Another very good reason to scrap bike paths...

barrabus

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1116/cycle.html

DirkVoodoo

And even if we all had bells installed, what about the deaf pedestrians???

(I'm super cereal by the way!)

p

Has this acually caused a problem? I honestly don't see it as that likely. People jump a mile if their see a blind person, it's hard to miss a stick. Sounds like someone looking for a problem that isn't there.

Though, I do think having some kind of curb between footpath and cycle path is a good idea in general, we need to take a few more steps to get from where we are before we end up there.

DirkVoodoo

p wrote: »

Has this acually caused a problem? I honestly don't see it as that likely. People jump a mile if their see a blind person, it's hard to miss a stick. Sounds like someone looking for a problem that isn't there.

Though, I do think having some kind of curb between footpath and cycle path is a good idea in general, we need to take a few more steps to get from where we are before we end up there.

Sometimes the lip isn't even apparent to cyclists at this time of year with inadequate street lighting, masses of unswept leaves, etc. At least on the bus lane you know what you are getting.

petethedrummer

We're going to have to paint everything in the entire world luminous yellow and give every person, vehicle and animal a helmet with a siren on top. Then we'll all be safe.

Jawgap

"A total of €700,000 has been spent on repairs to cycle lanes in the past three months and work is expected to start on the canal cycle routes in the new year."

Talk about spin!!!! I'd love to know where they spent that money - it's not readily apparent to me anyway.

blorg

Was mentioned on the off-topic thread.

blorg

petethedrummer wrote: »

We're going to have to paint everything in the entire world luminous yellow and give every person, vehicle and animal a helmet with a siren on top. Then we'll all be safe.

I think a simple and straightforward approach like having a man with a red flag walk ahead of you would be more common sense.

petethedrummer

blorg wrote: »

I think a simple and straightforward approach like having a man with a red flag walk ahead of you would be more common sense.

Who is going to walk in front of him? He could have somebody's eye out.

blorg

petethedrummer wrote: »

Who is going to walk in front of him? He could have somebody's eye out.

It's red men with flags all the way down.

petethedrummer

At the front a man with a sandwich board with "Caution: Flag Wavers & Cyclists Approaching" written on it.

monument

A press release from cyclist.ie on this...

Cyclist.ie Press Release

Cyclist.ie
Ireland's National Cycling Lobby Group

For Confirmation

Shane Foran M.Sc. (Regional Spokesperson) T: +353 091 754601 (W) T: +353 87 993 5993

Dr. Michael McKillen (Chair) T: +353 1 896 1613 (W) T: +353 1 269 4210 (H)
M: +353 87 231 4613

HEADER

Cyclists back Council for the Blind over problems of footpath cycle lanes

BODY

Cyclist.ie, Ireland’s National Cycle Advocacy Group, supports the National Council for the Blind in their call for cycle lanes to be restricted to roads. Shared use foot and cycle paths pose particular dangers for the visually impared and those using canes as the boundary between the pedestrian and cycling areas is often fluid – pedestrians walk in the cycling part and cyclists cycle in the pedestrian part - and both cyclist and pedestrians need to be to see approaching danger and move out of each other’s way quickly to avoid collisions. The Council for the Blind have called for raised delineator strips on footpaths but Cyclist.ie say this would do little to change this situation.

It is for this reason that Cyclist.ie believe that shared used cycle-foot paths are also dangerous for the general population and do not serve the needs of either cyclists or pedestrians well. The use of footpath type cycle lanes has also been associated with significant increases in collisions between cyclists and motor vehicles, particularly at junctions. All cycle lanes should be located on the roadway and government policy should aim to keep cyclists on the roadway as a matter of first principle.

However, road-based cycle lanes alone will not improve the cycling experience, designs must be adequate, cycle-lane widths of at least 1.8m are required. The following measures are also required: a reduction in traffic speeds; enforcement of speed limits, safe driving and overtaking of cyclists; advanced stop lines for cyclists at all junctions and removal of multilane splits at junctions and roundabouts. On-road training of novice cyclists in practical traffic handling skills and the Rules of the Road is also required.

ENDS

monument

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Sometimes the lip isn't even apparent to cyclists at this time of year with inadequate street lighting, masses of unswept leaves, etc. At least on the bus lane you know what you are getting.

Indeed...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/4078841115/in/pool-dublincyclelanes
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/4079601132/in/pool-dublincyclelanes
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/4079603090/in/pool-dublincyclelanes/

RacoonQueen

Jawgap wrote: »

"A total of €700,000 has been spent on repairs to cycle lanes in the past three months and work is expected to start on the canal cycle routes in the new year."

Talk about spin!!!! I'd love to know where they spent that money - it's not readily apparent to me anyway.

I was going to ask ? I haven't seen any improved cycle lanes or anyone working on repairing cycle lanes.

fletch

A total of €700,000 has been spent on repairs to cycle lanes in the past three months

eh where!

petethedrummer

fletch wrote: »

eh where!

Well they incorrectly repainted the cycle path along Fairview park. and then they put a new unusable cycle lane at the junction of Malahide Rd and Clontarf Rd. Money well spent.

GlennaMaddy

€700,000 is a paltry amount to spend on bike lanes when you consider;
a) a strip of paint qualifies as a bike lane
b) the NRA'S budget

BostonB

Daft article. Has there really been problems with blind people and cycle lanes?

Though I agree the pavement is a daft place for a cycle lane.

SerialComplaint

BostonB wrote: »

Daft article. Has there really been problems with blind people and cycle lanes?

p wrote: »

Has this acually caused a problem? I honestly don't see it as that likely. People jump a mile if their see a blind person, it's hard to miss a stick. Sounds like someone looking for a problem that isn't there.

Maybe you should contact Fiona at NCBI and ask here where she is coming from, rather than assuming that there have not been any problems. You have very little chance of spotting a white stick when you are approaching a ped from behind, or of distinguishing the white stick from an umbrella. How are you going to tell a guide dog from any other dog when approaching from the rear?

petethedrummer wrote: »

We're going to have to paint everything in the entire world luminous yellow and give every person, vehicle and animal a helmet with a siren on top. Then we'll all be safe.

A good designer will be able to create an environment that is safe for all and is also aesthetically pleasing. These are not mutually exclusive requirements. The UK Guide Dogs Assoc state "Although we fully support the proposal to improve cycling networks, we would request that due consideration is given to the safety of blind and partially sighted pedestrians, when cycle routes/lanes are being designed. It is vital that cycle lanes and pedestrian footpaths are clearly defined as separate areas and effective tactile and visual markings are used to indicate these defined areas.", so it is not necessarily a question of having a lip (which could indeed be a trip hazard to others).

corkandproud

The new Carrigaline cycle lanes are almost complete.

All they've done is added an extra 2 feet to the footpath. No markings, no lanes, no differentiation,

They have created a problem and spent more if our money in doing so.

Incidentally the footpaths were plenty wide enough for kids rec use, and you'd often see kids on them. Now it's just a very big footpath.

BostonB

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Maybe you should contact Fiona at NCBI and ask here where she is coming from, rather than assuming that there have not been any problems. You have very little chance of spotting a white stick when you are approaching a ped from behind, or of distinguishing the white stick from an umbrella. How are you going to tell a guide dog from any other dog when approaching from the rear?....

I don't see why this is an issue at all? Does it matter if the person on the path is blind or not? You not going to ride full pelt into them, just because they don't move over.

I dunno about you, but for me pedestrians on cycle paths is pretty much normal daily experience. On some days theres more pedestrians than cyclists on them. Almost all of them don't hear you regardless of bells, or yelling. If you had to ring the bell or yell you'd be doing it constantly. Most cyclists just go around them with no drama.

While commuters should be on the road. There is a case for cycle lanes not on the road for small kids and families, near schools, parks etc. They should be in addition to a cycle lane in the road. Especially where the roads are busy/fast etc.

BostonB

corkandproud wrote: »

The new Carrigaline cycle lanes are almost complete.

All they've done is added an extra 2 feet to the footpath. No markings, no lanes, no differentiation,

They have created a problem and spent more if our money in doing so.

Incidentally the footpaths were plenty wide enough for kids rec use, and you'd often see kids on them. Now it's just a very big footpath.

With less room on road for cyclist. Where do they get these people from that do these things?

tomasrojo

I'm not sure whether it's explicitly allowed in law, but I don't think anyone has ever tried to stop a small child cycling on the footpath. I don't think special off-road infrastructure is needed for them. Off-road cycle lanes are awful and they should just be got rid of. Exceptions can be made for ones with no or few junctions that can also be made wide (Clontarf beside the bay, for example).

BostonB

tomasrojo wrote: »

I'm not sure whether it's explicitly allowed in law, but I don't think anyone has ever tried to stop a small child cycling on the footpath. I don't think special off-road infrastructure is needed for them. ...

True enough...

SerialComplaint

BostonB wrote: »

I don't see why this is an issue at all? Does it matter if the person on the path is blind or not? You not going to ride full pelt into them, just because they don't move over.

Most peds dont swing a white cane to check their directions. I don't really know whether there is or isn't a real problem, but I'd guess that NCBI wouldn't be sending out press releases about theoretical problems. Give em a call if you want to know what is behind this.

BostonB

Most peds don't walk in a predictable straight line either. So unless your in the habit of cutting it very close to peds i can't see how a cane would hit you. Th article doesn't say an accident has happened either.

SerialComplaint

BostonB wrote: »

Th article doesn't say an accident has happened either.

True, but it doesn't say one hasn't happened either. I wouldn't go making assumptions either way without checking it out.

BostonB

The assumption that accidents with white canes going through spokes on cycle lanes on paths isn't a common problem?