Unreliable Dublin bus timetables

louglee

Is it just me or does the bus timetable never live up to expectation. last sunday I was waiting over an hour for a 38 in o'connell street despite the fact that there was supposed to 4 buses running in that time. another morning I was waiting out near Blanch and there were no buses for 40 mins despite the fact that there was supposed to be a bus at 7:30, 7:35, 7:40, 7:50, called dublin bus they said there was no driver for the 7:30 but couldn't find anything wrong with the rest so they they just vanish into thin air.
If you look at the bus stop in Main Street, Blanch it says that the 70x and 39b stop there but I've yet to meet a bus that does, there is also small things like they say they go via the hospital but don't, these are the bus timetables on the web so I assume that they are correct. I've lived in Blanch for all of 3 weeks and this is only half of the stuff thats happened (leaving out the fact that a bus broke my foot)
I though dublin was supposed to have a great bus service or si it just me?

Cookie_Monster

welcome to Dublin:p;)

louglee

I thought galway was bad, you'd miss a bus you might as well walk because you probably get to where you were headed before the bus would even come.

MiniD

louglee wrote: »

last sunday I was waiting over an hour for a 38 in o'connell street despite the fact that there was supposed to 4 buses running in that time.

What timetable are you reading? The 38 /38A has an average 30 minute frequency on a Sunday. At no point on the timetable is there 4 buses scheduled in the hour.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/38a/

Unfortunately there is very limited bus priority in Dublin, so the slightest accident/concert/football match/bad weather/diversion throws the schedule into chaos. There are horror stories of buses taking over 2 hours to complete a journey. It's impossible to keep buses to the timetable.

sickpuppy32

its called "leapfrogging" and its a practice that'll get you fired in most bus companies around the world except of course in this one. This rioute is the most notorious route for it as well. The bus driver gets to the end of the line and stops to have a rest/smoke/ chat with the driver having a rest in front of him. They wait till they have about 3/4 drivers all rested and ready to go after say 40 minutes and then head off together. they then "leapfrog" around their buses at every bus stop so each bus only needs to stop at most at every third one. Benefit is less annoying passengers, they arrive faster into town and they have a get a good rest before journeys.

L1011

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

its called "leapfrogging" and its a practice that'll get you fired in most bus companies around the world except of course in this one. This rioute is the most notorious route for it as well. The bus driver gets to the end of the line and stops to have a rest/smoke/ chat with the driver having a rest in front of him. They wait till they have about 3/4 drivers all rested and ready to go after say 40 minutes and then head off together. they then "leapfrog" around their buses at every bus stop so each bus only needs to stop at most at every third one. Benefit is less annoying passengers, they arrive faster into town and they have a get a good rest before journeys.

...and the quickest and probably only way to sort this out (for that day only) is to phone the depot and shout at the controller, as I've done when I could see two 66's hiding in the turning bay in Maynooth one evening.

louglee

MiniD wrote: »

What timetable are you reading? The 38 /38A has an average 30 minute frequency on a Sunday. At no point on the timetable is there 4 buses scheduled in the hour.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/38a/

Unfortunately there is very limited bus priority in Dublin, so the slightest accident/concert/football match/bad weather/diversion throws the schedule into chaos. There are horror stories of buses taking over 2 hours to complete a journey. It's impossible to keep buses to the timetable.

I got there 5 mins before bus was due and it was a time where there was one every 20 mins (including the 38c) therefore the 15 past (c) 20 past (38) 50 past and 20 past - the final one arrived

ArmaniJeanss

You may know this already but the timetable that you see in Main Street Blanchardstown isn't the time that the bus is due at. Its actually just the time that the bus is scheduled to leave the terminus at. This might explain perhaps why you haven't seen a 39B or 70X at the time you are expecting to.

Also the 38 timetable is misleading if you are looking at it in Main St, as half the buses (the 38A buses) actually bypass Blanchardstown completely.

The 38c isn't scheduled for any stop in Main St Blanchardstown on its way into town, it stops on 'Hospital Road' just before Main Street, turns left and then stops across from the Bell pub.

Plenty of 39s though will leave you into town.

louglee

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

You may know this already but the timetable that you see in Main Street Blanchardstown isn't the time that the bus is due at. Its actually just the time that the bus is scheduled to leave the terminus at. This might explain perhaps why you haven't seen a 39B or 70X at the time you are expecting to.

Also the 38 timetable is misleading if you are looking at it in Main St, as half the buses (the 38A buses) actually bypass Blanchardstown completely.

The 38c isn't scheduled for any stop in Main St Blanchardstown on its way into town, it stops on 'Hospital Road' just before Main Street, turns left and then stops across from the Bell pub.

Plenty of 39s though will leave you into town.

don't get bus at main st. know they(39b and 70x) don't go through because many evenings I've taken them they always go by bypass, live beside hospital so either 38\a\c does me fine
I've seen the 39 timetable - I'm envious

devnull

There is also a big problem on this, and also the 38/39's where the buses will NOT overtake under any circumstance that will lead to bunching.

Eg Bus 1 will pull into bus stop to drop off passengers on a road with a few lanes another bus behind will also pull in despite the fact it is not alighting/picking anyone up and will do this for the whole journey to prevent overtaking and picking up any passengers, it's made even more amusing when you occasionally see a bus on another route, that will overtake both of them at one stop.

angel01

Are you serious with "I thought Dublin was supposed to have a good bus service" :eek::eek:

ParkRunner

For what its worth, if you can make it to one of the train stations, those timetables are a bit more reliable. I dont even bother looking at the 38/39/70 timetables as the buses rarely stick to them.

meanmachine3

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

its called "leapfrogging" and its a practice that'll get you fired in most bus companies around the world except of course in this one. This rioute is the most notorious route for it as well. The bus driver gets to the end of the line and stops to have a rest/smoke/ chat with the driver having a rest in front of him. They wait till they have about 3/4 drivers all rested and ready to go after say 40 minutes and then head off together. they then "leapfrog" around their buses at every bus stop so each bus only needs to stop at most at every third one. Benefit is less annoying passengers, they arrive faster into town and they have a get a good rest before journeys.

best joke i've heard in years.where does this inaccurate information come from

meanmachine3

louglee wrote: »

Is it just me or does the bus timetable never live up to expectation. last sunday I was waiting over an hour for a 38 in o'connell street despite the fact that there was supposed to 4 buses running in that time. another morning I was waiting out near Blanch and there were no buses for 40 mins despite the fact that there was supposed to be a bus at 7:30, 7:35, 7:40, 7:50, called dublin bus they said there was no driver for the 7:30 but couldn't find anything wrong with the rest so they they just vanish into thin air.
If you look at the bus stop in Main Street, Blanch it says that the 70x and 39b stop there but I've yet to meet a bus that does, there is also small things like they say they go via the hospital but don't, these are the bus timetables on the web so I assume that they are correct. I've lived in Blanch for all of 3 weeks and this is only half of the stuff thats happened (leaving out the fact that a bus broke my foot)
I though dublin was supposed to have a great bus service or si it just me?

if you've a real problem with buses not turning up i suggest this. have the garage phone number on speed dial in your mobile as most regular commuters out that way have. and if there a problem with buses not showing up ring the garage straight away.

MiniD

louglee wrote: »

I got there 5 mins before bus was due and it was a time where there was one every 20 mins (including the 38c) therefore the 15 past (c) 20 past (38) 50 past and 20 past - the final one arrived

Can you point out where these are listed on the timetable? Just to clarify, for the most part of Sunday, there is a 38 once an hour, a 38A once an hour and a 38C every two hours.

live beside hospital so either 38\a\c does me fine
I've seen the 39 timetable - I'm envious

I'm a bit confused. You mentioned you don't get the bus at Main Street, but this is where the 38 stops isn't it?

KC61

I think the OP is referring to:
1915 38c
1920 38
1950 38a
2020 38

For three buses not to show up is extremely unusual and very bad luck. That simply should not happen.

As other posters suggest, keep the garage number in your mobile and ring them up if in doubt.

Terrontress

In order to have a decent bus service, comparable to that which London has, the resources required are just immense. Next time you are on a bus in London, look in the driver's cab. They have a little timer which tells them how far ahead of or behind schedule they are and they regulate their speed accordingly. The bus stops also have a timer to tell you when the next bus will come.

If a bus gets to a stop with nobody at it, nobody looking to get off and they are ahead of schedule, they will stop anyway!

Few bus stops give exact times of when the buses will arrive. Usually just for very early or late services or infrequent (every 30 minutes) services. They just state the approximate frequency of buses, e.g. every 8 minutes although you may get 2 showing up at once. Those which do give a time, you can bet your bottom dollar that the buses will show up 2 minutes either way of the time on that particular bus stop. Not just a generic time for the route.

It is VERY reliable but very expensive to operate. And in this environment, Dublin Bus are not going to do it.

They have the same buses. Volvo Alexanders, Wirghts etc. Put the two side by side and from the outside you have a bus identical except for the colour, a driver same as any other, a ticket machine, a cash box and routes of similar length.

The difference is all down to management. Drivers give their best in both Dublin and London but the resources and will behind the scene just aren't there in Dublin to make it world class.

Terrontress

No difference between the buses or the drivers.

antoinolachtnai

Terrontress wrote: »

In order to have a decent bus service, comparable to that which London has, the resources required are just immense.

I don't know. You do need operational excellence, but the resources are certainly not immense. All the gadgets are certainly a big help for managing and monitoring, but they are by no means essential.

The gadgets and technology themselves are actually quite cheap in the grand scale of things. The big issue is the work practices and organizational change.

Most of the improvement over the last five years on London Buses has been due to the reduction in congestion and the improvement in contracting practices. Technology plays a role, but it's not the whole thing.

The difference is all down to management. Drivers give their best in both Dublin and London but the resources and will behind the scene just aren't there in Dublin to make it world class.

HR is a big issue though. It's all about motivation. Motivation is definitely an issue for Dublin Bus drivers.

Dublin Bus is actually very overcapitalised. There has been an awful lot of money poured into it.

Also, the route system on Dublin Bus is very poor. Pretty much everyone accepts this.

Terrontress

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I don't know. You do need operational excellence, but the resources are certainly not immense. All the gadgets are certainly a big help for managing and monitoring, but they are by no means essential.

The gadgets and technology themselves are actually quite cheap in the grand scale of things. The big issue is the work practices and organizational change.

Most of the improvement over the last five years on London Buses has been due to the reduction in congestion and the improvement in contracting practices. Technology plays a role, but it's not the whole thing.



HR is a big issue though. It's all about motivation. Motivation is definitely an issue for Dublin Bus drivers.

Dublin Bus is actually very overcapitalised. There has been an awful lot of money poured into it.

Also, the route system on Dublin Bus is very poor. Pretty much everyone accepts this.

I once read that the buses had been in decline for 50 years and Ken Livingstone made massive investment which saw the first increase in bus passengers.

There is no doubt that the majority of Dublin Bus drivers are well intentioned so I thought the technology had to be the issue.

The whole notion of being in Donnybrook, waiting for an 11 bus heading south and having to work out how long it will take a bus to get from the Phoenix Park to there is just a nonsense.

I think that that is the main difference with London buses when compared to Dublin Bus. Information at each London bus stop is relevant to that stop.

Don't forget, the Londoners also have such niceties as the tube and the overland network that Dublin does not have so in reality it should be Dublin's buses which are miles ahead.

meanmachine3

Terrontress wrote: »

In order to have a decent bus service, comparable to that which London has, the resources required are just immense. Next time you are on a bus in London, look in the driver's cab. They have a little timer which tells them how far ahead of or behind schedule they are and they regulate their speed accordingly. The bus stops also have a timer to tell you when the next bus will come.

If a bus gets to a stop with nobody at it, nobody looking to get off and they are ahead of schedule, they will stop anyway!

Few bus stops give exact times of when the buses will arrive. Usually just for very early or late services or infrequent (every 30 minutes) services. They just state the approximate frequency of buses, e.g. every 8 minutes although you may get 2 showing up at once. Those which do give a time, you can bet your bottom dollar that the buses will show up 2 minutes either way of the time on that particular bus stop. Not just a generic time for the route.

It is VERY reliable but very expensive to operate. And in this environment, Dublin Bus are not going to do it.

They have the same buses. Volvo Alexanders, Wirghts etc. Put the two side by side and from the outside you have a bus identical except for the colour, a driver same as any other, a ticket machine, a cash box and routes of similar length.

The difference is all down to management. Drivers give their best in both Dublin and London but the resources and will behind the scene just aren't there in Dublin to make it world class.

well said terrontress but your also leaving one major factor out which will never happen in dublin or ireland. in london buses have right of way in most cases. there is zero tollerence when it comes to illegal use of bus stops and bus lanes by everyone. when a bus indicates to pull away from a stop all traffic must give it right of way. i have a letter from our own minister of transport stating that will never happen here.

bk

Aren't Dublin Bus preparing to introduce a GPS based tracking system, similar to London Bus?

This technology isn't particularly expensive or new any more, it is basically an iphone after all.

Yes DB may use the same buses and have just as good drivers, but DB management and the Irish Government seem to lack the will to really make it work. The difference between LB and DB is in the details and it is those details that make it work:

1) GPS tracking realtime system.
2) Single fare system
3) Integrated electronic ticketing
4) Cheap e-ticket, expensive cash ticket.
5) Decent website with good map's, routes, etc.
6) Bus right of way
7) Enforcement of Bus Lanes
8) More bus priority developments like the Bus Gate and the balls to keep with it.

It isn't rocket science, just copy London Bus.

Polar101

louglee wrote: »

I've seen the 39 timetable - I'm envious

It doesn't really have anything to do with reality, and it takes 75 minutes from Ongar to town. So no need to envy us 39'ers.

Nevyn

The bus time table doesn't reflect what the route is like in reality, even with the 39 time table you can still have buses go missing and be waiting 30 mins for a bus have buses too packed before getting even to the shopping centre so you can't get on them and then the journey time can vary form 50 mins to 90 mins.

snappieT

This sort of "missing bus" carry on was happening on the 123 route also. They started putting people at the terminus with a clipboard to monitor when each bus left etc. etc, and suddenly the service was good. When they stopped the monitoring, it went to sh*t again.
Now they have people monitoring each bus again, but they stand further up the road, and are well hidden. I'm very impressed Dublin Bus went to these lengths to get accurate departure information.

Of course, doing this forever isn't scalable. I see no reason why the speedometer isn't linked up to the ticket machine. When the route begins, driver presses a button. Verify route has begun by fact that bus is moving (and continues to move). Reconcile scheduled departures with actual departures, and pull drivers up for departing late/not at all!

AlekSmart

It is VERY reliable but very expensive to operate. And in this environment, Dublin Bus are not going to do it.

I would echo Terrontress`s remarks.

In the current climate it`s worth referring to the 2010 round of Fare INCREASES on TfL services announced by Mayor of London,Boris Johnson.

Boris,of course lays off some of the blame on his meteroic predecessor Ken Livingston but there`s no escaping the reality Taxpayer subsidies for Bus services having increased from £24 Million in 2000 to £604 Million (!!) in 2009...and thats BUS only.....

So,Bus Fares will increase by 12.7% and Tube fares by 3.9%.

The London experience shows quite graphically that there is NO cheap way to provide effective,efficient,co-ordinated Public Transport for a Capital City and environs.
Remember that the London "Model" is widely regarded as THE best co-operative venture between Public and Private ethos in the British Isles Public Transport arena.
It has had some of the best Public Administration brains allied to the most adept of Private Sector management and operational talent but remains in quite a perilious position vis-a-vis it`s viability.
It`s not for nothing that the mighty Stagecoach Plc sold off it`s London Bus operations sometime back,expressing dissatisfaction with what it`s management felt was a poor environment commercially (Loosely Translated as meaning Not Enough Bottom Line )

Its interesting to see that the "Savings" being demanded from TfL largely match what our entire sodden little country is expected to bear this year (£5 Billion)

Anyway it`s just a bit of balance to the "Everywhere else is Great" philosophy which we tend to end up believing a wee bit too much these days....

Read some more here.....http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=23978

antoinolachtnai

Moving people and things is a big cost in our economy, no way around it. Any service you hire or product you buy, a large proportion of the cost arises from transport costs. So no one should be surprised that transport is expensive.

However, London is really an exceptional city. It is exceptional in so many ways. It's so old, the roads are generally so narrow, there are so many people in it, it's so big, it's so rich, and so on. It is also quite different from Dublin in that the mainstay of its transport system is rail, not buses.

The subsidy for the buses is not really that big compared to Dublin when you gross it up. The subsidy is around 100m here, maybe a bit more. It's 600m stg there. Their system is an awful lot bigger. The number I see is 6800 buses, almost 7 times what we have on the road here. Also, their fares are lower, and the cost of living and therefore of employing staff there is not cheap.

There are other examples of cities in the United Kingdom with decent public transport systems. None of them have the drama and scale of London, but they are perfectly decent.

There is nothing 'cooperative' about the London model. It is very much a government-led and controlled model. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that per se. However, I have to vehemently agree with Alek that they have extremely brainy, experienced people running the thing and that that is critical to making it work.

I wouldn't say that TfL is in peril as regards its viability. It is basically delivering for London. Everyone would prefer if it were cheaper to run, but what else is new? They have the money to support it, it's right for their needs, so they go on. I would sympathise with your friends at Stagecoach mind you - tendering for bus contracts in London looks like murder.

The Underground, rather than the buses, are the big money sink in London transport. The cost of maintaining a metro system blows the mind.

bk

AlekSmart wrote: »

Boris,of course lays off some of the blame on his meteroic predecessor Ken Livingston but there`s no escaping the reality Taxpayer subsidies for Bus services having increased from £24 Million in 2000 to £604 Million (!!) in 2009...and thats BUS only.....

That is interesting, lets do the maths.

£604 Million is €670 Million

London has a population of 14 million so that works out at less then €48 Million per million people.

2008 Dublin Bus subsidy €80 Million for 1 million people.

So the DB subsidy is almost double while giving a far inferior service.

There is no reason why DB shouldn't have many of the features of London Bus. One fare for all journey distances, electronic and integrated ticketing, GPS tracking of buses, bus stop electronic signs, decent transport website, integration with other public transport, etc.

snappieT the new GPS tracking and monitoring systems at bases should be able to put a stop to this sort of nonsense, without the need of inspectors hiding behind bushes.

antoinolachtnai

bk: In fairness, TfL also has the Tube, which is the mainstay of London public transport.

It is easier to compare the subsidy/bus rather than the subsidy/inhabitant. (6800 buses in London, apparently.)

The subsidy to Dublin Bus is a lot more than 80m. That is a 'headline' figure, but it does not include the capital grants (you will see these under the 'depreciation' note in the DB accounts) or the cross-subsidy from DB's commercial activities (which you will see from the note where income and costs are analysed).

KC61

I think people need to realise that this is actually starting to happen at last.

At the moment the new Automatic Vehicle Location & Control (AVLC) system using GPS technology is now being rolled out in Dublin Bus.

This has started in Summerhill Garage with the buses operating on route 123 as a pilot and will then be rolled out to the entire fleet and depots during 2010.

This will finally give controllers accurate information about the location of each vehicle on every bus route, which will lead to better control and regulation of the service, and eliminate the possiblity of buses leaving late/early as suggested above.

It is important to note that DB management wanted this some years back, but funding from the Department of Transport was withheld, delaying its implementation.

This will also finally give schedulers accurate information about running times on bus routes at different times of the day, and will facilitate more realistic scheduling and intermediate times.

The provision of on-bus information will also follow this scheme - buses are being fitted out with electronic information systems.

The provision of on-street information will follow also, however this is being implemented by Dublin City Council (apparently out of a governmental fear of potential unfair competition/funding litigation from other operators), and will probably start to happen in late 2010/early 2011.

Further information is located at:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Projects/RTPI/

There are various improvements in the pipeline, in terms of passenger information such as spider maps (including a new network map), intermediate timing points, clockface schedules.

Indeed a full network review is currently ongoing which will be implemented in 2010, which I understand will see a complete makeover in the design and scheduling of services, with the emphasis on standard clockface timetabes wherever possible and grouping of services along corridors for scheduling purposes, which hopefully will eliminate some of the gaps in service. Much of the work is ongoing in the background at the moment, but I do believe that there is a will to deliver serious improvements within the company, and that these should start appearing in the new year.

KC61

Again, people need to understand that fares are set by the Department of Transport and not Dublin Bus.

At the time of the EURO changeover Dublin Bus wanted to introduce a flat fare system, but this was vetoed by the DoT.

As I said in another thread:

The principal reason that we don’t have integrated tickets like (for example the Oyster Card in London) is because the Dept of Transport (through the RPA) is trying to build an unholy monster of an integrated ticketing system, rather than keeping it simple.

In London, there is a flat fare on all bus routes, and the fare structure offered by Oyster encourages pre-purchase by rewarding regular users with large discounts. Secondly, in London the money collected is kept by the regulator (TfL), and the bus companies are then paid a fixed amount for running the bus service by TfL, so the operator gets the same money if the bus is full or empty.

In Dublin the Department want to share the money between all of the different bus companies for every journey made. They also want to have different fares for different journeys (or indeed bus companies), and to have most people still paying single fares. Trying to do this with an integrated ticketing system is too complex and bureaucratic, and is costing an absolute fortune to develop.

In order to have simple (London style) integrated ticketing, people need to start lobbying for a city wide flat fare, with the new regulator (DTA) keeping the money (as the RPA does with LUAS) and paying a fixed rate to bus companies for providing the services.

The individual bus operators do not want this approach, because it takes away their independence, despite the fact that it is most definitely the best for the customer, the bus user.

bk

KC61 wrote: »

The provision of on-street information will follow also, however this is being implemented by Dublin City Council (apparently out of a governmental fear of potential unfair competition/funding litigation from other operators), and will probably start to happen in late 2010/early 2011.

Prior to this will they at least implement a web based and text based information system?

KC61

bk wrote: »

Prior to this will they at least implement a web based and text based information system?

Well reading the link from the Dublin Bus website, that is the plan.

They appear to be on target, as the rollout on route 123 started in early October.

AlekSmart

This will finally give controllers accurate information about the location of each vehicle on every bus route, which will lead to better control and regulation of the service, and eliminate the possiblity of buses leaving late/early as suggested above.

It is important to note that DB management wanted this some years back, but funding from the Department of Transport was withheld, delaying its implementation.

This will also finally give schedulers accurate information about running times on bus routes at different times of the day, and will facilitate more realistic scheduling and intermediate times.

KC61`s points are all valid,but it is important to take note of some of the other issues also ....

Again, people need to understand that fares are set by the Department of Transport and not Dublin Bus.

At the time of the EURO changeover Dublin Bus wanted to introduce a flat fare system, but this was vetoed by the DoT.

In Dublin the Department want to share the money between all of the different bus companies for every journey made. They also want to have different fares for different journeys (or indeed bus companies), and to have most people still paying single fares. Trying to do this with an integrated ticketing system is too complex and bureaucratic, and is costing an absolute fortune to develop.

In order to have simple (London style) integrated ticketing, people need to start lobbying for a city wide flat fare, with the new regulator (DTA) keeping the money (as the RPA does with LUAS) and paying a fixed rate to bus companies for providing the services.

The individual bus operators do not want this approach, because it takes away their independence, despite the fact that it is most definitely the best for the customer, the bus user.

There is no indication as yet that the Department of Transport has altered any of it`s long held policies in regard to Fares,Ticketing and more importantly the usage of electronic technology to allow fully flexible surface travel.

As I referred to earlier,the TfL model,as Antoin states is highly centralized in ethos and does not sit well with many private sector firms,as demonstrated by the Stagecoach withdrawal.

At that time mention was made of the Stagecoach operating requirement being an 18% return on its investment,once the TfL level of control threatened that the company decided that enough was enough,eventually selling out to Australian Venture Capital Bank Macquarie for £260 Million...a figure which reportedly gave Stagecoach a consolidated gain of £120 Million.

The current reality of the roll-out of new technology for Dublin Bus is that it is virtually all an in-house venture with little enthusiasm for joint City/Company cooperation.

Old institutional rivalries die-hard and nowhere is this better illustrated than in Dublin.
When the then Dublin Corporation installed it`s city-wide Traffic Monitoring cameras each Dublin Bus Depot Control Room had a live feed which route controllers could access in real time.

As the system grew it dawned on The Corpo that it could perhaps turn a few bob on its new toy and a demand was issued to Dublin Bus for a substantial fee for the continued use of the system.

Not surprisingly Dublin Bus demurred and the feeds were removed ASAP.

Unlike London or most major European cities whose Adminstrators view traffic and public transport as being very much interdependent we in Dublin see absolutely nothing wrong with every agency being totally self engrossed to the point of ignorance...little surprise that huge potentially magnificent pieces of infrastructure such as the Port Access Tunnel remain underutilised with no real impression of anybody actually giving a damn.

In Dublin,The new Dublin Bus Control Centre itself will be a stand-alone Dublin Bus facility,with only telephone connections to the DCC Central Traffic Control.

This is a far cry from TfL`s CentreComm both in principle and in execution as yet again NOBODY appears to know who`s responsible for what...nor do they overly care...:rolleyes:

Again,I would agree with Antoin on the subject of technology in general..it is all highly desirable,it is undoubtedly the way of the future,BUT it ain`t worth a hill o`beans unless those using it actually have a comprehension of what their end-game actually is. :rolleyes:

Victor

KC61 wrote: »

The provision of on-street information will follow also, however this is being implemented by Dublin City Council (apparently out of a governmental fear of potential unfair competition/funding litigation from other operators), and will probably start to happen in late 2010/early 2011.

This makes practical sense as the council has a large fibre optic network for traffic management and it will need to be tied to the traffic management system anyway.

antoinolachtnai

You think it would be worth trenching the road to put in a duct to run fiber to bus stops? I'd be surprised.

Re Dublin Bus and DCC - Dublin Bus is a commercial entity, and it is supposed to pay commercial prices for the services it consumes. It is not a state agency.

Personally, I am all for the suggestion that Dublin Bus be allowed round up and commandeer any of the resources it needs to run the service without payment, but the unions would no doubt oppose it on some or other spurious grounds.

The fact of TfL being centralized is not really tied to interest from the private sector. Many private sector companies *love* centralization. Stagecoach's problem was that the margin was just too small for them to be involved in the business, so they had to exit. It was nothing to do with centralization. It was more to do with the nature of the competition.

The issue with centralisation, for me, is that you need incredibly brainy, knowledgeable, proactive people to do the central planning. I have good reason to believe that these people do not exist in this city, and I don't know where they are suddenly going to appear from.

NTA does in fact have control over ticket pricing on public service services - all ticket prices, not just cash fares -.I don't think that the DoT has any deeply held beliefs about anything to do with public transport. It is more that they were unwilling to change anything.

The problem with messing with fares is that you can very easily end up with a giant hole in your end-of-year figures, and it is very difficult to put fares back up once you've dropped them.

snappieT

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You think it would be worth trenching the road to put in a duct to run fiber to bus stops? I'd be surprised.

That'd be crazy. We have wireless communications for a reason. No reason why it couldn't be linked into Dublin Bus' driver radio system (digitised, of course), or make use of a GSM network.

L1011

KC61 wrote: »

The provision of on-street information will follow also, however this is being implemented by Dublin City Council (apparently out of a governmental fear of potential unfair competition/funding litigation from other operators), and will probably start to happen in late 2010/early 2011.

This sounds familiar - Brighton & Hove Council provide the at-stop arrival information signs for B&H Buses, on the basis that there is a miniscule number of services from Stagecoach in the area that they also wanted covered. Makes a lot of sense, as it means theres no troubles over access to the signage should the route providers change / split.

bk

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You think it would be worth trenching the road to put in a duct to run fiber to bus stops? I'd be surprised.

No, Edge/3G mobile networks should be completely adequate to carry the small amount of data required by these sort of displays.

The buses GPS monitoring systems will be using the same Edge/3G mobile networks.

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The issue with centralisation, for me, is that you need incredibly brainy, knowledgeable, proactive people to do the central planning. I have good reason to believe that these people do not exist in this city, and I don't know where they are suddenly going to appear from.

I disagree, many such people work in the city, I meet them every day, unfortunately they tend to work in the private sector in big US IT and Pharmaceutical companies and not in the public sector and typically aren't so much part of the old boy political network and tend to come from the younger college educated generation.

The trick is figuring out how to get the old cronies out and replace them we these people with very different ideas.