choosing a college help please?

TEMPLAR KNIGHT

hi everyone, so i live in limerick and there are two colleges in limerick the university of limerick and limerick institute of technology so im choosing to do accountancy after my leaving cert the trouble is deciding which college to go to, some people say that a university is better and that if i go to an institute of technology i will be less likely to get a job than a university student, my question is would this really matter if i was becoming an accountant or would it be more my grades that employers would check? thanks for reading this and i look forward to your reply!

jack90210

University>IT

ITs_rule

I felt compelled to leave a message after seeing jacks comment.

University's are not better at all. Its just that all the partners and directors are educated from uni's and not from IT's. They dont trust IT's as much but that is changing.

IT's are still young and have excellent accounting degrees, especially LIT. By all means do your degree in UL if you want to but dont think that you will be disadvantaged in anyway by doing either one of them.

If you are good at what you do, and work hard you will do well.

I went to an IT and have just started in KPMG.
IT=UNI:cool:

Seriously though, you have made a good choice in accountancy and I wish you good luck!

ma.long25

Univerisity for sure..

IT are for people who dont amke the cut into univeristy..

Trust me it will stnad to you in long run..

It will look bad on cv like LIT ... wont be great at all...

Ull be in clas with less clever people!! and such your ambition amy be runied!!

jessup

Do you have nothing better to do than trolling? This is almost as bad as your polish builder escapade. And this is from a man who went to university and you can't hack it in one of the Big 4. Says it all for the pedigree coming out of your college.

The Institute are doing an analysis to see if they can establish any causal factors to the high failure rates for certain papers, CAP 2 etc and guess what's coming out........higher failure rate from those who went to universities. Why? Higher points to get in for sure but; many lecturers that are very poor, lifelong academics with practically no industry experience, too much focus on research and publishing articles not enough on teaching, and assessment models that are too skewed towards continuous assessment and bull**** group assignments etc.

Did my undergrad in an IT, post grad in a University. The M Acc was/is a joke compared to my undergrad. No where near as hard and lulls many into a false sense of security with the exemptions who get an almighty shock when they have to do some real exams.

As for the CV angle, a second employer doesn't even look at that. You'll see many and ad with 'Big 4 experience essential'. There's no ad with 'must have gone to uni not an IT'. Thankfully, Accounting firms have a lot more experience than Mr know-it-all-troll Ma.long25 and their recruitment strategy is far more sophisticated and well informed than his bigoted crap.

Our HR Dept will deny it officially but they positively discriminate applicants who have done the Accounting Degree in LIT, Tallaght IT, AIT and Dundalk IT. They monitor this stuff closely and as a percentage have had far better results both in exams and for the firm over the last few years with people from these colleges than those with delusions of grandeur from uni.

ITs_rule

Well said Jessup.

ma.long25

jessup wrote: »

Do you have nothing better to do than trolling? This is almost as bad as your polish builder escapade. And this is from a man who went to university and you can't hack it in one of the Big 4. Says it all for the pedigree coming out of your college.

The Institute are doing an analysis to see if they can establish any causal factors to the high failure rates for certain papers, CAP 2 etc and guess what's coming out........higher failure rate from those who went to universities. Why? Higher points to get in for sure but; many lecturers that are very poor, lifelong academics with practically no industry experience, too much focus on research and publishing articles not enough on teaching, and assessment models that are too skewed towards continuous assessment and bull**** group assignments etc.

Did my undergrad in an IT, post grad in a University. The M Acc was/is a joke compared to my undergrad. No where near as hard and lulls many into a false sense of security with the exemptions who get an almighty shock when they have to do some real exams.

As for the CV angle, a second employer doesn't even look at that. You'll see many and ad with 'Big 4 experience essential'. There's no ad with 'must have gone to uni not an IT'. Thankfully, Accounting firms have a lot more experience than Mr know-it-all-troll Ma.long25 and their recruitment strategy is far more sophisticated and well informed than his bigoted crap.

Our HR Dept will deny it officially but they positively discriminate applicants who have done the Accounting Degree in LIT, Tallaght IT, AIT and Dundalk IT. They monitor this stuff closely and as a percentage have had far better results both in exams and for the firm over the last few years with people from these colleges than those with delusions of grandeur from uni.

Hi..

What planet are you living on... i think u have ur head on planet marz or soemthing.

Just look at the people the big four take on, there is a much greater of percentages from TCD and UCD commerces than Lowely IT's.

I went to a university myself and in 2007 most pople in my class ahd 3 -4 offers from big four firms, compared to this from those who are from IT most didnt have any offers and the good ones have one maybe two.

The likes of KPMG relly discrinate against IT and so do E and Y.

PWC and Deloitte are more lenient on thsoe they take on.

To be honest the B comm in UCD and A and F in DCU are the best accountancy courses in Ireland and here is why

1. High leaving cert point to enrty - minumum 450- this ensures all the rif raf who dont get the points are cut oup , so everyone in the course is above average intelligence. The couse is therefore marked harder and only the best of the best amnage to get 1st classes.

2. Commerce is very accoutnancy absed if you choose the accountancy route and you learn an awful lot.

While in IT

You have cut off points of about 250... all the rif raf with sub par leaving cert points get in.. thik about it if you got about 450 why the hell would u go to IT.

The average persson is a lot more stupud and those the course is easier...

It makes perfect sence, liek the likes of cambridge and oxford have way harder exams than cardiff, and nottingham..

If you took your head out of the clouds u would see what i am saying is true and that im not trolling at all.

I admit i maybe somewaht cynical but being cynical is better than having u head stuck in the clounds!!

ITs_rule

Arent you a struggling Big 4 trainee? You can have your uni degree mate

ma.long25

ITs_rule wrote: »

Arent you a struggling Big 4 trainee? You can have your uni degree mate

Again i feel you are being very disrespectful and snide.. what i am talking about is fact mate...

Its obvious ur going to agree about IT because you proberly were not good enough to get into a prober uni!!

Here tell me how many leaving cert point you got??

and tell us waht was your first chocie, proberly Univerity of limerick.. its a natural reaction for rejected people to give out..

Like those non big four always give out about the big four, UCd give out about tcd and so on and on.....

jessup

ma.long25 wrote: »

Hi..Just look at the people the big four take on, there is a much greater of percentages from TCD and UCD commerces than Lowely IT's.

I went to a university myself and in 2007 most pople in my class ahd 3 -4 offers from big four firms, compared to this from those who are from IT most didnt have any offers and the good ones have one maybe two.

No wonder you're struggling in a Big 4 firm if you can't work out percentages. So there are 30 from UCD Commerce and 3 from LIT in your firm. That's from a class of what 300 in UCD and 30 in LIT? 10% each!

As for offers in 2007, don't kid yourself about that. The dogs in the street were getting offers back then and the multiple offers were only to cover against people going elsewhere. Our firm used to make offers of exactly twice what they needed.

ma.long25 wrote: »

Commerce is very accoutnancy absed if you choose the accountancy route and you learn an awful lot.

If .........you choose the accountancy route. That's why many who pick the waffle route in Commerce are not getting in and those in the lowly ITs as you call it are!

ma.long25 wrote: »

1. High leaving cert point to enrty - minumum 450- this ensures all the rif raf who dont get the points are cut oup , so everyone in the course is above average intelligence. The couse is therefore marked harder and only the best of the best amnage to get 1st classes.

You obviously didn't do economics in school or college. Leaving Cert points have nothing to do with how difficult a course is. Its called 'demand'. When the points drop does that mean Commerce in UCD is now easier? The Unis and the likes of you do a very good job in convincing people that they are better when they are just the same HETAC level as everyone else. Just like me buying an Audi last week and my Dad asking me why I didn't go for the Skoda which is cheaper and essentially the same car. Nothing to do with substance. I've bought into the perception that the Audi is better, not the reality. Thankfully, you are not an employer or decision maker and those that are in those positions are well aware of the reality.

As for points, the Medical Schools have found out that this has little to do with ability,hence the new aptitude test. Ask the guys in CGS why they even exist and they'll tell you that's it because those who get 450 points and go the ACA route often have no better intellect but they have the benefit of additional resources such as fee paying schools and various grind schools etc. Many of these people do not have the intellect or ability to achieve these results without extra help. Alternatively the person who gets 300 points is doing so without the benefit of attending a fee paying school or grinds every weekend. When they get into a firm there is an even playing field for the first time and everyone can see that the guys from the ITs are just as good as the guys from Uni.

I have the benefit of both perspectives having done my undergrad in GMIT and post grad in UCD. I had points to do Commerce in NUIG but thankfully didn't listen to twats like you and did the course in GMIT. I got four offers too.......... as a GMIT graduate. As I explained in the last post the Institute have discovered that Uni students are struggling more than those who come from the ITs in exams. Explain that?

mr_edge_to_you

ma.long25 wrote: »

Univerisity for sure..

IT are for people who dont amke the cut into univeristy..

Trust me it will stnad to you in long run..

It will look bad on cv like LIT ... wont be great at all...

Ull be in clas with less clever people!! and such your ambition amy be runied!!

This is probably the most bizarre thing I've seen on Boards since I registered.

I am a graduate of Athlone Institute of Technology. I did a four year degree in Business Studies/Accounting, I only got a pass degree. I am currently finishing my CIMA finals. There is currently 15 exams on the sylabus. I was exempt from 9! My first job was as Assistant Accountant with the 2nd biggest food plc in the country. I subsequently worked with one of the largest convenience food companies in Ireland and am working with one of the largest bedding companies in Ireland and UK. The place where I got my degree never arose in the interview process for any of these three jobs.

When working with the plc in my frist job there was 11 accountants (qualified and part qualified) in the division. 9 went Athlone IT.

To the OP, you should base your decision on the course on the amount of exemptions you will get from it. This will make your route to the professional qualification quicker! My best friend did a 4 year degree in Maynooth and got 2 exemptions for ACCA - Athlone IT course was qualifying for as many 8 or 9 (I think!).

At the end of the day, most of us will qualify out of BPP, DBS or Independent Colleges!

mr_edge_to_you

ma.long25 wrote: »

Hi..

What planet are you living on... i think u have ur head on planet marz or soemthing.

Just look at the people the big four take on, there is a much greater of percentages from TCD and UCD commerces than Lowely IT's.

I went to a university myself and in 2007 most pople in my class ahd 3 -4 offers from big four firms, compared to this from those who are from IT most didnt have any offers and the good ones have one maybe two.

The likes of KPMG relly discrinate against IT and so do E and Y.

PWC and Deloitte are more lenient on thsoe they take on.

To be honest the B comm in UCD and A and F in DCU are the best accountancy courses in Ireland and here is why

1. High leaving cert point to enrty - minumum 450- this ensures all the rif raf who dont get the points are cut oup , so everyone in the course is above average intelligence. The couse is therefore marked harder and only the best of the best amnage to get 1st classes.

2. Commerce is very accoutnancy absed if you choose the accountancy route and you learn an awful lot.

While in IT

You have cut off points of about 250... all the rif raf with sub par leaving cert points get in.. thik about it if you got about 450 why the hell would u go to IT.

The average persson is a lot more stupud and those the course is easier...

It makes perfect sence, liek the likes of cambridge and oxford have way harder exams than cardiff, and nottingham..

If you took your head out of the clouds u would see what i am saying is true and that im not trolling at all.

I admit i maybe somewaht cynical but being cynical is better than having u head stuck in the clounds!!

I'm being really petty here but the spelling there is so bad you really have no right to say that by going to a University you will be in a class with more cleverer people.

FargoBoyle86

Said I'd throw in my two cents, to Templar Knight I would advise you to go to UL. If you get the points, take the course. From what I've heard it is a great University.
To deal with the uni v it, I am a graduate of an IT and got a Business Degree. I feel my course was excellent, well rounded and was able to really focus on Accountancy for my last 2 yrs. However, I believe the way the jobs market has gone, everyone has got to take every advantage they can, and to be honest there is still a slight prejudice against IT's.
Templar Knight even if you choose LIT it won't make a big difference, study hard and come out with good results and you'll be fine.

ma.long25

FargoBoyle86 wrote: »

Said I'd throw in my two cents, to Templar Knight I would advise you to go to UL. If you get the points, take the course. From what I've heard it is a great University.
To deal with the uni v it, I am a graduate of an IT and got a Business Degree. I feel my course was excellent, well rounded and was able to really focus on Accountancy for my last 2 yrs. However, I believe the way the jobs market has gone, everyone has got to take every advantage they can, and to be honest there is still a slight prejudice against IT's.
Templar Knight even if you choose LIT it won't make a big difference, study hard and come out with good results and you'll be fine.

Well said Fargo,

You said what i meant to say... that unis are esentially better on average.

Well done to yourself for getting good cima qualificaiton... but i still stand by my opeing thread that uni are better than IT!!

mr_edge_to_you

If you have a professional accountancy qualification it becomes irrelevant where you went to college.

ITs_rule

When you pass your exams come back and then give advice, and do yourself a favour and stop looking in the rearview mirror. Your uni degree is only a stepping stone, dont let it define you. Good luck

hinault

ma.long25 wrote: »

Hi..

What planet are you living on... i think u have ur head on planet marz or soemthing.

Just look at the people the big four take on, there is a much greater of percentages from TCD and UCD commerces than Lowely IT's.

I went to a university myself and in 2007 most pople in my class ahd 3 -4 offers from big four firms, compared to this from those who are from IT most didnt have any offers and the good ones have one maybe two.

The likes of KPMG relly discrinate against IT and so do E and Y.

PWC and Deloitte are more lenient on thsoe they take on.

To be honest the B comm in UCD and A and F in DCU are the best accountancy courses in Ireland and here is why

1. High leaving cert point to enrty - minumum 450- this ensures all the rif raf who dont get the points are cut oup , so everyone in the course is above average intelligence. The couse is therefore marked harder and only the best of the best amnage to get 1st classes.

2. Commerce is very accoutnancy absed if you choose the accountancy route and you learn an awful lot.

While in IT

You have cut off points of about 250... all the rif raf with sub par leaving cert points get in.. thik about it if you got about 450 why the hell would u go to IT.

The average persson is a lot more stupud and those the course is easier...

It makes perfect sence, liek the likes of cambridge and oxford have way harder exams than cardiff, and nottingham..

If you took your head out of the clouds u would see what i am saying is true and that im not trolling at all.

I admit i maybe somewaht cynical but being cynical is better than having u head stuck in the clounds!!

You can't string a legible sentence together.

And you're casting aspersions on other people!

jessup

ma.long25 wrote: »

Well said Fargo,

You said what i meant to say... that unis are esentially better on average.

Well done to yourself for getting good cima qualificaiton... but i still stand by my opeing thread that uni are better than IT!!

I'll think you'll find you said things like rif raf, sub par, stupid etc. :mad:

Words more suitable to describe yourself considering the tenet of your posts on several threads here which vary from racist, to biggoted, to ill informed, to illogical, to condescending all of which are various forms of trolling. You were banned once according to another thread. It should have been a life ban.

Is it just me or does anyone here think that ma.long25 isn't in KPMG at all. I've an awful suspicion that he works in Tax in Deloitte. First name has 'Ma', second name Long, from Cork, lives in a house No 25 owned by his Daddy near Landsdowne Road, loves himself and a complete **** stirrer (although I hope even he wouldn't stoop to the levels of ma.long25 here)?

Hoefully that's all a conincidence and I'm wrong. Gutted to think someone with these opinions is lurking around Deloitte. I feel sorry for KPMG and anyone there that has anything to do with him.

hinault

Some of the very best accountants I worked with never went to university or IT.
That's right.

Many fellas I worked with back in the day, were articled clerks with accounting practices.
They worked during the day and studied by night.

No full time courses for them.

Many of them never even finished their exams - yet were still able to get on and succeed in business.

Qualifications mean naff all in reality.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

obviously ma.long25 is way out of line here, but i won't bother banning / infracting him, although one of the accounting mods might want to do so. Think ye're handling his crap fine as it is!

fwiw i'm a lecturer in accounting and finance in a uni and i fail to see the benefits of going to either a uni or IT if you want to be an accountant afterwards. Just go straight into a practice and don't waste your time with uni imo. Having said that you are keeping me in work so thanks for that!

smcgiff

Hitchhiker's Guide to... wrote: »

fwiw i'm a lecturer in accounting and finance in a uni and i fail to see the benefits of going to either a uni or IT if you want to be an accountant afterwards. Just go straight into a practice and don't waste your time with uni imo.

Dear God, even accountants deserve to have a college life, be it IT or Uni. I personally would hate to deal with an accountant that went from the LC to practice. *Shudder*

College really are the best years of your life - and you MAY even get an education.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

smcgiff wrote: »

Dear God, even accountants deserve to have a college life, be it IT or Uni. I personally would hate to deal with an accountant that went from the LC to practice. *Shudder*

College really are the best years of your life - and you MAY even get an education.

Oh you are not wrong with that bit - college is an amazing experience, and i'd recommend it for that reason. Suppose i was just laughing a bit at the other guy claiming that different colleges can give you a different accounting education.

If you can get into a flagship business course like BESS in Trinity then definitely go for it, but i can't see how accounting in e.g. LIT could possibly be any less of an education.

EDIT: not sure if i'm now contradicting myself, but mehh Friday evening etc

hinault

I think what is important to say is that the Big4 usually only recruit trainees with university degrees.

hinault

Hitchhiker's Guide to... wrote: »

Oh you are not wrong with that bit - college is an amazing experience, and i'd recommend it for that reason. Suppose i was just laughing a bit at the other guy claiming that different colleges can give you a different accounting education.

If you can get into a flagship business course like BESS in Trinity then definitely go for it, but i can't see how accounting in e.g. LIT could possibly be any less of an education.

EDIT: not sure if i'm now contradicting myself, but mehh Friday evening etc

There is a snobbery issue, Hitch.

The professional accounting bodies like to waffle on about how their members have this degree or that degree.
Complete bollox of course.

In fact I would go further, the professional accounting bodies are useless.
All they're interested in is accumulating membership fees, and waffling.

Look at the conduct of their alleged members and the way in which they "missed" financial impropriety.
I look forward to see how ICAI deal with their member Seanie Fitzpatrick for example.

jessup

And the CEO (Davin Drumm) and the CFO (Willie McAteer) and the Auditors E&Y.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/probe-into-anglo-loans-to-golden-circle-hit-by-delays-1924377.html

The Institute are going to have to recover that €1million from somewhere! A whole other thread to look forward to in Feb 2010 :eek:

Employers asking for Big 4 experience is their way of saying University grads only.

Really there isn't much of a difference though these days - if you are diligent and have interpersonal skills you will do well.

University probably sounds better internationally.

(Commerce and CIMA myself)

dee8839

From what I have heard from friends, ITs have a slight advantage in that they do more practical work and keep more of an eye on their students attendance-wise.

Having said that, I did accounting in UL and there are some great lecturers here. If you do Business and major in Accounting, I'll just warn you that you won't have the CAP 1 Law exemption and you won't do a tax module until 4th year (although actually thats the old system, so maybe its different now, easy to check). If you do Law and Accounting, you have all CAP 1 exemptions and you do tax from 2nd year on. I would agree that you should maybe look at what exemptions you get from each course and make your decision that way. Exemptions weren't emphasised for us until 4th year which was stupid, because I think if we had that aim in mind we might have worked harder!!

In my year, who graduated last May, a good proportion of people got jobs in the Big 4, but it tended to be that Business students went for audit and L&A went for tax. Don't know if that's usual, I'd say it is.

Just on a personal note, I've never gone to LIT so can't speak for them, but UL is an amazing place to go to college. I had intended on going to NUIG, all the way through secondary school, but if I could go back now I would always choose UL, for the campus, the nightlife, the close proximity of all student accommodation to the college... Best 4 years of my life.

Good luck with your future, wherever you end up. Oh, and malong25 - I'm guessing you must have had a great spell check on your computer when filling out the application form for the job you supposedly now have in KPMG, because you are one step short of illiterate, university degree or not.

TEMPLAR KNIGHT

thanks everyone!

smcgiff

Deleted User wrote: »

Employers asking for Big 4 experience is their way of saying University grads only.

Eh! If employers want someone with a University degree they will ask for it. Potential employers are not shy when asking for requirements. It's not as if it's illegal to ask for a university degree.

Now, what would be fair to say is that employers with prior Big 4 experience may wish to employ Big 4 experienced employees and request such. It does happen, but rarely.

I've seen ads where they specifically ask for CPA only, ACA only, CIMA only or ACCA only. Guess what qualification the employer most likely has in these instances?

I would recommend the Uni experience because it's usually a more full experience, not to mention the history and traditions of the institution.

Good luck

adri234

I'm in the same dilema i'm unsure about where to put down! I think Law and Accounting in U.L would be ideal but i havent heard any reviews? does anybody know where I could check these out? and also the business degree whats that like does anybody know? or would commerce in Galway be better (where i'm from) also is Plassey the best first year village in u.l as i would be moving there on my own:(

All help appreciated!

thanks!

smcgiff

adri234 wrote: »

I'm in the same dilema i'm unsure about where to put down! I think Law and Accounting in U.L would be ideal but i havent heard any reviews? does anybody know where I could check these out? and also the business degree whats that like does anybody know? or would commerce in Galway be better (where i'm from) also is Plassey the best first year village in u.l as i would be moving there on my own:(

All help appreciated!

thanks!

I've only ever heard good things about UL. However, for more specific advice re courses go to the education forum on boards and look up UL and NUI Galway.

Good luck

jessup

Facilities in UL are best in the country, but the social life in Galway is.........well you know that.

The Commerce degree in NUIG is only three years long. That was a major factor that made me pick the four year Business Study degree in GMIT. Couldn't afford to go to college outside Galway so my options were limited to those two.

I've heard of a few examples where the NUIG B Comm comes back to haunt people, particularly when contrasted with the B Comm in UCC. Exemptions for Accountancy exams for starters if you're thinking of going down that road and even at graduate interview where three years for Arts is deemed ok but not for a Business degree?

DOC09UNAM

ma.long25 wrote: »

Again i feel you are being very disrespectful and snide.. what i am talking about is fact mate...

Its obvious ur going to agree about IT because you proberly were not good enough to get into a prober uni!!

Here tell me how many leaving cert point you got??

and tell us waht was your first chocie, proberly Univerity of limerick.. its a natural reaction for rejected people to give out..

Like those non big four always give out about the big four, UCd give out about tcd and so on and on.....

How did you get into either a college, or an It??

Don't you need to pass English to get into college??

namenotavailablE

The OP might be able to 'have it both ways' ie start in an IOT and complete typically 2 years of a business program. S/he can then transfer to year 2/3 of a University course.

A number of the IOT's have links with Universities by which students can transfer in this manner. You may lose 1 year by taking this route but you will benefit from the greater exposure to practical work that the IOT programme offers which can stand you in good stead for the University programme. The downside (apart from the loss of time) is that- as a newcomer into the University programme- it may be somewhat more difficult to 'break into' the social groups that have established themselves but that really depends.

My own experience- I took this route (DkIT to DCU, many years ago...) and enjoyed the DkIT more than DCU!

I'd also point out that many IOT students have performed and continue to perform to a very high level. A former student of mine was placed joint 1st in the FAE and we have had students who have won awards for individual papers at ACCA level/ technician level. Ultimately, any course (whether delivered at an IOT or a University) is simply a platform for the graduate- s/he must make of it what s/he will.