Cinema and the recession

meglome

I was at one of the opening shows of Star Trek in the Savoy a little while back and I'm not exaggerating when I say the 800 seater Savoy 1 was half empty. For the opening of a new blockbuster on a Sunday (i think), I was surprised. I was talking to some of the staff and they were surprised as in the previous recession in the 1980's they did quite well. But it starting me thinking about it, I live in Dublin City Centre so why wasn't I in the cinema more often.

Was talking to a friend of mine earlier today about the cinema. We both love going to the cinema, like a lot of other Irish people, but we both haven't gone that much recently. I'd see the Virgin/UGC/Cineworld cinema and the queues would be out the door but I haven't see that in a few years.

I have to put this mainly down to cost. It's twenty quid (plus in some places) for two tickets and with snacks you're looking at 30 quid and that's without the travel cost to and from the cinema. The Cineworld unlimited card is 20quid when it started off it was 10 (as far as I remember anyway). With pirate DVD's available for 5 Euro or less (I know the quality is often ****e) and the movies out on official DVD so quickly after the cinema release, plus downloads. A lot of people have big wide screen tv's to watch the movies on at home so it ends up being not worth the trip.

I suppose what I'm saying is the pricing structure in our cinemas right now is nuts and will only lead to further deceases in the numbers of those attending the movies. This is a recession, people want distractions but they need to be distractions they can afford. I won't hold my breath on it though.

What do you think the cinemas should do? Or maybe I'm blowing the problem out of proportion.

Jesus Wept

In the 80's people couldn't download movies and watch them at home for free too.

faceman

Yeah traditionally cinemas have done well in recessionary times. However during the boom cinemas have jacked up the prices quite dramatically. We are now paying double what we paid less than 10 years ago in some cinemas

Unlike other industries, cinemas have done nothing to try tackle the recession. No specials offers or deals. The DVD rental market has however appeared to have adopted quicker.

mikemac

Well back around 1999 it cost £3 to go to our local cinema. And there was outrage when they jacked the price up to £4 for Titanic.
Well outrage is a bit strong but it had never been as expensive as that.

Even then, that's around €5. And now a peak time ticket can be over €10
Has inflation doubled in ten years?

ixoy

faceman wrote: »

Unlike other industries, cinemas have done nothing to try tackle the recession.

Actually Cinéworld tackled this problem a few months ago by increasing their prices and I can't say that I've noticed any differene in audience sizes between this year and last.

monkeypants

The cinema is very expensive. I don't mind paying the €20 for two tickets, it's expensive but it's a good experience. It's the gouging for drinks and snacks that I can't stand.

That reminds me, I haven't been in a while. There has been a shortage of movies that I wanted to see recently.

somuj

Cost me and my beautiful other half €34 to go and see 2012 last friday in Longford cinema. A rather extreme price for popcorn and two seats:mad:

monkeypants

somuj wrote: »

Longford

Sorry, but I'd be welcoming the apolcalypse.

somuj

monkeypants wrote: »

Sorry, but I'd be welcoming the apolcalypse.

I was praying during the movie that it was gonna come up on the screen at the end.

"This is based on future events":D

symbolwoman

The Cinema in Arklow hold a Terrific Tuesday type thing every week. Tickets are 5 euro and the place is packed and even on a Tuesday night!

If they want to fill the seats they must lower the prices.

HomeAccount

There's a few variables that must be taken into account; September/October were dire months for movies being released over here. There was a relatively high drop between August this year and August last year.

Also, as stated by others, the internet was not available in the 80's as it is now, nor were pirated movies as easily accessible.

But the cinema business is starting to make a comeback - Twilight: New Moon has already broken records with advanced ticket sales. I have seen cinemas sell out for screenings a month beforehand!

krudler

Shoddy projection is another reason i dont go much anymore, out of the 2 cinemas in Limerick,both have pretty crap projection, its always either slightly out of focus, or the speakers arent working, theres one screen in Storm that whenever anything bassy is playing the speaker on the left wall sounds like its about to explode, and its been like this for about a year. I went to see Up a few weeks after it was released and the print was awful, shaking about and kept going out of focus, one of my mates downloaded the bluray rip of it and it was a million times better quality than the one i saw in the cinema, cinemas need to get their act together, i dont pay for food there anymore as its extortion, 4.50 for a bag of sweets you can get for 2.00 in the shop next door? **** that

L31mr0d

You also have to take into account that getting the same experience at home is a lot easier and cheaper now.

A 1080p film with DD5.1 surround is a better experience in my home setup than watching a film in a cinema. 2012 put the final nail in the coffin for non-3D cinema going for me. Not only was the film a complete waste of my money, but for the first 15 minutes of it the projectionist left it in an odd letterbox ratio, before finally realizing that being able to only see the nose and mouths of the characters faces wasn't how the film was intended to be watched. :mad:

Expensive seats, expensive food, poor management, bad movies. All of the above are reasons I won't be going to the cinema for normal movies any more. 3D films are only hanging in there because my home setup isn't capable of it yet.

krudler

L31mr0d wrote: »

You also have to take into account that getting the same experience at home is a lot easier and cheaper now.

A 1080p film with DD5.1 surround is a better experience in my home setup than watching a film in a cinema. 2012 put the final nail in the coffin for non-3D cinema going for me. Not only was the film a complete waste of my money, but for the first 15 minutes of it the projectionist left it in an odd letterbox ratio, before finally realizing that being able to only see the nose and mouths of the characters faces wasn't how the film was intended to be watched. :mad:

Expensive seats, expensive food, poor management, bad movies. All of the above are reasons I won't be going to the cinema for normal movies any more. 3D films are only hanging in there because my home setup isn't capable of it yet.

Thats my biggest bugbear with cinemas, WHY cant they get the aspct ratio right at the beginning of movies? the amount of times I've gone to see something where the Universal logo was an egg shape instead of a globe, or the sides of the picture were being projected onto the walls beside the screen, when i saw Sunshine the top half of the picture was on the bottom of the screen and vice versa with a huge black bar in the middle,meaning we missed that brilliant opening shot of the ship, and yet people sat there not doing anything until me and another guy went out to complain, did people assume you werent supposed to be able to actually see the movie?!

Fysh

One of the things that has me wondering is how aware cinemas are of the negative impact caused by things like wrong aspect ratios and dodgy sound, specifically in terms of deterring future visits.

I went to the Mahon Point cinema in Cork with friends to see Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. One of the prints they had (the one showing in our screen) had sound issues at the last 15 minutes, enough to significantly interfere with your enjoyment of the film during its climactic scenes - they were aware of this enough to have a small sign printed from a desktop printer up on the wall at the back (where you wouldn't notice it on the way in) but didn't mention it when we collected our tickets and said there was nothing they could do when we complained.

By contrast, I went to see Day Watch when it got its cinematic release in the UK at a Vue cinema in London. They had sound issues with the print they got that affected the last 2 minutes or so - basically the epilogue part, and it hardly affected it as it was a subtitled film anyway. We were all given free tickets to another screening of any film we wanted as soon as the film finished, without even going to complain about it.

It's anecdotal, but I do think it highlights the difference in attitude to the customer. There again, when Cork's Kino is facing closure due to lack of funds you have to wonder about who cinemas are targeting as their primary audience, and whether they realise the significance of competition from home entertainment systems and wider access to film libraries.

(On a related note, PC World have adverts running in UK cinemas as well as on television about the home cinema equipment they sell, which suggests that either the cinemas are desperate for advertising revenue or are confident that their audiences appreciate the cinema experience as something separate from home entertainment. As something of a film fan I do, but I'm not sure that the "film as entertainment" audiences would necessarily agree...)

Matt Santos

The cinema experience in Ireland is controlled by a select few people. The Celtic Tiger has come and gone and cinema sites are being built with the Multi screen model as the route to fruit. This is a huge move for the public in that we have parking and a film starting in one of the 10/12 screens nearly every half hour.
The quality of films is of course determined by the film makers but another decision that is not noticed is the choice that the cinema owners take in what they are going to view. The Ward/Anderson group have a famous issue with one of the film distributors in Ireland and as a result they do not show any of their movies! Nice thinking of the customer there eh!!
With regard to the multi cinema owners the pricing of the merchandise is extortionist considering the amount of sites that they control. I suppose it does not help that one of them is family run and the guy running the show from the head office is only there because of his name instead of his talent!
You know who you are!
In this time of recession and everybody knuckling down and trying to consiladate their position the "big boys" are holding at the pre recession prices in a vain attempt to minimize their downturn. Would have been a braver and more dynamic move to reduce their prices and negotiate with the distributors that the nation is in recession and they HAD to reduce. They may have increased the numbers and as a result increase their core income from their consumables! But a narrow business frame prevails.......

Mitch Connor

What suggestions would people make to cinema owners?

What do you think they should be doing? What would make you more likely to go to the cinema than rent a DVD or download the latest movie?

Does anyone have any actually viable suggestions to make?

For big movies, it wouldn't be possible to do 2 for 1 ticket deals for example, as it would cost the cinema up to 80% of the ticket price (they would have to pay the distributer the tickets real value percentage regardless of whether they comp'd the seat or not).

Honestly, I am interest to hear what people feel would make the cinema experience more positive.

monkeypants

Fysh wrote: »

I went to the Mahon Point cinema in Cork with friends to see Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.

I think this is where the problem started.

Seriously though, I get your point. We understand that things screw up and go wrong from time to time, it's how it's handled that makes the difference. The bunch that take your money for a product that they know to be defective do not deserve your customer. It would not have significantly hurt their business to knock just a couple of euro off the tickets for the screen where they knew the problem was. You can bet your ass that they had already complained to whoever they got the movie from and asked them for at least a rebate.

keefg

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What suggestions would people make to cinema owners?

I have a few, none of them are revolutionary, just common sense.

* Offer special rates every Mon, Tues & Wed.

* More screenings for over 18's only, regardless of the age rating on the film. (the last 2 times I've been to the cinema I had to listen to a feckin baby crying :mad:)

* On quiet nights or when there aren't any new blockbusters out, have a few "classic" film nights. There are countless films out there that most people haven't seen on a big screen but would like to.

* Stop ripping everyone off with your food & drink and it will be more viable to buy the products rather than trying to smuggle your own in.

* After the "blockbusters" have been out for a while and the number of bookings for that film decrease....drop the price for the last couple of weeks run of the film (for weekend showings). It might just give it a boost and put more bums on seats.

* Instead of letting your staff scratch their ar$e in the foyer during the film (or searching peoples bags for smuggled sweets :rolleyes:) get them inside monitoring for scumbags, chatterboxes, people with mobiles and all the other people we constantly moan about ruining the cinema experience and kick the feckers out!

Mitch Connor

keefg wrote: »

I have a few, none of them are revolutionary, just common sense.

* Offer special rates every Mon, Tues & Wed.

* More screenings for over 18's only, regardless of the age rating on the film. (the last 2 times I've been to the cinema I had to listen to a feckin baby crying :mad:)

* On quiet nights or when there aren't any new blockbusters out, have a few "classic" film nights. There are countless films out there that most people haven't seen on a big screen but would like to.

* Stop ripping everyone off with your food & drink and it will be more viable to buy the products rather than trying to smuggle your own in.

* After the "blockbusters" have been out for a while and the number of bookings for that film decrease....drop the price for the last couple of weeks run of the film (for weekend showings). It might just give it a boost and put more bums on seats.

* Instead of letting your staff scratch their ar$e in the foyer during the film (or searching peoples bags for smuggled sweets :rolleyes:) get them inside monitoring for scumbags, chatterboxes, people with mobiles and all the other people we constantly moan about ruining the cinema experience and kick the feckers out!

I know some people are currently looking into a early week ticket deal - similar to Orange Wednesday (or whatever it is in england)

I am also aware of something similar to the 2nd point currently in the works. I reckon a membership scheme (with a small entry fee) where only members can go to a certain screening would be a good idea. It means if someone misbehaves they can have their membership revoked, thus you can control the behavior of the group easier. I think it would create a good atmosphere too - as you would end up regularly seeing movies with the same 'strangers' and getting to know them. People who actually like to enjoy a movie in the cinema as it should be enjoyed.

I've been arguing the thrid point myself, but the poor turnout for the Universal Classics (Scarface, American Warewolf etc) is probably an indication to cinemas that it isn't really viable.

Food and drink is very expensive I agree, but they are the main source of income for the cinemas so I doubt we'll see anything like that soon, though the 1c Pepsi deal recently was good. I wen to the cinema the other day. Planned on getting a small popcorn (was feeling fat but needs me popcorn in the cinema!!) and it was only a euro difference between it and the large. You could argue the large is then good value, but in reality it is the small medium and large are all over priced.

I agree with this point - a reduction in ticket prices might help. Some movies still get people coming in (amazingly). Marley and Me is still playing in one cinema, and still doing enough to justify its spot!

I agree with this completely - the monitoring of cinemas should be increased. My GF used to work in a cinema, and she was great for it. One time a group of Spannish Students came into an allocated screen (with their tour leader person) and they sat in the wrong seats (allocated screen). She asked them to move and they refused. She told them to move and they refused. She stood in front of the leader guy and told him if he didn't move, she wasn't going to either, and that the film would not start until he, and the students sat in the correct seats. They moved.

monkeypants

keefg wrote: »

searching peoples bags for smuggled sweets

Does that happen? :eek:

Whenever we go to the cinema, we bring our own sweets and a bottle of 7up or something similar. They're not hidden either. No one has ever said a word and if they did, we'd just hand the tickets back and go do something else. No way would I let anyone search me.

keefg

monkeypants wrote: »

Does that happen? :eek:

In some cinemas it does. There have been a few posts here where people have complained about it.

keefg

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I reckon a membership scheme (with a small entry fee) where only members can go to a certain screening would be a good idea. It means if someone misbehaves they can have their membership revoked, thus you can control the behavior of the group easier. I think it would create a good atmosphere too - as you would end up regularly seeing movies with the same 'strangers' and getting to know them. People who actually like to enjoy a movie in the cinema as it should be enjoyed.

I think the membership/club screenings would be a great idea. I would much rather go to a screening where I know the other patrons will be civilised film lovers and not just a gang of scumbags who go there because it's raining outside or they have nothing better to do.

MisterAnarchy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What suggestions would people make to cinema owners?

Give us Digital cinemas as promised years ago.
I thought Irelands cinema were supposed to be all digital projection by now ???
I dont go to the cinema much these days due to the shocking picture quality and tinny sound in my local cinemas.
I will watch it at home on dvd on my big screen and surround sound system.
Its farcical that old fashioned reels are still being used in the 20th century.

monkeypants

keefg wrote: »

In some cinemas it does. There have been a few posts here where people have complained about it.

Today's my first day in this particular forum as Board is so damned big! I'll take a look now, but there's no way I'd let anyone search me who isn't a member of the Gardai.

keefg

monkeypants wrote: »

but there's no way I'd let anyone search me who isn't a member of the Gardai.

The bag search came about because of pirating when they were looking for video cameras but if it's in their T&C's of ticket sales that you cannot bring your own food & drink into the cinema then you can't do much about it.

You might not agree to the search but then they can just refuse you entry without refund.

Mitch Connor

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Give us Digital cinemas as promised years ago.
I thought Irelands cinema were supposed to be all digital projection by now ???
I dont go to the cinema much these days due to the shocking picture quality and tinny sound in my local cinemas.
I will watch it at home on dvd on my big screen and surround sound system.
Its farcical that old fashioned reels are still being used in the 20th century.

The projectors cost a lot of money. It is also sometimes done as a security measure.

The Dark Knight, i think (was certainly a big release but not sure exactly what it was) was originally only released on the Reels as it was felt this was actually more secure than a digital version. I remember being perplexed when I was originally told this as it made absolutely no sense to me.

Digitial cinema is becoming more prevalent, but it will take time. I know there are a few cinemas that have only digital projectors, and new builds are being geared more towards that.

I would however, point out, that Digitial prints are not always perfect. I went to see Public Enemies and the movie started freezing about half way through (kind of like you'd get with a dirty dvd) It was fine after about 5 minutes, and then for the rest of the movie, but I'm just saying either the print or delivery of the print was not perfect.

I also think digital projectors and films can sometimes be a bit too clean and crisp, but that is a personal gripe with the medium.

keefg

Just out of interest Mitch...are you a cinema owner?

MisterAnarchy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The projectors cost a lot of money. It is also sometimes done as a security measure.

Whatever happened to this plan
http://www.pcworld.com/article/120130/ireland_putting_digital_films_in_every_cinema.html

Mitch Connor

keefg wrote: »

Just out of interest Mitch...are you a cinema owner?

No, (i wish i was - one love to go to their conferences in America and Holland) but I know some.

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Whatever happened to this plan
http://www.pcworld.com/article/120130/ireland_putting_digital_films_in_every_cinema.html

That was the plan alright. I know some cinemas were originally designed as Digital only cinemas too - but things didn't go as originally planned, or hoped. A lot of cinema owners, for one, didn't buy into the digital vision from the begining, so there was resistance from the off.

Then, you have the cost. I think the original plan included the distributers helping with the cost of the set up and change over, and I don't think that happened either (digital film would be a lot cheaper and quicker to distribute so it would help them long term).

The plan is still, as far as I know, for cinemas to be completely digital in time, but as with all aspects of progress in Ireland, it takes longer than people want. The current economic climate doesn't help either. A lot of cinemas are struggling to stay a float as it is, the costs of the cinema upgrade in relation to the amount of new customers it would bring in (a very small number I would wager) would be prohibitive at the moment. People who truly love film may embrace the digital format and prefer to see a digital copy, but the majority of the public won't notice or care most of the time.

meglome

Well unsurprising others feel the exact same way as I do.

The Cinema owners need to respond and get people back in the cinemas. The celtic tiger era way of just continually jacking up prices stopped working for cinemas some years back.

mikemac

monkeypants wrote: »

Does that happen? :eek:

Whenever we go to the cinema, we bring our own sweets and a bottle of 7up or something similar. They're not hidden either. No one has ever said a word and if they did, we'd just hand the tickets back and go do something else. No way would I let anyone search me.

In our local small town cinema they won't let you take in a bag.
As you can imagine when you get off the bus after getting back from college on Friday evening you've little choice

And don't forget the sign, "Management are not responsible for personal property" in their cloakroom. Which isn't even locked! It's just a room and they throw your bag in there, no ticket, no receipt!
And then they wonder why people are reluctant to leave laptops in their cloakroom :eek:

Only cinema in town, shower of gangsters!
But they are strict, I don't know anyone who ever got a bag into the film with them

Skinfull

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I know some people are currently looking into a early week ticket deal - similar to Orange Wednesday (or whatever it is in england)

I've been arguing the thrid point myself, but the poor turnout for the Universal Classics (Scarface, American Warewolf etc) is probably an indication to cinemas that it isn't really viable. More advertising please. I live in the city centre and go to the cinema alot more often than I should and now being unemployed EVEN more, but I usually only hear about these classic screenings After The Fact and its piss annoying. The Unlimited Mag in cineworld had UK info that contradicts the info online. And the phone line is a pile of crap.

I agree with this point - a reduction in ticket prices might help. Some movies still get people coming in (amazingly). Marley and Me is still playing in one cinema, and still doing enough to justify its spot! At least now they arent charging for the 3D glasses in Cineworld anymore if you have your own pair. I'm sure I'm not the only person with over 8 pairs in their house!

I just got back from North America and they had loads of offers like mid day or weekend double bills, two movies one ticket, 3 for tuesday (movie, popcorn & drink for a tenner) classic screenings, club nights and it was epic.

Personally I dont mind paying a tenner for my ticket and hell I even dont get irked by forking over 8 quid for a bottle of water and a med/lge popcorn but what annoys me is the lack of classics. Went to see the thing twice in the cinema last month because it was just perfect fun. I generally go to the Screen on tuesdays when they have the 6.30 screening

cashback

In Australia, every Tuesday tickets are half price. 'Tight-a*se Tuesday' they call it. Wish a miserly Monday or even a thrifty Thursday was brought in here..

jozi

I didn't read the whole thread but lately my experience of going o the cinema hasn't been as described above.

I have my unlimited card for cineworld going on 3yrs now and I find that the last while the place can be packed when you don't expect it to be.

Might have to with quite few big movies being released recently thats gets the people in. I was there this evening and yesterday and the que was as long as they have it marked out for on both evenings.

I knind of think people are going to the cinema more because its cheaper than a night out. It need not cost 30+ for 2 people to see a movie, which is still cheaper than going out.

monkeypants

jozi wrote: »

I knind of think people are going to the cinema more because its cheaper than a night out. It need not cost 30+ for 2 people to see a movie, which is still cheaper than going out.

+1

It may not seem cheap, but it's definitely a lot less than a bellyful of gargle.

Nolanger

meglome wrote: »

What do you think the cinemas should do? Or maybe I'm blowing the problem out of proportion.

When I was a wee lad back in the great '80s the Dublin cinemas didn't show the same fu*kin' movies as each other. Now everything's the same - clones and drones - nothing different. That's the problem.

the_barfly1

keefg wrote: »

The bag search came about because of pirating when they were looking for video cameras but if it's in their T&C's of ticket sales that you cannot bring your own food & drink into the cinema then you can't do much about it.

You might not agree to the search but then they can just refuse you entry without refund.

AFAIK nobody has the right to perform a search on you or your belongings unless they are PSA (private security authority) licenced and employed as a security officer or a member of the gardai... If regular staff at the cinema are performing searches on customers thats illegal i think...

And yeah anyway, cinema prices are ridiculous in my neck of the woods €12 a seat no matter what day of the week it is. Feckin cinema is only open since 2001 and ticket prices were €5.50 then...

senordingdong

Probably hte film companies upping the prices to make up for the money lost through pirates.

Our man in Havana

I went to see New Moon in Portlaoise last night. The film is only out 5 days and the print is destroyed already with tears and big marks on the left hand side of the screen. How the hell could that happen?

There is certainly no recession in cinema. €19.60 for 2 tickets and €9 for a coke and a bag of sweets! :eek:

jozi

Bond-007 wrote: »

I went to see New Moon in Portlaoise last night. The film is only out 5 days and the print is destroyed already with tears and big marks on the left hand side of the screen. How the hell could that happen?

There is certainly no recession in cinema. €19.60 for 2 tickets and €9 for a coke and a bag of sweets! :eek:

20 a month for just myself with the unlimited card and i rarely buy sweets/popcorn/drinks when im there because it's so expensive.