IS SEO killing Google and web search in general

BrianD

Over the past couple of years I have noticed that the quality of search through Google has declined greatly. In the past you could do some decent research online through Google and turn up some genuinely useful articles.

Many of these were academic articles and I would guess that many institutions may be taking these offline or making them unavailable to the public. The problem I find that when you do a search now youcome up with junk - no doubt these are pages are super optimised for searc hbut the content is rubbish.

The other thing that I have heard lately is "reputation restoration" where say a company that has a few bad articles on Google will get expert help to restore the reputation by flooding the web with optimised press releases. So often the same article with the published through different sites.

They say more people have been on Everest then on the 10th page of a Google search. One wonders if hat's the place to start for useful stuff!

conolan

Definitely an issue. A lot of repeat articles, too many shopping comparison sites masquerading as reviews. Google helps with the option of less shopping sites. Of course the SEO junkies will just come back with more tricks.

link8r

It's an interesting question and one I've been thinking about a lot too. And I agree and I think its a great pity.

One web designer was telling me why he detested SEO's because they had a client who got in company XYZ who wanted to build hundreds of "articles" and hub-pages and press releases and spam etc.

The web in the 1990's had such a community buzz and almost amateurish approach (I mean that in a genuine way - it wasn't professional, as in just money making. The way the olympics are amateur sports, not paid professionals...another story) . And it was nice and you could learn stuff. Thats how things like Craigslist and Yahoo and Alta-vista were born.

The new web is buy now, pay now, tidbits of advice with signup "now" forms.

That content is all still there and I hope that social media will bring that out more - to let us share content. I hate reading about the new social media marketing that's ramping up massively. I understand it, and I understand that companies need to monitor what people are saying, what message they want to get out - I think that should/could empower consumers because it helps competitors too. But its the heavy sell advertising and stuff that I would hate to see.

tomED

I personally don't agree.

SEO has been around a long time, well before Google was popular, we had the exact same problem then as we are beginning to see now with Google. The search engines of the day were throwing out irrelevant results, then change came in the shape of Google (and thank God it did!).

Google's popularity soared because it was providing results that were more relevant than any other search engine before them had ever produced. This was because of their ingenius way of ranking websites. Now however, a lot more people know how to play their algorithmn and Google started tweaking things. But tweaking was all they did.

Google seem to have this arrogance about them now, that rather than focus on providing quality results, they seem to be focusing on improving user experience. They don't seem to be afraid of any other search engine taking over it's massive market share. Why bother improving search results when plenty of people are willing to spend to be on top of the search results via Google Adwords.

Just look at their latest addition, the "show options" tool that they recently brought into. This seems to be their only major attempt at only users to improve their search experience. Even thought I love this facility, I don't think it's clear enough and I imagine most still don't even know it's there.

I can honestly say I have no problems finding content I am looking for, but I do have a lot of tricks up my sleeves now and maybe that's another side of Google's arrogance. They themselves know of these tricks and probably expect anyone that uses Google to know them too.

Statistics show that people as a whole are searching differntly and being more specific with their searches. In the past people would tend to search for a 2/3 word keyphrase, nowadays it's 4/5.

SEO is dying a death anyway, the only people keeping it alive are those that do it for a living. Google are certainly trying their damnedest to make sure anything that worked in the past has little, if any effect on the SERPs like they used to. Google will continue to try and rid its SERPs of spam, but are they going to create a brand new algorithmn to fight it? I doubt it.

If you think about how we use the web now and how quickly things are changing, it's hard to imagine where we'll be in 5 years time.

One thing is for certain, the whole concept of how we find information today is changing constantly. Take news as an example, people are starting to believe that if the news is important enough "it will find me" rather than "them finding it". That's a huge change in how people used the web in the past.

So I guess what I'm saying is - you can't solely blame the demise of web search on SEO, there is a lot more to it than that!

link8r

I still find this hilarious, a year on. For an SEO competition, in which my new domain turned out to be have blacklisted by Google in a previous incarnation. However, I published this little nugget of a press release on a remote PR site, having no idea that it would get picked up Irish mainstream media. Not only did the paper pick up on it, but the main radio station in Limerick must get their new from the same sources, if not just directly from the paper.

There were a few stories but this is the one that they kept up. I really had no idea that they would actually run with it, but maybe someone will also find this funny:

Original: http://www.merinews.com/article/geansai-gorm-plant-to-open-in-limerick/150568.shtml

After the Limerick Leader realised it was a hoax: http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Geansai-Gorm-is-an-elaborate.4741060.jp

link8r

tomED wrote: »

SEO is dying a death anyway, the only people keeping it alive are those that do it for a living. Google are certainly trying their damnedest to make sure anything that worked in the past has little, if any effect on the SERPs like they used to. Google will continue to try and rid its SERPs of spam, but are they going to create a brand new algorithmn to fight it? I doubt it.

May I add to this - firstly, I doubt there is a universally accepted definition of SEO. SEO to some people is just throwing keywords in, to others its just about creating spammy articles, pages, sites etc.

To me, SEO is about online marketing and online business development. Search Engines have provided users with the ability to research a product or service before they buy it. Before the web, you had little to go on unless you knew people who had bought the product you wanted to buy. So the web will continue to be of major importance in influencing how people buy, so online marketing will continue to be important.

This may be controversial to say, but I think its true, and therefore worth mentioning: A large amount of web designers (not all but lots) have never sold anything online - they sell through referral and they focus heavily on design, branding, aesthetics - all things that search engines don't look at. Yet, many web designers have issues with SEO (???) and quite often when I meet someone with a business that isn't developing online, their web designers strategy would be, in 99% of cases, to go for a redesign. So, we have a web design industry that is using traditional off-line advertising and marketing methods in an electronic media that is largely ignoring many of those techniques - so somebody has to step in and provide the knowledge of how to market and sell online - and I can tell you clearly: Its not about design!

HandWS LTD

link8r wrote: »

so somebody has to step in and provide the knowledge of how to market and sell online - and I can tell you clearly: Its not about design!

It never was and never will be about the Design. The design is only to make the website user friendly and make the visitors want to buy something from you. This has clearly nothing to do with seo. This is what most designers either don't know or are not bothered with (They tend to just rely on making a good looking website). SEO is not just about having good code's in your pages that search engines want. There is no end road to SEO.....as online marketing & development are a major factor in this too.

p.s funny article in limerick there.

link8r

Thanks @HandWS - it was a lot of fun creating those articles. Coming up with a funny story made in slightly entertaining. It directly ended up with a super large opportunity from a very big company.

It depends how you define SEO. I would now look at SEO as being important and overarching in determining an online marketing strategy. Looking at how we deal with Search Engine Marketing, I think SEO would be the primary driver of:

• Site Layout
• design
• architecture
• Content
• PPC

tomED

link8r wrote: »

May I add to this - firstly, I doubt there is a universally accepted definition of SEO. SEO to some people is just throwing keywords in, to others its just about creating spammy articles, pages, sites etc.

To me, SEO is about online marketing and online business development. Search Engines have provided users with the ability to research a product or service before they buy it.

In fairness, SEO is clear in its definition. SEO is only one PART of an online marketing and online business development strategy.

I've never come across anyone who ever got that mixed up until now.

link8r wrote: »

This may be controversial to say, but I think its true, and therefore worth mentioning: A large amount of web designers (not all but lots) have never sold anything online - they sell through referral and they focus heavily on design, branding, aesthetics - all things that search engines don't look at. Yet, many web designers have issues with SEO (???) and quite often when I meet someone with a business that isn't developing online, their web designers strategy would be, in 99% of cases, to go for a redesign. So, we have a web design industry that is using traditional off-line advertising and marketing methods in an electronic media that is largely ignoring many of those techniques - so somebody has to step in and provide the knowledge of how to market and sell online - and I can tell you clearly: Its not about design!

HandWS LTD wrote: »

It never was and never will be about the Design. The design is only to make the website user friendly and make the visitors want to buy something from you. This has clearly nothing to do with seo. This is what most designers either don't know or are not bothered with (They tend to just rely on making a good looking website). SEO is not just about having good code's in your pages that search engines want. There is no end road to SEO.....as online marketing & development are a major factor in this too.

I don't think that's fair at all...

While design changes are not required (in most cases) in order to make your website search engine friendly - they are extremely important in terms of improving conversion rates - so before lambasting a design agency for suggesting a redesign, make sure you ask the reasons why first.

If a company approached us and told us they wanted to go on a SEO campaign and their site looked and functioned terribly, the first thing I would do is suggest a redesign. I'd make it clear to them that SEO will help bring traffic, not convert that traffic to sales. Major difference between the two!!

And a lot of SEO companies don't make this distinction...

link8r

When we sit down to look at a site and where Search Engines are an important factor, then SEO will dictate things like site design, domain choices, site layout.

If Adwords is the most important factor, then you can go back to a single domain with as much or as little content as you want. AdWords can turn on traffic from any geo-target regardless of how much/little content is there, relevance or authority.

So where a company is building an online presence and organic traffic is the key, then SEO will need to be the starting point.

When exploring the SEO strategy, we may find that a single site/domain isn't going to work (for many reasons). If the company wants to target 2 different geo-locations (e.g. Ireland and Northern Ireland), this may be another good reason. If the sector is highly competitive, we may need to break it out in order to prevent dilution of the authority of the site.

So SEO is not something that is necessarily applied to an existing site - it is in my opinion and experience the actual starting point, that directs the development of a website strategy to deliver on the SEO targets, not the other way around.

link8r

tomED wrote: »

If a company approached us and told us they wanted to go on a SEO campaign and their site looked and functioned terribly, the first thing I would do is suggest a redesign. I'd make it clear to them that SEO will help bring traffic, not convert that traffic to sales. Major difference between the two!!

And a lot of SEO companies don't make this distinction...

A site with little or no traffic won't sell - good/bad design or otherwise.

A site with strong organic traffic will sell - and they do sell. I'm not saying they won't sell better, I'm trying to get the order of importance.

Wait 2-3 months and get a new site, who says the new design will be guaranteed to deliver a higher conversion rate?

I have some really, really, really awful old sites that sell very well. Upgraded new designs make little difference in many cases - depends on whats being sold. Thats why SEO and SEO strategy should be the starting point....?

tomED

I wasn't sure where you were going with the first response, but now I do after the second post!

I think we have two totally different opinions on how to market a business online. Our first focus with a website is always on usability and conversion. This is the science and theory piece. Everything after that is purely grafting.

Working hard on developing a site that is clearly focused, easy to use and clearly gets the message across is the hardest part of any online marketing project. If the mistakes are made here, it's the hardest to change, so therefore getting this right is of key importance.

The definition of a badly designed website is hugely debatable. Is it badly designed because it looks poor or is it because people can't use it?
The two, are completely different issues.

If your so called "badly designed" sites are making sales, something isn't badly designed and can be improved on with good design. Clearly something is engaging with visitors to the website.

Have you split tested or monitored what it is that is making people make the sale? If not, why not? Are you happy to assume that it's the volume of traffic to the site that is making the sale??

For me assuming that it's the traffic just isn't enough anymore. There are way too many free tools available to help us easily indentify why and where sales are coming from.

When the average enquiry for any marketing exercise being 2-3%, the aim of any business should be to at least aim for this average. If they are not hitting this, there's something clearly wrong with the message they are giving with their website.

Of course, I agree there are no guarentees that your website will work, but with experience and a proven record, there are plenty of things you can do to increase your chances of success. Conversion rate optimisation is a continuous effort. It's not something you do once and then leave it at that. You should be constantly trying to improve it, even the smallest changes make a difference.

Having said all that, I do completely agree that SEO is not something that should be "bolted on" at the end of a project and it should be part of the online marketing strategy, but it's certainly not the starting point.

Your knowledge of SEO should help with making key decisions in relation to your online marketing strategy, but it should certainly not define it.

link8r

Absolutely agree with your points above. And these are very generalised points from my side, this just demonstrates the speed at which the web is moving in different directions - the specialism in UI, A/B testing, Conversion Engineering, SEM, etc etc...!

Nice to have a grown up conversation too with everyone!

tomED

link8r wrote: »

this just demonstrates the speed at which the web is moving in different directions - the specialism in UI, A/B testing, Conversion Engineering, SEM, etc etc...!

Absolutely - when I started optimising sites, the phrase SEO had just been coined, hardly anyone knew about it. That was just over a decade ago. Now every Tom, Dick and Harry claims to be a SEO.

Things are constantly changing and we had plenty of tearful moments over the years when trialing new techniques ended in disasters - but that's what you need to do in this game.

My biggest pet hate is someone who has read a forum/book and thinks that's it. They've generally missed the previous 15 years, take the information completely out of context and go off and start a new theory on how to rank.

If there's one thing in SEO that I've learned over the years is, nothing is black and white and you should be constantly testing new techniques to see which ones work best for you.

The moral of the story is, SEO has been around a long time, longer than Google - so if anything, Google is killing SEO!!