Attacked by composer!!

Clinker

This is a first for me!!

I was at the Association of Music Lovers concert at IMMA this afternoon, Håkan Vramsmo (baritone) and Andrew West (piano) in Schubert's Winterreise, one of my favourite works. I was enjoying it immensely, and in a world of my own, when composer Gerald Barry (who was sitting two seats away from me) leaned over my neighbour and poked me in the knee. I may have been swinging my foot a little, which must have irritated Barry. I certainly wasn't making any noise, as my neighbour, a friend, confirmed later.

This is unbelievable and totally uncalled-for! Needless to say, I found it impossible to concentrate on the concert after that, though my distraction increased when an unfortunate elderly person behind me fainted during one of the last songs.

Has Gerald Barry not done enough harm to the Irish concertgoing public without assaulting members of the audience? What was he doing there anyway? I wouldn't have thought he was interested in music!

I would have taken it up with him after the concert, but he left too quickly.

Doshea3

He probably just needs a ride in fairness.

Clinker

Doshea3 wrote: »

He probably just needs a ride in fairness.

Well don't we all, but I don't think a shortage of sex is a good excuse for objectionable behaviour in concerts!

TheBandit

Lean over, wisper "Go F*ck yourself Barry" really quietly into his ear and go back to your own world, leave him distracted

The Mad Hatter

*adds this to the list of reasons he almost never goes to concerts*

From what I've heard, Gerald Barry's a jerk anyhow.

sabiansoldier

ha! well thats a sort of a bizarre claim to fame for you I suppose eh? "I pissed off gerald barry at a concert..." by the sound of that hes a complete tool dont mind him.

TimmyTarmac

Tool or not, it's your money that keeps him going to some extent. As a member of the exclusive artists group Aosdana, he gets a 'Cnuas' of almost 18,000 Euro per annum and membership of a defined benefit penison scheme. Yes I know it's hardly Anglo Irish Bank stuff, but it is your tax money. Many of his commissions for new works come from RTE - your license fee money. I could be wrong but it seems to me that many of his (and indeed other Irish contemporary composers) works get one airing at the NCH on a Friday night. The punters in general have come to hear Beethoven or Mozart but have to put up with of these 'gems' for about ten minutes or so, but someone in RTE thinks this is money well spent. The piece will probably never be heard in an Irish concert hall again.
You'd think Mr Barry would refrain from assaulting people who actually go to music events seeing it's likely they contribute in some way to his livelihood.
By the way, I'm all for supporting artists through the State but have a look at the membership of the music section of Aosdana. It seems to me that the Contemporary composers make up a disproportionate number of it's membership. Seeing that you need to be nominated and then elected on to it, it looks like a cosy club for all concerned.

Dirigent

TimmyTarmac wrote: »

Tool or not, it's your money that keeps him going to some extent. As a member of the exclusive artists group Aosdana, he gets a 'Cnuas' of almost 18,000 Euro per annum and membership of a defined benefit penison scheme. Yes I know it's hardly Anglo Irish Bank stuff, but it is your tax money. Many of his commissions for new works come from RTE - your license fee money. I could be wrong but it seems to me that many of his (and indeed other Irish contemporary composers) works get one airing at the NCH on a Friday night. The punters in general have come to hear Beethoven or Mozart but have to put up with of these 'gems' for about ten minutes or so, but someone in RTE thinks this is money well spent. The piece will probably never be heard in an Irish concert hall again.
You'd think Mr Barry would refrain from assaulting people who actually go to music events seeing it's likely they contribute in some way to his livelihood.
By the way, I'm all for supporting artists through the State but have a look at the membership of the music section of Aosdana. It seems to me that the Contemporary composers make up a disproportionate number of it's membership. Seeing that you need to be nominated and then elected on to it, it looks like a cosy club for all concerned.

Yes, it's hardly Anglo Irish or NAMA money. Do you think orchestral composition finished with Mozart and Beethoven? I'm looking foward to hearing the new Cleary work in the NCH tonight, in the same way I'm looking forward to hearing the Shostakovich and the Tchaikovsky in the same programme. They're composers who came through the filter of time, but they also had to start somewhere.

I'm no great fan of Barry's music and if he was to poke me for tapping my leg (which I assure I will be during the magical Little Russian) I would probably respond with a slap after the piece finished, but I think the pittance he gets from Aosdana is much better value than the millions spend on the wasters who sit around the Cabinet table but can't make decisions.

TimmyTarmac

Now now Dirigent. No need to patronise me with a question like that. I'm well aware of the evolving nature of orchestral music here and worldwide. The question of quality or, God forbid, enjoyment of a work is up to the individual concert goer. My beef is with the behaviour of an individual who is perhaps the best known figure in contemporary music here in Ireland. If he does that to Clinker during Schubert, Christ knows what he'd do to me if had a case of the 'numb arse' during one of his works.
As for Irish contemporary music and the filter of time - I'm not so sure. Correct me if I'm wrong here but in the cases of Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky, new works by these two would have been eagarly awaited by a large section of the general public in their own time. The same could be said to some extent of Philip Glass, Peter Maxwell Davies or John Adams. In Ireland, sadly not.
Re: Aosdana, of course money spent here is of far greater benefit to the nation than on the gutless turds at cabinet. It's how it's done I'm not so sure about. As I've mentioned, a look at the music membership of Aosdana at http://aosdana.artscouncil.ie/members.aspx will show that the group is made up mostly of contemporary composers. Only the names of Donal Lunny and Louis Stewart stood out to me as not from that tradition. If membership is limited and the only way in is by peer nomination and election, it could be argued that the makeup of the music membership bears more than a passing resemblance to the board of one of our big banks - except of course the stakes are much much much lower. Still public money, though. It looks to me as if Mr. Barry and his friends are the arbiters of who is and is not worthy to be given the honour of joining Aosdana. I know they don't need the money but it's unlikely that we'll see Bill Whelan or Miceal O Suilleabhain joining any time soon. I'm not suggesting an X factor style phone poll to decide but the fact remains, if these boys and girls from a small part of musical life in Ireland don't rate ya, you're not gettin in.
Enjoy the concert tonight Dirigent and beware of involuntary foot movements. You'd never know who'll be within thumping distance of you!
I'll be listening in the car as I always do and I'm prepared for the first and probably only time I'll hear 'Cockagne' in my lifetime.

Clinker

I'm going along to the NCH myself this evening, and not particularly looking forward to the new Cleary work. I try to keep an open mind, but I usually find my worst fears confirmed within a couple of bars. I don't boo, but I won't clap unless I liked it!

I'm also worrying about who I might find myself sitting beside!

TimmyTarmac

Good luck with that Clinker. If Mr. Barry is going to behave like the leader of a Taliban of concert hall etiquette and musical taste, the least Judith Woodworth and her staff at the NCH can do is give him a uniform and a big stick to do the job properly.

Dirigent

TimmyTarmac wrote: »

Now now Dirigent. No need to patronise me with a question like that.
...
Enjoy the concert tonight Dirigent and beware of involuntary foot movements. You'd never know who'll be within thumping distance of you!
I'll be listening in the car as I always do and I'm prepared for the first and probably only time I'll hear 'Cockagne' in my lifetime.

Timmy, sorry if I sounded patronising earlier, it wasn't my intention. I enjoyed the Cleary, although it was very short (6 minutes) and very MacMillian-esque. It was certainly very well orchestrated. But if Barry was there he'd have beeen mad as I was not the only one tapping their foot to an excellent violin concerto and a fine (if rather slow in parts) Little Russian.

Clinker

Dirigent wrote: »

I enjoyed the Cleary, although it was very short (6 minutes) and very MacMillian-esque.

I can't say I enjoyed the Cleary: pretty bland and familiar (and not terribly unpleasant), as you say, MacMillan, or perhaps Kancheli. I appreciated the brevity: I vividly recall Donnacha Dennehy's Crane on 25 September last: 25 minutes of excruciating torture!!


As for audience behaviour: talking, humming, playing with noisy jewellery, coughing. At least it hasn't descended to cinema levels yet!

TimmyTarmac

Agree 100% Dirigent on Gringolts playing the Prokifiev Concerto except for the break in transmission on Lyric for a few minutes during it. Yerrrrrrraaaaaaagh. Christ, sometimes they make me want to kill. I'm happy to pay a TV license so I can sit in a car and listen to the goings on at the NCH and elsewhere and for the maintenance of professional musical groups. But sometimes they just really try my patience. I suppose thats nothing compared to unleashing Marty Whelan on it 5 days a friggin week. Jesus wept. When he's on I'm hearing unlimited crooners, Mark Knopfler and Van Morrisson. Not the reason Lyric was established.
Anyhoo, that rant is a little off topic. I enjoyed the concert while on the move and I should be thankful there is some 'serious' music left on RTE and on Lyric at all.
As for the audience, Clinker.. Maybe we've wronged Mr Barry afterall. He's just taking a zero tolerance approach!

Clinker

TimmyTarmac wrote: »

Agree 100% Dirigent on Gringolts playing the Prokifiev Concerto except for the break in transmission on Lyric for a few minutes during it. Yerrrrrrraaaaaaagh. Christ, sometimes they make me want to kill. I'm happy to pay a TV license so I can sit in a car and listen to the goings on at the NCH and elsewhere and for the maintenance of professional musical groups. But sometimes they just really try my patience. I suppose thats nothing compared to unleashing Marty Whelan on it 5 days a friggin week. Jesus wept. When he's on I'm hearing unlimited crooners, Mark Knopfler and Van Morrisson. Not the reason Lyric was established.

I do find myself shouting at Lyric and turning it off quite frequently. At least that's only in the car: I can listen to BBC Radio 3 at home. Marty Whelan: as if John Kelly wasn't enough self-satisfied presenter for one station! At least JK occasionally plays proper music, sometimes even the whole piece, not just one movement. Otherwise unheard-of on Lyric, except concerts.

TimmyTarmac wrote: »

As for the audience, Clinker.. Maybe we've wronged Mr Barry afterall. He's just taking a zero tolerance approach!

I disagree: what he did put him in the worst category! Fortunately he doesn't seem to come to many concerts which don't feature his work (at least last Sunday was the first time I saw him at one): another reason to avoid those that do, as if one were needed!

Dirigent

Clinker wrote: »

I do find myself shouting at Lyric and turning it off quite frequently. At least that's only in the car: I can listen to BBC Radio 3 at home. Marty Whelan: as if John Kelly wasn't enough self-satisfied presenter for one station! At least JK occasionally plays proper music, sometimes even the whole piece, not just one movement. Otherwise unheard-of on Lyric, except concerts.



I disagree: what he did put him in the worst category! Fortunately he doesn't seem to come to many concerts which don't feature his work (at least last Sunday was the first time I saw him at one): another reason to avoid those that do, as if one were needed!

Off topic but relevant: Fellow music lovers, can we start a campaign against the dross that Lyric have imposed on us with the likes of the crap that Marty Crappy Whealny inflicits on us? I like the odd Frank Sinatra piece, I admire the talent of Ella Fitz. But two solid hours a day of its-american-it-must-be-good sameness has utterly switched me off. I used to joke with my friends that the best sports programme on any network was The Full Score (Eamon Lawlor's slot before JK was recruited). But for us msuic lovers it beats Jedward on Mooney hands down!

The Mad Hatter

I've figured out the appropriate response to this. Should Barry or some other obnoxious composer ever poke you in the leg again, just take their hand in yours and rest it on your lap. Hold it firmly enough that they can't get it free without making a scene.

Then sit back and enjoy the rest of the concert.

Clinker

Would I really want to do that? Would you? :eek:

Besides on the occasion in question there was another person between me and the obnoxious composer, which made GB's behaviour doubly offensive. Not only did he disturb me, but he put my friend in WTF? mode for the rest of the concert!

The Mad Hatter

Clinker wrote: »

Would I really want to do that? Would you? :eek:

Besides on the occasion in question there was another person between me and the obnoxious composer, which made GB's behaviour doubly offensive. Not only did he disturb me, but he put my friend in WTF? mode for the rest of the concert!

Would I really want to hold Gerald Barry's hand for an hour? No.

Would I be vindictive enough to do everything I could to humiliate some stranger who'd poked me in the leg? Absolutely, and I'd make the sacrifice.

TheBandit

Off to the gallows with you marty, i'm fed up with accidentally switching you on. I am a fan of john kelly though

electrogrimey

'Attacked' is a bit of a strong word for someone poking you in the knee. What I'd give to be able to attack the grannies in the NCH who constantly talk during the performances and rustle sweets and programs. So irritating.

Doshea3

Speaking of irritating concert audiences, I recall being at a particularly shoite NSO concert (on my own) a couple of years back in the NCH of a Friday and getting dirty looks from the aulones beside me when I clapped briefly and unappreciatively after a very very dull performance of Mozart Piano Concerto No. 21 (the one from the film, that one). They thought it was beautiful and gorgeous. I just thought it was crap, but I clearly wasn't entitled to my own opinion in this case, as they looked at me and nudged each other as if I were some uncultured yob.

Is it true Marty Whelan is now on Lyric?? I haven't listened to that station in quite a while. I have a soft spot for Marty Whelan, but WHY ON EARTH is he presenting a show on Lyric? As if Gay Byrne's weekly outing wasn't enough.

Clinker

electrogrimey wrote: »

'Attacked' is a bit of a strong word for someone poking you in the knee.

Yes, but so arresting as a thread title!

evolving_doors

Clinker wrote: »

This is a first for me!!

I may have been swinging my foot a little, which must have irritated Barry.

That'd drive me nuts...(depends on the manner of the swing oscillation though)..
was it..

1. In rhythm with beat of the music (single or double time)..that wouldnt be too bad..
2. Random twitch like ..like the odd tourettes
3. Continuous nervous furious movent as if you really had to go to the jacks..
4. Was it really a 'little' swing or could it have been large enough swing that GB may have feared for the health and safety of the person sitting in front of you..

No fan of GB whatsoever..The NCCA wasted a good oppertunity to show irish leaving cert students that modern music doesn't have to be painful..Long live Marion Ingolsby..

Clinker

Well, until the attack I was in another world with the performers, Schubert, Müller and their traveller, so I can't say anything about the rhythm or phase of the movement. As I am pretty unmusical, it was probably at variance with the musical beat. I can say that it was silent and that the amplitude of the movement was not large, and it really didn't warrant G. Barry leaning over another audience member, poking me and making an impatient gesture at my foot.

Anyway,as I tend to avoid concerts featuring his music, I'm unlikely to encounter him very often again. Unless he makes a habit of going to lieder recitals...