What is a christian

patmartino

In regards to the fact that apparently 90% of Ireland is RC, I would like to ask the experts PDN, Jackass, and Fanny what you believe is required to be a practising christian.

IMO the majority of this country are plastic catholics, they go to weddings funerals etc, but would never attend mass or pray.

Fanny Cradock

I'm most certainly not an expert - just an enthusiast. :pac:

However, I would think that a Christian - as distinct from a cultural Christian - is somebody who accepts the life, death and resurrection of Jesus (broadly speaking, someone who more or less subscribes to the tenets of orthodox Christianity). Importantly, and somewhat nebulously, I would also say that Jesus must be evident in their life somehow. Ultimately, it's not up to any one of us to decide what constitutes a Christian, that's God's department.

Out of curiosity, where are you getting the 90% figure from?

hivizman

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Out of curiosity, where are you getting the 90% figure from?

In the 2006 Census, the population of Ireland was 4,239,848. As many as 3,681,446 (86.8%) described themselves as Roman Catholic (only 540 people stated that they were lapsed Roman Catholic). A further 125,585 (3.0%) were classified as "Church of Ireland (incl. Protestant)", and other designated Christian churches and sects, such as Orthodox, Presbyterian and Methodist, accounted for a further 115,335 (2.7%). So 92.5% of the Irish population was described as Christian. 42,918 people (1.0%) were identified as of other faiths (mainly Muslim, but also Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, and a few Pantheist and Baha'i). 138,264 people (3.2%) stated that they had no religion, and the remainder did not answer the religion question.

This suggests to me that most people in Ireland consider themselves Roman Catholic because they were baptised or their parents were, even if they don't go to Mass on a regular basis (or even at all).

colsku

A Christian is a deluded, weak and lacking human being, who must cling on to the idea of a having a greater life after they die.

They have no proof, only misguided hope.

They have no friends, besides the fabled Jesus of Nazereth.

They are Christian.

A few words taken from the Book of Logic, Colsku 1:1

Xluna

colsku wrote: »

A Christian is a deluded, weak and lacking human being, who must cling on to the idea of a having a greater life after they die.

They have no proof, only misguided hope.

They have no friends, besides the fabled Jesus of Nazereth.

They are Christian.

A few words taken from the Book of Logic, Colsku 1:1

Even by my standards that's a bit harsh...

homer911

I would extend what Fanny Craddock has said by adding that a Christian is someone who recognises their own inherant sinfulness, has placed their trust in Jesus as their personal saviour and has asked God for forgiveness.

Christians may or may not call this a born-again experience, but in essence that is what has happened, because the old self is dead, and you are a new creation in God's eyes

Fanny Cradock

colsku wrote: »

A Christian is a deluded, weak and lacking human being, who must cling on to the idea of a having a greater life after they die.

They have no proof, only misguided hope.

They have no friends, besides the fabled Jesus of Nazereth.

They are Christian.

A few words taken from the Book of Logic, Colsku 1:1

I wonder have you been emotionally injured by a Christian in the past? It certainly would go to explaining your ridiculous opinions.

Anyway, try the same stunt again and you get banned.

AtomicHorror

colsku wrote: »

A Christian is a deluded, weak and lacking human being, who must cling on to the idea of a having a greater life after they die.

They have no proof, only misguided hope.

They have no friends, besides the fabled Jesus of Nazereth.

They are Christian.

A few words taken from the Book of Logic, Colsku 1:1

Speaking as a fully convinced atheist who would like to see organised religion vanish from the face of the Earth, I don't see much logic in your post. You seem to be putting yourself forward as some sort of straight talking educator of the deluded. So some words of advice for you. I see some bitterness, which I sure share. I see a lot of anger, which I get. I see cruel words, which I cannot fathom at all. Neither bitterness or anger is any help here. Cruelty is the opposite of helpful. And I see some stuff that's just untrue. No friends but Jesus, eh? Wow, that's not even in the ball park of being supported with evidence, is it?

Look, we non-believers don't have any particular right to come onto this forum at all, let alone starting rows. We're here, and are permitted to make some very challenging comments, because of the good will shown to us by the mods and the people for whom this forum was made. We are guests of the Christians. Whatever your convictions, when you're a guest a certain standard of behaviour is reasonably expected. That doesn't mean you have to agree with even one word of what your hosts have to say, but you sure can't go around insulting people. Of course, you can chose to ignore that standard if you're willing to accept the consequences, but I think I can safely say that the rest of us "guests" would really appreciate it you just kept your hazy directionless anger to yourself. You're not going to convince anyone with those words and you're not helping us to do so either. You're threatening that good will, which means that as well as needlessly hurting people you're also reducing our chances of convincing anyone of our position. Please don't feel like you have to speak on our behalf ever again. Cheers.

Turtwig

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Look, we non-believers don't have any particular right to come onto this forum at all, let alone starting rows. We're here, and are permitted to make some very challenging comments, because of the good will shown to us by the mods and the people for whom this forum was made. We are guests of the Christians. Whatever your convictions, when you're a guest a certain standard of behaviour is reasonably expected. That doesn't mean you have to agree with even one word of what your hosts have to say, but you sure can't go around insulting people. Of course, you can chose to ignore that standard if you're willing to accept the consequences, but I think I can safely say that the rest of us "guests" would really appreciate it you just kept your hazy directionless anger to yourself. You're not going to convince anyone with those words and you're not helping us to do so either. You're threatening that good will, which means that as well as needlessly hurting people you're also reducing our chances of convincing anyone of our position. Please don't feel like you have to speak on our behalf ever again. Cheers.

Wow, I'm bookmarking this for future annoying trollish remarks made here..:)

kelly1

patmartino wrote: »

In regards to the fact that apparently 90% of Ireland is RC, I would like to ask the experts PDN, Jackass, and Fanny what you believe is required to be a practising christian.

Hello, In a nutshell, I think Christianity is about this:

Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these.

The Christian religion is fundamentally about LOVE of God and neighbour. It's about becoming the person that God wants us to be with Jesus as the model that we should aspire to. The more more we practice charity, the more we become united to God in this life and the next. Our degree of glory in Heaven i.e. the extent to which we are united to Christ is determined by how much we love God and neighbour in this pilgrimage towards our ultimate destiny which is an intimate sharing in the divine life of God.

Sounds good to me!

God bless,
Noel.

BrianCalgary

A Christian is one who has accepted Jesus as their Lord and saviour. One who has put their trust in living the life that God has mapped out for them.

As to what a Christian believes I like teh Apostles Creed as a good statement of faith.

liamw

Hey Pat, you should check out this thread

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055728644

patmartino

I did and I read it at the time.

PDN wrote: »

So your point is that there are 33,000 groups of Christians, most of which are in broad agreement and recognise each other as Christians. But that there are a couple of groups that are more exclusive and are viewed as atypical.

Then I'm glad we're in agreement, although somewhat mystified as to what the point of the point is.

Ok PDN the point is

Why if you were all in agreement with each other would you need 35,000 + groups.
What about Hindus.
What about Jews.
What about Muslims.

Rb

There'd be a lot less Christians in the census if more people filled it out themselves and didn't leave it up to their Catholic mammies to do

PDN

patmartino wrote: »

Ok PDN the point is

Why if you were all in agreement with each other would you need 35,000 + groups.

Some groups choose to elect their leaders, others allow their leaders to nominate their successors. Some groups allow all their members to vote on decisions, others allow their clergy to vote on decisions, some groups don't vote at all. So methods of church government, rather than doctrines or beliefs, account for many of the splits that have occurred.

Some movements, while holding the same beliefs, stress different aspects of Christianity more than others. eg the Salvation Army began in order to place more stress on helping the poor than the existing Methodist Church from which they came.

Other groups began in differing cultural contexts or split from one another over personality differences (being composed of human beings with their vanities etc.)

Other denominations and groups differ on minor points of doctrine while recognising that these are not essential to salvation, and so happily recognise each other as being true Christians. For example, most Baptists believe in%

Red Alert

I believe a Christian follows (or tries to follow) the message and teachings of Jesus in their worship and more importantly in their daily life. The actual denomination they do through - whether Catholicism, Orthodox, Protestantism, Baptist etc is for the most part irrelevant. However, it's not Christian for some groups to warp the message of Jesus to fit their own agenda or to be used for purposes of control.

BrianCalgary

patmartino wrote: »

I did and I read it at the time.



Ok PDN the point is

Why if you were all in agreement with each other would you need 35,000 + groups.

We are in agreement with the basic tenets of Christian belief, ie: teh Apostles Creed.

We differ on church government, we emphasis different works: evangelism, humanitarian work, local vs regional vs international.

We differ on style of worship: liturgical vs spirit led as an example.

time42play

patmartino wrote: »

IMO the majority of this country are plastic catholics, they go to weddings funerals etc, but would never attend mass or pray.

My OH is one of them. In the last census we had a huge row over how to answer that question - I insisted that I be listed as "no religion", which he considered the "wrong" answer. He considers himself "catholic" though if there's ever any prayer involved I've never seen a sign of it. He does not attend mass unless he needs to go to a funeral or a wedding. I'm guessing it's probably the childhood indoctrination and perhaps loyalty to his (deceased) parents who were extremely devout.

Unlike him, I spent most of my education in schools with no religious element so my indoctrination was rather spotty. My mother - while nowhere near as devout as his was - does pray and buy mass cards and light candles (and watches mass on television weekly). My father is the wedding-and-funeral variety. What with all the doctrine I disagree with, the fact that I'd rather have teeth pulled than go to mass, and the fact that I can't ever remember praying, I decided that trying to call myself a "catholic" was just out-and-out lying.

rohatch

BrianCalgary wrote: »

We are in agreement with the basic tenets of Christian belief, ie: teh Apostles Creed.

We differ on church government, we emphasis different works: evangelism, humanitarian work, local vs regional vs international.

We differ on style of worship: liturgical vs spirit led as an example.

Bur surely if there was one true god there would only be one single set of rules, and the other 5 billion people on the planet would have no need to worship differently.

Graces7

So then we would be.. clones? Which is often why differences between traditions become so exaggerated and heated.... Because many seek to control others.

We have different cultures and skin colours; different languages and sizes.. and we enjoy different ways and music.

A wise person we know calls the differences "window dressing."

Many here in Ireland attack other traditions; and to argue makes the divisions greater.

Now when someone tried that, we look them full in the eye and say" There is only Jesus."

It stops most in their tracks.

Because at base that is the truth and the utter simplicity that is all there is.

He is there and the gospels are there.

Were it not that simple, just now we could not endure what is happening in the Church here now.

rohatch wrote: »

Bur surely if there was one true god there would only be one single set of rules, and the other 5 billion people on the planet would have no need to worship differently.