I Want To Get Off Job Seekers Allowance And Start Up In Business.

IT Loser

Hi there.

My college background is Law, Masters in Law etc.

I have had difficulty getting permanent work in the legal sector and have been claiming JSA, as of May 2009, not payable until September 2009.

Recently I hit upon an idea which involves recycling- collecting trash from buiding sites, domestic and industrial, and converting it into a profitable recyclable asset.

I have purchased tools and machinery for this purpose.

While I am very familiar with the legal aspects of sole tradership, parntership and basic company law, I am unfamiliar with the practical day-to-day aspects of it- such as the best route to follow- do I incorporate a small company with myself as the sole director, or what?

Furthermore, I am not familiar with the mechanics of paying tax and prsi. I understand the legal obligations {and the penalty for not meeting same} but I am not familiar with how to meet those obligations.

Any help would be gratefully received as I am tired of the dole and ready to go out on my own.

Cheers:)

DanGlee

Hi there.

Firstly, agreed, the dole sucks. I'm on it and trying to get off via the same route (different business idea)

I too am not sure about the tax or PRSI, but I can off the little knowledge I have picked up so far from trying to start my own business.

Firstly, you would be best being a limited company, which would make you and a 2nd person (you need a 2nd person) directors. You need a secretary too, but you can be that also. (I'm having my missus as 2nd director, its no way means you have to pay them as far as I know, it just makes things easier)

As a limited company, you "technically" would be employed by that company, even though its yours and you own it. This means the "company" is liable for any debts you may get in and not you (if you were a sole trader)

Also, a second thing you may or may not be aware of if the Back To Work Scheme. I'm joining this. It basically means you can claim your dole and start your business (can't remember site, it'll be the revenue.ie I think that has all the details) Basically you go onto the scheme by filling in the forms, meeting with somebody to discuss your plan and business and they will hopefully allow you to go onto the scheme. There are two options, if you are on credits you can claim your credits fully until they run out or the 2nd option is to fill in a form for the number of days you worked and claim for the rest (I'm meeting on Friday to discuss this, can't offer much advice as I not sure myself) it basically means if you got work for 4 days, you would fill in your weekly form with 4 crosses in the boxes and claim for 1 day dole. (very simplified version there, please don't quote me!)

Also, I've gone to the local Enterprise board and put in a project plan (couple of pages) and have put in for a start up grant. I not heard back yet, but thats another option that might get you started if you haven't done it already!

Best of luck dude!

DG.

suey71

About a ltd.company.

I 'm not going this route myself but I have heard that if you are a director of a company and if things go bust, then you cant claim the dole.
I'm not totally sure if this is true, but if it is make sure your director knows what he/she is getting into.

Would you not start off as a SoleTrader and see how things pan out.

IT Loser

suey71 wrote: »

About a ltd.company.

I 'm not going this route myself but I have heard that if you are a director of a company and if things go bust, then you cant claim the dole.
I'm not totally sure if this is true, but if it is make sure your director knows what he/she is getting into.

Would you not start off as a SoleTrader and see how things pan out.

A company can be wound up without going bust, so to speak, it can be sold on, it can be amalgamated, it can cease to trade because its purpose has become redundant, obsolete, illegal etc. A company which is making profit at the time of winding-up need not be said to have gone bust.

Sole Trader sounds like a good idea, for sure. One thing which I have to consider is that it is down to the Dept of Social.Family Affairs to approve your scheme- and thats where they might say that Ltd. Co. is more impressive than Sole Trader, or vice versa.

Thanks!:cool:

IT Loser

DanGlee wrote: »

Hi there.

Firstly, agreed, the dole sucks. I'm on it and trying to get off via the same route (different business idea)

I too am not sure about the tax or PRSI, but I can off the little knowledge I have picked up so far from trying to start my own business.

Firstly, you would be best being a limited company, which would make you and a 2nd person (you need a 2nd person) directors. You need a secretary too, but you can be that also. (I'm having my missus as 2nd director, its no way means you have to pay them as far as I know, it just makes things easier)

As a limited company, you "technically" would be employed by that company, even though its yours and you own it. This means the "company" is liable for any debts you may get in and not you (if you were a sole trader)

Also, a second thing you may or may not be aware of if the Back To Work Scheme. I'm joining this. It basically means you can claim your dole and start your business (can't remember site, it'll be the revenue.ie I think that has all the details) Basically you go onto the scheme by filling in the forms, meeting with somebody to discuss your plan and business and they will hopefully allow you to go onto the scheme. There are two options, if you are on credits you can claim your credits fully until they run out or the 2nd option is to fill in a form for the number of days you worked and claim for the rest (I'm meeting on Friday to discuss this, can't offer much advice as I not sure myself) it basically means if you got work for 4 days, you would fill in your weekly form with 4 crosses in the boxes and claim for 1 day dole. (very simplified version there, please don't quote me!)

Also, I've gone to the local Enterprise board and put in a project plan (couple of pages) and have put in for a start up grant. I not heard back yet, but thats another option that might get you started if you haven't done it already!

Best of luck dude!

DG.

Thanks for your reply:cool: The Dept of Soc/Fam Affairs {aka Dole} must, when it comes to BTWA, approve your self-employment scheme.

I fail to see how they could not approve it if I were to register for tax and vat. I mean....introducing oneself to the taxman is hardly the epitome of a sham endeavour!!!

Also, even if they approve you, I now hear that one has to be on the dole {JSA} for, and get this, 12 months minimum.

In other words, if I stay on the dole until MAY, and they approve my scheme, I can get the full dole for a year, plus my profits.

But if I quit and start now, I get...nought, except what I make myself, which will be a small amount as I would be just starting up.

Way to encourage initiative:rolleyes:

Tomthepost

The scheme is called the back to work enterprise allowance. It used to be just for people that have been out of work for a year but now you only got to be out for 3 months.
1: Get a form from Social about the scheme.
2: Make an appointment with your local partnership. They will probably try to take your idea apart so be prepared for it.
3: They will send you away with a Back to Work Enterprise Business Plan Workbook and you will be asked to arrange a meeting with theire accountant.
4: Accountant goes through plan offers advise and asks you to fill in forms TR1 Cert (maybe different if registering as a Ltd):
5: Hopefully at this stage the partnership will approve everything and send you off to social to get you on the scheme.

You will then get social straight into your bank account for the remainder of the 12month period that you have been unemployed and I think 75% of that amount for the following 12 months not sure on that though.

Also entitles you to things like a medical card and other benefits.

Tomthepost

IT Loser wrote: »

Thanks for your reply:cool: The Dept of Soc/Fam Affairs {aka Dole} must, when it comes to BTWA, approve your self-employment scheme.

I fail to see how they could not approve it if I were to register for tax and vat. I mean....introducing oneself to the taxman is hardly the epitome of a sham endeavour!!!

Also, even if they approve you, I now hear that one has to be on the dole {JSA} for, and get this, 12 months minimum.

In other words, if I stay on the dole until MAY, and they approve my scheme, I can get the full dole for a year, plus my profits.

But if I quit and start now, I get...nought, except what I make myself, which will be a small amount as I would be just starting up.

Way to encourage initiative:rolleyes:

You are wrong here fortunately. See above the 12 months thing is gone.

DanGlee

Was just about to reply about the 12 month thing.

I am on dole 6 months, but read the same thing on the website about 12 months. They need to update this info.

As for the approval process, I'm not sure. The man I met immediately said it would be OK because I'm still claiming credits, so he didn't really care about the business I'm starting? Kinda weird! Not sure if its different if you on the dole for couple of years then looking to get on the scheme? The welfare is a very messed up system IMHO!

The only people (person) that I went to that asked a million and one questions about the business plan was the enterprise board, but I was sent to them via the welfare office, so I am assuming its all integrated, hence the reason the welfare man didn't tear into me and my idea like the enterprise man did
(I say tear into me...) he was feckin sound as a pound, put everything into perspective as he owns his own business and does the enterprise thing as a volunteer to help people like us to make sure we not getting into something where we will get a huge dept or its going to cost too much to run etc...

IT Loser

Hello everybody, and thank you for the very helpful replies you have all posted.

So, I could get started on this right away, the time period in question has been drastically reduced? Thats great!

I understand that the Dept. would want to take a "Dragons Den" look at my business proposal. Thats fine. Country is full of sham artists, I dont mind them running the rule over the basic plan.

However- I happen to think it is a very clever and unprecedented plan, and would not be really too happy to give the finer details of it away in a hurry. Basically, I will be approaching a particular sector of the construction industry and attempting to sell them a recycling deal which actually makes them money, instead of costing them money. I will be blending tax law, recycling initiatives and pre-existing construction practices to make this plan feasible to all concerned. Basically, everybody makes money and cuts their costs on their waste management bills. Thats the deal.

How do I keep them happy and keep the lid on my business plan? Thats an issue. I dont want to walk in there with all this planning done and then basically give the game away to someone who might repeat it to a cousin, brother, sister etc.

Once again, thanks for your time and help, you have all been most encouraging.:)

Fionn101

IT Loser : can you check your Pm's please