left out of will

snowy2008

my mother died and left everything to my dad and now hes died and left lock stock and barrell of my eldest brother and nothing else to anyone, will he have to buy us off?? he was left all the money and all properties my parents owned

Robbo

You really need to see a solicitor.

Reloc8

Totally agree. In the circumstances you describe Section 117 of the Succession Act offers a cause of action. There are time limits - you need a solicitor's advice at the very earliest possible opportunity.

Victor

The other siblings have rights.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1965/en/act/pub/0027/index.html

macy9

What is it with parents and their eldest son.

Hope you can get the fairest result.

dats_right

macy9 wrote: »

What is it with parents and their eldest son.
.

That has absolutely no relevance whatsoever. OP needs to see a solicitor asap.

snowy2008

turns out we were left 2k each and that it is and he gets a property and assets worth 400k, nice......

dats_right

snowy2008 wrote: »

turns out we were left 2k each and that it is and he gets a property and assets worth 400k, nice......

If you are dissatified with the provision made for you, then you should contact a solicitor. Depending on the circumstances you may well have a valid section 117 claim, but it is impossible to know without the full facts.

The_Minister

macy9 wrote: »

What is it with parents and their eldest son.

Hope you can get the fairest result.

Primogeniture ftw.

dats_right

The_Minister wrote: »

Primogeniture ftw.

Hasn't had any relavance in nearly fifty years! Section 117 of Succession Act 1965 is the only law governing childrens rights to inherit.

The_Minister

dats_right wrote: »

Hasn't had any relavance in nearly fifty years! Section 117 of Succession Act 1965 is the only law governing childrens rights to inherit.

Legally no, but it is still a strong idea in some families (normally country ones).

maidhc

The_Minister wrote: »

Legally no, but it is still a strong idea in some families (normally country ones).

Indeed. Especially where there are farms involved.

S 117 is really the nuclear option, and as other people have said on the thread, the background facts may indeed make the various dispositions inherently fair.

Victor

The_Minister wrote: »

Legally no, but it is still a strong idea in some families (normally country ones).

And one wonders why them thar cuntry slictars aren't dissuading them.

dats_right

Victor wrote: »

And one wonders why them thar cuntry slictars aren't dissuading them.

I'm not a country solicitor, but have had plenty of clients who want to leave everything to one child or another, or split the estate to the exclusion of one or two chidlren, etc. I always advise and explain to my clients the provisions contained in section 117 and the effect this may have on the distribution of their estate. Many will change their instructions accordingly, but many will not, notwithstanding my advices, and will instruct me to draft a will in their original terms e.g. leaving a valuable estate to one child to the exclusion of all others, where the circumstances really leave a glaring section 117 case open to the aggrieved children. In such a case, it is prudent to write to the testator confirming your advices, take a very detailed attendance and instructions to protect oneself from any future claims. Ultimately, therefore it is quite likely that said "cuntry slicitars" do the very same and said testators are acting against their advices.

snowy2008

in all honesty, i dont want the farm to be sold, my brother has several properties fully owned by himself and im renting an apartment, all i want is a deposit for a home of my own, i called yesterday and he told me to f off, so do i write to him and his solicitor and say this is what i want???

Jo King

You need to get a solicitor to write to him. Section 117's are difficult cases and there is a high likelihood that you will mess things up by writing yourself.

maidhc

Victor wrote: »

And one wonders why them thar cuntry slictars aren't dissuading them.

As a "cuntry solicitor" with farming clients (and as a part time farmer myself) I find the above an insulting and rather ill informed post, especially by a moderator.

There are lots of reasons, and many perfectly valid why parents would do the above. Often it is in "asset rich - cash poor" situations where one sibling has farmed the land and the others got a decent education and good jobs. It is often easy for someone to point at a farm and say €500k, but equally that may return a living of 30k p.a. for the person who gets it.

The law recognises this with reliefs from CAT, young trained farmer relief and so forth.

Personally I advise people to sort things out when they are still alive. Not only does it avoid a crock of sh1te when they die, but the person receiving the land is normally happy to talk business, be it in giving sites to siblings and/or paying his/her parents maintenance.

mrak

OP - I feel for you and your family. It's an awful situation, particularly on top of your parent's death. I was in the same position as you a number of years ago and you have to make some tough choices. A big part of it for me was that you view the inheritance as a reflection of what your parents thought of you so you are particularly sensitive. My will is already made (since I was 30) and my natural and adopted kids get even shares of whatever I leave.

In the end I more or less sucked it up rather than start a legal wrangle in my own family and strangely I get on fine with my brother now - but it took years to really let it go. Best of luck in finding a resolution.

walrusgumble

Jesus, talking about a possible civil war on your hands. I don't think anyone would envy your plight.

If action was taking, wouldn't previous gifts/ transactions such as past provisions for education etc, or promises to do or give something (made by parents(s)), given by parent(s) be taken into account? (assuming of course that was the case)

Micky Dolenz

This reminds of a situation my friend found herself in.

Her dad died and left a farm to her brother, there are four children, another boy and two girls. The Eldest boy got the farm and the family home, the other children got all other assests mostly money, about 10k each.

My friend explained that she understood what happened, the eldest boy like the rest of them always worked the farm from a young age. But he stayed around when all the rest went to college and followed their own paths, the eldest followed his, farming.

Her parents didn't want to see the farm broke up so left the business to the one who could run it and maintain it. The other children got the cash that was saved up.

My friend explained to me that splitting land 4 ways would not work, they would sell to there brother if so, but even then he would be in no position to buy 3/4 of a farm, not on a farmers wage.

to make a long story short, he did give them all a site each.

walrusgumble

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

This reminds of a situation my friend found herself in.

Her dad died and left a farm to her brother, there are four children, another boy and two girls. The Eldest boy got the farm and the family home, the other children got all other assests mostly money, about 10k each.

My friend explained that she understood what happened, the eldest boy like the rest of them always worked the farm from a young age. But he stayed around when all the rest went to college and followed their own paths, the eldest followed his, farming.

Her parents didn't want to see the farm broke up so left the business to the one who could run it and maintain it. The other children got the cash that was saved up.

My friend explained to me that splitting land 4 ways would not work, they would sell to there brother if so, but even then he would be in no position to buy 3/4 of a farm, not on a farmers wage.

to make a long story short, he did give them all a site each.

That was a good result, from what you know was that voluntary, on behalf of the brother, or did he have to be nudged a bit by his siblings. I am sure many have heard some right horror stories.

Micky Dolenz

walrusgumble wrote: »

That was a good result, from what you know was that voluntary, on behalf of the brother, or did he have to be nudged a bit by his siblings. I am sure many have heard some right horror stories.

I think he offered before it became too much of an issue. They all knew the score and felt he was the only one that would have worked it. A couple of the other kids had gone travelling so it's not like the son had to compete with anyother sibling that worked the farm full time.

Reloc8

snowy2008 wrote: »

in all honesty, i dont want the farm to be sold, my brother has several properties fully owned by himself and im renting an apartment, all i want is a deposit for a home of my own, i called yesterday and he told me to f off, so do i write to him and his solicitor and say this is what i want???

No don't do that. Engage a solicitor yourself to correspond. It would be lovely to think you don't have to do this and this is all going to sort itself out quickly but that is utterly unrealistic.

snowy2008

Just something that came to light, when my mam died she left everything she had to my dad and nothing in the will about if she died before him, everything is divided, so dad never bothered getting the house changed over into his name so the question is now, can a dead person give another dead person property and can my dads will actually be valid because the house was never his to give away since it was never signed over??

snowy2008

i think this is good news, my brother just contacted our solicitor to get a valuation done on all of the properties, is this a good sign?

Up Beat

snowy2008 wrote: »

in all honesty, i dont want the farm to be sold, my brother has several properties fully owned by himself and im renting an apartment, all i want is a deposit for a home of my own, i called yesterday and he told me to f off, so do i write to him and his solicitor and say this is what i want???

I would repeat the advise already given to you. Make an appointment with a Solicitor as soon as possible. You urgently need proper legal advise.

Jo King

O/P you need to get a solicitor, and not the one your brother is using. Property passes on death, not when it is signed over.

Gurgle

snowy2008 wrote: »

my mother died and left everything to my dad and now hes died and left lock stock and barrell of my eldest brother and nothing else to anyone, will he have to buy us off?? he was left all the money and all properties my parents owned

Sorry for your loss.
As the others said, you have rights.

To the best of my knowledge though, your rights end at a share in the family home.

Get a solicitor and good luck.

snowy2008

thanks for everyones help, i'll get onto it asap!

Jesus Wept

I don't want this taken the wrong way. I am not trying to rile up the OP.

But generally, should a person not be entitled to leave their assets to whom the choose, regardless of whether other people/family members get less or none?

Jo King

Public policy says otherwise, and has done for years. There are minimum entitlements of spouses prescribed by law and there is provision in the Succession Act for children of the deceased to claim that they were not adequately provide for. The standard applied is that of a just and prudent parent. Various factors at the date of death are taken into account.
Changing the law could lead to sever hardship.

Maximilian

OP needs to consult a solicitor.

Thread closed.