. This system, although rewarding to the good, is seriously f**ked up. Since God is supposed to be all knowing, he should essentially know who will end up in Heaven and who Hell. This means that he is creating people for the sole purpose of sending them to eternal damnation. So why the f**k should anyone honour a prick like that?
But, of course, it could also be that he is not all knowing. Or that we are truly created equally and where we end up is in our own hands. But, this still means that he is creating people when he knows that a certain percentage will inevitably be spending an eternity in Hell.
That's not a merciful or kind God. That's a f**king prick.

So, assuming that it does exist. Why should anyone in their right mind honour it through prayer and mass?

Because He gave you the ability to write words and express yourself at the expense of you putting Him down like you did. If He does exist then that fact that people like you are still alive is testament to His grace which I think is pretty cool. That good enough for you?

Turtwig

Malty_T wrote: »

NewToGaelfoce wrote: »

I probably shouldn't have so sorry. But the fact that people could believe in that like Christianity is just annoying. (plus I'm tired )

I'm wrecked too,:p

Just be careful how you approach Christians as you're not going to deconvert anyone by using insults.

TravelJunkie wrote: »

So you're here to deconvert people?

That's not very nice. Okay, you are a non-believer, but why make it your mission to take away other people's hope?

At least you're upfront about your motives, but I hope all christians here keep this in mind when reading your posts.

Actually,
Deconversion attempts are limited by the forum Charter, my post was replying to someone who was clearly frustrated with Christianity and given him simple advice : if you insult people then they won't even consider your argument, simple as.

Yes, I'll admit I don't think religion is ultimately good, so I'm here to better learn the one that has biggest following and most influence on our cultures. I'm also open to the possibility of being proven wrong by Christians.

I find it telling that you think by taking away religion I'm taking away peoples hope. Regardless of how much hope one may get from something, it doesn't affect its value as to whether it is true or not.

TravelJunkie

Malty_T wrote: »

Actually,

I find it telling that you think by taking away religion I'm taking away peoples hope. Regardless of how much hope one may get from something, it does affect its value of whether it is true or not.

I believe in God, and yes, I have hope. My hope doesn't make God real or not real, it just means I trust in him, and He is my personal hope.

I understand that from your point of view, religion/God isn't true/real. Maybe I got it wrong, and you're not out to deconvert. But, anyone who intentionally goes out to deconvert people is intentionally trying to take away someone's hope.

I realise that Christians try to convert people, too. But this is done with the intention to GIVE hope. Build people up, encourage and support them. (And let me be clear that the hope doesn't come from christians but from God)

One of my favourite verses of the bible is Hebrews 11:1 ' Now faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen'

Soul Winner

Malty_T wrote: »

Regardless of how much hope one may get from something, it doesn't affect its value as to whether it is true or not.

Excellent point, and you are spot on, it doesn’t. But how can one logically analyze whether something is true or not? We know we can't prove anything to be true or false historically but we can weigh up all the available evidence and draw our conclusions based on that. Just as a juror would decide the guilt or innocence of the accused in a court of law based on whatever evidence is available to them, we can be swayed by the weight of evidence for each side of any truth claim in history. If you are truly open to the mere possibility of Christianity being true then I would recommend reading: "Jesus under fire." - Michael J. Wilkins, JP Moreland. If you are never going to accept it no matter what evidence is presented then your statement I quoted is meaningless. If Christianity is false, then it is the most ridiculous lifestyle that anyone can live. But if it is true, then it takes on a completely new meaning altogether.

patmartino

TravelJunkie wrote: »

I believe in God, and yes, I have hope. My hope doesn't make God real or not real, it just means I trust in him, and He is my personal hope.

I understand that from your point of view, religion/God isn't true/real. Maybe I got it wrong, and you're not out to deconvert. But, anyone who intentionally goes out to deconvert people is intentionally trying to take away someone's hope.

I realise that Christians try to convert people, too. But this is done with the intention to GIVE hope. Build people up, encourage and support them. (And let me be clear that the hope doesn't come from christians but from God)

One of my favourite verses of the bible is Hebrews 11:1 ' Now faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen'

I have an isssue with this statement, why do you need to believe in a deity to give your life hope

patmartino

Soul Winner wrote: »

Excellent point, and you are spot on, it doesn’t. But how can one logically analyze whether something is true or not? We know we can't prove anything to be true or false historically but we can weigh up all the available evidence and draw our conclusions based on that. Just as a juror would decide the guilt or innocence of the accused in a court of law based on whatever evidence is available to them, we can be swayed by the weight of evidence for each side of any truth claim in history. If you are truly open to the mere possibility of Christianity being true then I would recommend reading: "Jesus under fire." - Michael J. Wilkins, JP Moreland. If you are never going to accept it no matter what evidence is presented then your statement I quoted is meaningless. If Christianity is false, then it is the most ridiculous lifestyle that anyone can live. But if it is true, then it takes on a completely new meaning altogether.

See my other post regarding the definition of evidence

Soul Winner

TravelJunkie wrote: »

But, anyone who intentionally goes out to deconvert people is intentionally trying to take away someone's hope.

And they are also trying to convert them to their own world view, which in Malty's case is militant agnosticism. Everyone wants everyone else to agree with their world view. They want to be sure that they are right. But getting as many people to agree with you as possible is not going to make what you believe in to be any more truer than it already is, or any more falser than it already is. It is either true - even before you believe it - or it is false - even before you believe it.

Turtwig

Soul Winner wrote: »

If you are truly open to the mere possibility of Christianity being true then I would recommend reading: "Jesus under fire." - Michael J. Wilkins, JP Moreland. If you are never going to accept it no matter what evidence is presented then your statement I quoted is meaningless. If Christianity is false, then it is the most ridiculous lifestyle that anyone can live. But if it is true, then it takes on a completely new meaning altogether.

Have a big backlog at the moment but I might read it, if you can answer this:
He's not like Lee Strobel is he?

TravelJunkie

patmartino wrote: »

I have an isssue with this statement, why do you need to believe in a deity to give your life hope

No need for it to be an issue. People draw hope from all sorts of things (A poem, a beautiful scene of nature, a baby being born, etc). It's just that christians, would draw hope from God, and I said this purely in context of someone trying to deconvert a christian.

Soul Winner

Malty_T wrote: »

Have a big backlog at the moment but I might read it, if you can answer this:
He's not like Lee Strobel is he?

No. These guys are scholars, whereas Lee is just an ex atheist journalist convinced by the evidence. :rolleyes:

Soul Winner

patmartino wrote: »

See my other post regarding the definition of evidence

Where is it?

Turtwig

Soul Winner wrote: »

No. These guys are scholars,

OK, I might look into it then.

whereas Lee is just an ex atheist journalist convinced by the evidence. :rolleyes:

Good for him, His reasoning usually always sucks though.:p

Turtwig

Soul Winner wrote: »

And they are also trying to convert them to their own world view, which in Malty's case is militant agnosticism. Everyone wants everyone else to agree with their world view. They want to be sure that they are right. But getting as many people to agree with you as possible is not going to make what you believe in to be any more truer than it already is, or any more falser than it already is. It is either true - even before you believe it - or it is false - even before you believe it.

Militant Agnosticism was a joke.:D

Agnosticism isn't a theological position it is merely a qualifier.
All Malty wants is to open minds to other possibility.
Soul, it seems only needs it with regard to ID, I commend your understanding that the numbers supporting a belief doesn't make it true - Ryan Turbridy could do with listening to you.:)

patmartino

Soul Winner wrote: »

And they are also trying to convert them to their own world view, which in Malty's case is militant agnosticism. Everyone wants everyone else to agree with their world view. They want to be sure that they are right. But getting as many people to agree with you as possible is not going to make what you believe in to be any more truer than it already is, or any more falser than it already is. It is either true - even before you believe it - or it is false - even before you believe it.

Religion is designed to appeal to those who are looking for answers. It takes people with weak mallable minds and washes your logic and reasoning away. We live in a country where 90% of people have been indoctrinated into a false belief system. You are always going to be the majority until they are stopped from doing this

Twin-go

Why should we honour God?

For me, we shouldn't. What new thoughts, ideas or direction has "he" brought to the world in last 2,000 years. Nothing. A Farmer cannot mearly sow his fields, wait, then harvest his crop. A farmer is involved throughout with feeding and protecting in order to get the best return. God just put us here and left us to our own devices.

I think we should be honouring the men and women of science, literature and art. People who truly broaden our minds. Make us think. Show us different paths. People that are driving us to the future. God just wants to keep us in the Past, hold us back. For him, if we know too much we don't need him. The truth will come and the truth is not God.

philologos

Malty_T wrote: »

Good for him, His reasoning usually always sucks though.:p

His books are the result of questioning Christians who are involved in dealing with difficult questions concerning God.

If I may ask, what book of his did you read?

patmartino: Please stop trolling and read the Charter.

Religion is designed to appeal to those who are looking for answers. It takes people with weak mallable minds and washes your logic and reasoning away. We live in a country where 90% of people have been indoctrinated into a false belief system. You are always going to be the majority until they are stopped from doing this

Most of us don't agree with you. You provide no backup for your claims that Christianity is false, or that we are weak minded. Therefore there is no value to your posts.

1. The purpose of this forum is to discuss Christian belief in general, and specific elements of it, between Christians and non-Christians alike. This forum has the additional purpose of being a point on Boards.ie where Christians may ask other Christians questions about their shared faith. In this regard, Christians should not have to defend their faith from overt or subtle attack.

5. Arguments such as "There is no God, therefore..." or "The Bible is full of contradictions, therefore..." will not be tolerated. Don't start off with a conclusion which your audience is bound to disagree with!

TravelJunkie

patmartino wrote: »

Religion is designed to appeal to those who are looking for answers. It takes people with weak mallable minds and washes your logic and reasoning away. We live in a country where 90% of people have been indoctrinated into a false belief system. You are always going to be the majority until they are stopped from doing this

Why would you think christians have weak mallable minds? What makes you think its a false belief system?
Some of the christian posters here were ex athiests, and also, scholars of theology. Doesn't sound like weak-mindedness to me.

Everyone in this thread is so negative.

We must think about and focus on the good things, the things worthy of praise and honour.

PDN

Not much point in discussing anything with patmartino - he has been site banned permanently. He is a troll who has been banned from this forum (and from the entire boards.ie site) under at least 10 previous screen names and hasn't the brains to disguise himself.