Goal and intensity setting - how do you do yours?

--amadeus--

Been reading through a few logs and looking at some of the comments made in here recently and it looks like some of the posters are starting to get quite hard-core in their attitudes to intensity and goal setting.

In a few places I've seen comments that either imply or directly say that people need to toughen up and accept that hard runs are hard, that long runs are long and that you can't cheat this stuff. There have also been quite a few hints that a lot / some posters on here set targets that are too easy or are content with achieving less than they could or should.

So how do you set your own goals and training intensity? Do you think that most people take things too easy? Or do you think it's just macho bull and you're happy to do your own training and events and the time isn't really a factor?

Woddle

Very good question.

The following input is based on me and no one else but I certainly feel I've been taking it far too easy, I got back into running and wanted to do a marathon, which I did but I never changed my mental approach after doing it, I just expected to keep getting PBs, now I'm back running about 20 months and am no longer getting the results I want, I look around and see the work others are putting in and there getting the results and it's through sheer hard work, you can't cut corners in running, I used to think you could, but mieage and effort don't lie.
I feel I have a strong body that can take alot of hammering, so it's time to hammer it.
Also I would have considered myself a good all rounder at sports, I could take any sport and be decent at it and I guess I felt the same was true of running but it's not.
The only reason I'm doing 40 mile weeks and not more is because of the messages and advice I'm getting from a few people in here who I respect, but I can't wait to keep upping the intensity.

I should add I don't think there is alot of macho bull in our sport but there is certainly alot of dreamers.
As for goal setting, I think your better of letting your legs do the talking and keeping things to yourself and maybe coach. That brings me on to another point, I now have a coach and for the last 4 weeks I've been doing exactly what he says and I ring him at the end of each week and get his feedback, I still don't know whether I'm a dreamer or not though

scottreynolds

--amadeus-- wrote: »

So how do you set your own goals and training intensity?

I just pick goals that I can't currently do and then build up for them e.g. DCM in October, 45 miles trail run in December.

When I started I had no idea of my pace etc that I should aim for so IO just run to HR. Advanced Marathoning had HR guides so I used there plan exactly. I missed alot of threshold sessions etc but at the end of the day I was happy although my time was a fair reflection on my training.

Post DCM my goals are a bit up in the air (after the next race) and this morning I was thinking I want to see if I can increase the speed. I want to be able to run 10 miles in an hour so was thinking 5.5kms in 20 minutes might be an interesting goal for a bit -- all the while training for enduranceas well which I realise is abit of a contradication.

shels4ever

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Been reading through a few logs and looking at some of the comments made in here recently and it looks like some of the posters are starting to get quite hard-core in their attitudes to intensity and goal setting.

In a few places I've seen comments that either imply or directly say that people need to toughen up and accept that hard runs are hard, that long runs are long and that you can't cheat this stuff. There have also been quite a few hints that a lot / some posters on here set targets that are too easy or are content with achieving less than they could or should.

So how do you set your own goals and training intensity? Do you think that most people take things too easy? Or do you think it's just macho bull and you're happy to do your own training and events and the time isn't really a factor?

I pick a time that I think will be the fastes i could ever go and try to get there, ran 49 mins for 5 mile so set a target of sub 30 might take me another 12-18 months but I will get there.... need to set some shorter term targets too but take that race by race

tunney

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Been reading through a few logs and looking at some of the comments made in here recently and it looks like some of the posters are starting to get quite hard-core in their attitudes to intensity and goal setting.

In a few places I've seen comments that either imply or directly say that people need to toughen up and accept that hard runs are hard, that long runs are long and that you can't cheat this stuff. There have also been quite a few hints that a lot / some posters on here set targets that are too easy or are content with achieving less than they could or should.

So how do you set your own goals and training intensity? Do you think that most people take things too easy? Or do you think it's just macho bull and you're happy to do your own training and events and the time isn't really a factor?

For a few years I was training at the levels of volume and intensity that the rest of my club did. Never mind the fact that neither were appropriate for the sport, it certainly wasn't appropriate for my at the very beginning of my athletic life. I did what they did, I got sick, injured and hated the sport. (well not hated but didn't enjoy).

I went from this environment to training and racing at levels of volume and intensity that I was happy with. If it appears like I'm not doing enough or not going hard enough to others then I really don't give a toss.

In all honesty I don't care what levels of volume or intensity anyone outside of my training group does. In my training group I do care, but only because I know what they want to do and in all honesty I'd prefer to make them HTFU, SIU and do some BHW now than listen to the b!tching and wh!ning during the season as they complain about not achieving their targets. Likewise what anyone outside of this group things of my training, I don't really care if they think its too little or I need to work harder.


Really as you say it all comes down to goal settings.

Now I do completely belong in the dreamer category. I've set some lofty personal goals that I've shared only with my coach, my wife and my training group - the people whose support I need to achieve them. I understand the work required to achieve them and I'm doing my best to do it. Whether I have the genetic abilities, time and athletic maturity to absorb this work - I don't know. But I'm going to try.

I think people can go too easy on themselves. If you set a goal and your laziness, unwillingness to do the work that you know is required, or you just won't get out of bed in the morning because its cold. Well then HTFU, SIU and do some BHW.

If you set goals that are easily achieveable. (For example, HM saying her goal for 2010 is to finish an IM). Then seriously, what have you achieved?

However if you set goals that stretch yourself, but don't overstretch, and you do the work required to achieve them. If someone tells you to HTFU and run harder, longer, faster. Well then tell them to go..........

BeepBeep67

It's never an exact science regarding what time I can do in a race (but I was pretty accurate this Summer), I'm hampered by a previous life where the times I ran then I'm unlikely to see again.
As I feel I'm still in improve mode this time around, I'll realistically look at how much I can improve by and then work that back to the training required to get there (next year my primary goals are <18 for 5k, <30 for 5M & <37:20 for 10K).
I know from how I ran this year where my opportunities are, my comfort zone is between 3k - 5k and I tend to out perform in these distances versus shorter or longer. Looking at how I performed in those, identifying my weaknesses and reviewing those against how I trained pretty much tells me what I'm missing. I then sit down with the club coach to address that. So for me it's endurance (increase my long run & add more mileage to maintainence runs) and speed-endurance (tempo runs and longer intervals).
The why is a personal thing - for me it's all about races, improving my time or claiming a scalp - I tried last summer to plug some 'training races' to the schedule, but all I achieved was no taper and I still ran flat out.

Sosa

Everyone tells me that im to hard on myself...i dont think so.
Going for sub 3 wasnt just a pipe dream for me,it was very realistic,i just did 3 thinkgs wrong.
My short times just got better and better through heaps of fast tempos and intervals and generally getting stronger.

Next year i am aiming for a minute off my 5m and 10k,3 mins off my 10m time and hope to get the half @ sub 82...they are lofty targets for me but achievable if i keep up what i am doing.

I know loads of people who just want to finish a race,thats just not me,i will try to do it as fast as possible.
I wont go gung ho for something,but i will plan ahead and prepare for it.
eg Dungarvan 10 at the end of Jan,Kilmac 5 end of Feb are my target races early next year.

I love a bit of hard work.

MCOS

--amadeus-- wrote: »

So how do you set your own goals and training intensity?

Like Woddle I was a sporty all rounder years ago. Put thataside for a few years to focus on career and parenting. The usual...
2007 (1 race)... I decided to run the DCM, plucked 3:30 as a target out of the air and the ran 3 times a week. Virtually every run was at 8min mile pace including lsrs! I missed the target doing 3:33. As happy I was anyway I knew exactly why I missed it but it took a wakeup call.

2008(2 races)... first up Conn Marathon. The harshest lesson I've ever learned to date about not doing the work, not listening to my body and just stubbornness. It took me a month to recover and I really thought about chucking running in the bin. 2nd race was DCM and I was dubious after Conn. Basically set the same goal 3:30 (I don't believe in going for something else until you achieve what you set out to achieve first). Put the work in this time and did 3:27. It was a baptism. I had the sense after 3 attempts of achieving what I set out to achieve and had also felt well within myself doing it. The sporty kid surfaced!

2009(15+ races)... I achieved every mark I set down for myself this year and more. Even the secret one written in the back of the notebook

The difference is I've just started believing in myself again. Finding and improving the formula is essential. Setting your goals is about being completely honest with yourself first.

I visualise it.
For example there was an award I wanted and I would just imagine my name on it this year. I got to know the previous winner and how he worked. Same for races. For my first Tri I spent a while staring at the finish chute and picturing myself running through it. Its important to dream the dream!

Next I write it down.
The dream that is. I read it aloud and if it sends a shiver up my spine I know its worth going for. My latest dream is one I haven't even dared write down yet as I haven't got it pictured fully yet. There is no harm in having lofty goals as long as they are realistic and you have a plan to get there.

Next up is the plan.
Remembering of course that a plan is just a plan! One of the problems I have is to overcome the re-emergence of the sporty kid. I love sport again and have lots of energy for it. Doing the work is not a fear of mine but its training smart that I have lacked. Doing sessions on rest days, doubling up when I shouldn't have. There was a hill I was avoiding for a while until I decided to give out to myself one day. Got up the following morning at 5am and cycled up it 5 times. Hardy stuff but left me wrecked for the next 2 days! I've learned that I have to reign the energy back in. Simple things like going off too hard in a 10k. This is where a proper plan that encompasses your lifestyle, recovery, progression, peaking etc... helps. A coach is the tool to create the plan and support you in using it. The last 6 weeks I've had a plan and a coach and training is good and on the rails. Its important to fit the plan to you rather than you to the plan. I see a lot of people following internet training plans all too rigidly.

Work
As the lads were saying. If you dream the dream, don't exepct it to come to you. You have to go after it. You have to work for it. If it means getting up at 6am for a hill repeat in the rain to achieve it, then do it! Woddle made 2 good points about cutting corners and the body can take a hammering. This is so true, you will get out of this what you put in and although you may feel like you are going to die on the 12th track rep... you don't! The body is an incredible engine - if you respect it, feul it and allow it to rest you can push it as hard as you like and it will grow to your needs. Just be honest with yourself and work for it. Its worth it!

Obstacles
Whats stopping you? I achieved everything I wanted this year and I'm no different to the next guy. 9-6 job, college, parenting... the usual responsibilities. I can't get out for weekend cycles too often as I have my son at weekends so winter training last year was lots of 5am mornings in the rain with lights on the bike. I've also had some beautiful runs under the stars while the world was asleep! How many Ultra running and IM types are out midnight jogging or up at 4am for a cycle and back to have breakfast with the kids before they head off to school? I make sure that LIFE is taken into account when I dream the dream and create the plan.

Support
Tunney makes a great point about this. Having the support of an understaning OH, a coach, training buddies, friends (if they are different to training buddies!) is gold dust on your journey to fulfilling your dream. Make time for those who support you. If its the wife;s birthday and you are scheduled for a 10 miler. HTFU and get it done before she wakes up so you can take her out in the evening. The support you get in return is tenfold. The poeple that understand you and your obsession are irreplaceable and must be included in the plan and the dream.

Enjoy it.
In 2008 running started to feel like a chore to me, especially after the horrible experience I had in Connemara. I specifically set a goal for the DCM to achieve a certain time but to enjoy it and remember it. That I did and it was taking that in that infused me with the ebergy to try new things. If you are not enjoying it, switch focus to make it fun again.

Reward yourself.
It feel fantastic to achieve your goal. Do something, go somewhere, buy something to celebrate and embed the feeling. I had a very specific thing to achieve this year and a very specific reward in mind if I did.

Its worth noting something about having a formula that works for you. You cannot underestimate the power of dreaming the dream and living it. If you are honest and open and enjoying the journey while you are working hard, it will spill over into other areas of your life

BeepBeep67

MCOS wrote: »

Reward yourself.
It feel fantastic to achieve your goal. Do something, go somewhere, buy something to celebrate and embed the feeling. I had a very specific thing to achieve this year and a very specific reward in mind if I did.

I like this, I tend to be over critical and from the job I'm in, it's celebrate for nano-second and then move on. This I think can help me kill 2 birds with the 1 stone, both reward myself and thanking Mrs BeepBeep for her commitment and support.

size5

My goal setting is a lot different mainly because I have only started coming out into the running world:)

Finished playing team sport last year so in order to keep me motivated targeted Triathlons, of which I completed two.

This year goal is Connemara marathon. Don't know enough bout running to set a time goal-so runnersworld have set me up with a plan thats not quite right but will start me off.

Separate note great advise on threads for us novice runners

GOAL 2010-Conn marathon completed under 4.45hrs

aero2k

When I got into running on a regular basis and decided to attempt the marathon, the first goal was to beat the time I'd set in '83, and after that I decided I was going to attempt a sub 3, for no other reason except that appears to be a reasonable club runner standard. (I missed both goals) For the shorter distances I set goals using McMillan based on a 3hr marathon schedule - I also missed those, but I set PBs as I was new to the distances. For '09 I used the same approach but this time I had a secondary goal of beating last year's times. I was faster over every distance but missed every "McMillan" goal until I finally managed to narrowly beat one in the half.

I also used McMillan to set tempo pace goals based on race target times.

I haven't really thought about next year yet.

tunney

An apt quote from an article I read this morning:

“Athletes have to ask themselves a serious question whether or not they want to go for a Kona qualifying spot. There is no “sort of want to do it.” There is only 100% in and by committing to such a goal is a life altering event. For an age grouper, this means taking an evaluation of what is important in life. It is very difficult to manage training, work, friends and family and something has to give. To dedicate oneself to a goal of racing in Kona, training has to be a priority. Fundamentals, base, intensity, volume, nutrition all have to be put in place to have a successful race at any level. As a coach, it is my job to give an athlete the tools to succeed, it is up to the athlete to dedicate themselves to the goal.”

http://www.xtri.com/features_display.aspx?riIDReport=6081&CAT=25&xref=xx

Oryx

Im too new to the technique of running to set particular time goals. I do it to the best of my ability, thats all, to get to the finish, and learn as I go what feels right and what does not.

I do all this to achieve life goals for now. Last year, T.G. and DCM. This year is the year I try tri , another marathon and as of today, WAR10.

I do this to see how high I can lift this body out of middle aged woman territory and into middle aged female athlete territory. I have no set targets, but that means I also have no set limits. I leap frog from one big event to the next, each one hopefully setting the challenge a little higher for me.

dna_leri

MCOS wrote: »

I visualise it.
Next I write it down.
Next up is the plan.
Work
Obstacles
Support
Enjoy it.
Reward yourself.

Its worth noting something about having a formula that works for you. You cannot underestimate the power of dreaming the dream and living it. If you are honest and open and enjoying the journey while you are working hard, it will spill over into other areas of your life

I thought I had something to say on this subject but after MCOS' post there is nothing to add.

I think I can see the beginnings of a motivational book in there: The 8-step plan to success in sport and life.

ronanmac

MCOS wrote: »

Like Woddle I was a sporty all rounder years ago. Put thataside for a few years to focus on career and parenting. The usual...
2007 (1 race)... I decided to run the DCM, plucked 3:30 as a target out of the air and the ran 3 times a week. Virtually every run was at 8min mile pace including lsrs! I missed the target doing 3:33. As happy I was anyway I knew exactly why I missed it but it took a wakeup call.

2008(2 races)... first up Conn Marathon. The harshest lesson I've ever learned to date about not doing the work, not listening to my body and just stubbornness. It took me a month to recover and I really thought about chucking running in the bin. 2nd race was DCM and I was dubious after Conn. Basically set the same goal 3:30 (I don't believe in going for something else until you achieve what you set out to achieve first). Put the work in this time and did 3:27. It was a baptism. I had the sense after 3 attempts of achieving what I set out to achieve and had also felt well within myself doing it. The sporty kid surfaced!

2009(15+ races)... I achieved every mark I set down for myself this year and more. Even the secret one written in the back of the notebook

The difference is I've just started believing in myself again. Finding and improving the formula is essential. Setting your goals is about being completely honest with yourself first.

I visualise it.
For example there was an award I wanted and I would just imagine my name on it this year. I got to know the previous winner and how he worked. Same for races. For my first Tri I spent a while staring at the finish chute and picturing myself running through it. Its important to dream the dream!

Next I write it down.
The dream that is. I read it aloud and if it sends a shiver up my spine I know its worth going for. My latest dream is one I haven't even dared write down yet as I haven't got it pictured fully yet. There is no harm in having lofty goals as long as they are realistic and you have a plan to get there.

Next up is the plan.
Remembering of course that a plan is just a plan! One of the problems I have is to overcome the re-emergence of the sporty kid. I love sport again and have lots of energy for it. Doing the work is not a fear of mine but its training smart that I have lacked. Doing sessions on rest days, doubling up when I shouldn't have. There was a hill I was avoiding for a while until I decided to give out to myself one day. Got up the following morning at 5am and cycled up it 5 times. Hardy stuff but left me wrecked for the next 2 days! I've learned that I have to reign the energy back in. Simple things like going off too hard in a 10k. This is where a proper plan that encompasses your lifestyle, recovery, progression, peaking etc... helps. A coach is the tool to create the plan and support you in using it. The last 6 weeks I've had a plan and a coach and training is good and on the rails. Its important to fit the plan to you rather than you to the plan. I see a lot of people following internet training plans all too rigidly.

Work
As the lads were saying. If you dream the dream, don't exepct it to come to you. You have to go after it. You have to work for it. If it means getting up at 6am for a hill repeat in the rain to achieve it, then do it! Woddle made 2 good points about cutting corners and the body can take a hammering. This is so true, you will get out of this what you put in and although you may feel like you are going to die on the 12th track rep... you don't! The body is an incredible engine - if you respect it, feul it and allow it to rest you can push it as hard as you like and it will grow to your needs. Just be honest with yourself and work for it. Its worth it!

Obstacles
Whats stopping you? I achieved everything I wanted this year and I'm no different to the next guy. 9-6 job, college, parenting... the usual responsibilities. I can't get out for weekend cycles too often as I have my son at weekends so winter training last year was lots of 5am mornings in the rain with lights on the bike. I've also had some beautiful runs under the stars while the world was asleep! How many Ultra running and IM types are out midnight jogging or up at 4am for a cycle and back to have breakfast with the kids before they head off to school? I make sure that LIFE is taken into account when I dream the dream and create the plan.

Support
Tunney makes a great point about this. Having the support of an understaning OH, a coach, training buddies, friends (if they are different to training buddies!) is gold dust on your journey to fulfilling your dream. Make time for those who support you. If its the wife;s birthday and you are scheduled for a 10 miler. HTFU and get it done before she wakes up so you can take her out in the evening. The support you get in return is tenfold. The poeple that understand you and your obsession are irreplaceable and must be included in the plan and the dream.

Enjoy it.
In 2008 running started to feel like a chore to me, especially after the horrible experience I had in Connemara. I specifically set a goal for the DCM to achieve a certain time but to enjoy it and remember it. That I did and it was taking that in that infused me with the ebergy to try new things. If you are not enjoying it, switch focus to make it fun again.

Reward yourself.
It feel fantastic to achieve your goal. Do something, go somewhere, buy something to celebrate and embed the feeling. I had a very specific thing to achieve this year and a very specific reward in mind if I did.

Its worth noting something about having a formula that works for you. You cannot underestimate the power of dreaming the dream and living it. If you are honest and open and enjoying the journey while you are working hard, it will spill over into other areas of your life

With my motivation waning over the past week or two (despite a half marathon and my first duathlon coming up before the year end), I remembered reading this post by MCOS and thinking at the time that it fitted in a lot with my own life, in terms of family support, young family, work etc., and that I had to work around all of the excuses I gave myself to cop out of a pre-work/post-work run.

So I went looking for the post and realising that it was as good a template for training-life balance that anyone could come up with, I pasted into a word document, added a few tweaks to suit myself, and printed it out.

So cheers, MCOS, you are the author of the Official ronanmac 2010 Training Motivation Template!

MCOS

ronanmac wrote: »

So I went looking for the post and realising that it was as good a template for training-life balance that anyone could come up with, I pasted into a word document, added a few tweaks to suit myself, and printed it out.

Now thats a resourceful way of using boards, sweeet! Thanks for the acknowledgement ronanmac, wish you all the best for success in 2010

RacoonQueen

S = Specific
M = Measurable
A = Attainable
R = Realistic
T = Timely

Goals must always, always be realistic if not and I finish miles off pace I run the risk of taking a massive blow to my confidence.

RedB

"…the race is long, and in the end, it’s only with yourself." Baz Luhrmann (sunscreen song).

"There is more to life than simply increasing its speed." Mahatma Gandhi.

Setting goals and intensity is obviously a personal thing and I've come to realise that its only yourself that counts in this regard. Nobody else can define your goals or the intensity you're willing to input. Generally, if you really want to do something, you'll find a way, if you don't, you'll find an excuse. Having said that I work on an iterative approach by setting a goal and a timeline based on the intensity I believe I can apply. I then refine it based on how its working with the intention of stretching myself to be better. I'd much rather be a better person than a faster runner so I'll compromise based on that principle but still aim to be improving overall.
When all else fails though a stopwatch is your only man so set the goals as faster/further and go for it! .

size5

ronanmac wrote: »

With my motivation waning over the past week or two (despite a half marathon and my first duathlon coming up before the year end), I remembered reading this post by MCOS and thinking at the time that it fitted in a lot with my own life, in terms of family support, young family, work etc., and that I had to work around all of the excuses I gave myself to cop out of a pre-work/post-work run.

So I went looking for the post and realising that it was as good a template for training-life balance that anyone could come up with, I pasted into a word document, added a few tweaks to suit myself, and printed it out.

So cheers, MCOS, you are the author of the Official ronanmac 2010 Training Motivation Template!

Have to say Iagree with Ronan with regard to MCOS post it is utterly brilliant. Done a 10k tonight longest I have ever run and I think it may have a bridge too far. Feel it was not becaus eof lack of training or going to fast but nutrition, missed lunch and it ruined my day.

MC's post has given me the kick in the ass to ensure that doesn't happen again

aero2k

RedB wrote: »

Generally, if you really want to do something, you'll find a way, if you don't, you'll find an excuse.

That's really excellent.