Wolf Dogs?

Crann na Beatha

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lrushe

I've seen many supposed wolf dogs but I always take those claims with a pitch of salt. IMO I'd say the real deal is v.rare.

YOURFACE!

Ive seen a couple advertised as well but I doubt they are real. I think it was here that I read it that you need a wild life license to keep one? (perhaps someone could confirm?)

Morganna

The only way to verify the wolf part is to have them dna tested

hunterwelly

Don't know if they'd even be legal here. Certainly not a pet choice to be taken lightly anyway.

If you like the "wolfishness" aspect, you might be better off going with something like an Alaskan Malamute.

peasant

Terminolgy:

Wolfdog:
Czechoslovakian Wolfdog
Saarlooswolfhond

I'm not aware of one of either in Ireland


Wolf hybrid:
= a dog with a real wolf in its parentage.
To my knowledge you need a license to keep them (and you don't want to keep one in the first place ...do a search here for EGAR's hybrid and you'll know why)

Morganna

peasant wrote: »

Terminolgy:

Wolfdog:
Czechoslovakian Wolfdog
Saarlooswolfhond

I'm not aware of one of either in Ireland


Wolf hybrid:
= a dog with a real wolf in its parentage.
To my knowledge you need a license to keep them (and you don't want to keep one in the first place ...do a search here for EGAR's hybrid and you'll know why)

Well said Peasant

TheMilkyPirate

peasant wrote: »

Terminolgy:

Wolfdog:
Czechoslovakian Wolfdog
Saarlooswolfhond

I'm not aware of one of either in Ireland


Wolf hybrid:
= a dog with a real wolf in its parentage.
To my knowledge you need a license to keep them (and you don't want to keep one in the first place ...do a search here for EGAR's hybrid and you'll know why)

I own a wolf hybrid, Cross between a japanese akita and a wolf beautiful dog and very friendly.

Satyr_The_Great

baraca wrote: »

I own a wolf hybrid, Cross between a japanese akita and a wolf beautiful dog and very friendly.

A mate of mine was looking for a wolf / german shepard, pref a sable shepard.
I loves wolves. Would love to see your baraca.

lightening

I love hyenas.

Discodog

I will be the first to ask the obvious question. Why are you asking OP ?. Anyone who has spend any time with Chieftain (at EGAR) would know why hybrids are wrong.

monty_python

peasant wrote: »

Terminolgy:

Wolfdog:
Czechoslovakian Wolfdog
Saarlooswolfhond

I'm not aware of one of either in Ireland


Wolf hybrid:
= a dog with a real wolf in its parentage.
To my knowledge you need a license to keep them (and you don't want to keep one in the first place ...do a search here for EGAR's hybrid and you'll know why)

a license is needed for all dogs, not just a wolf dog,
apart from a dog license, no other animal needs to be licensed in RoI.

Crann na Beatha

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boardbrowser

I'm not a fan of wolf hybrid ownership. too many people owning for the wrong reasons i.e trophy .their temprement very much depends on their lineage ( dog/ pure wolf hybrid or 2nd/ 3rd generation hybrid). do your homework. most owners want them as pets and certainly a high percentage wolf hybrid is anything but. Think spooky/ reactive/ hard to socialise/ great escape artists/ very vocal.not a house pet.
For more detailed info there is a book by Nicole wilde a noted trainer in the states who has written a book on the subject of wolf dogs/hybrids . That would be a good start before deciding if this is the right choice for you.
A good friend of mine owns a high content wolf dog and he has been such a challenge from the begining. Maybe a husky/ alaskan malamute would be more suitable.Is this a 1st dog for you?

Discodog

Most "Wolf Dogs" advertised have very little Wolf but the breeders know that including the word Wolf will increase their appeal to idiots. If no one replied to the ads these dogs would no longer be bred & the world would be a happier place.

As for a choice for a first dog I would suggest that anyone who would consider a "Wolf Dog" should avoid dogs altogether.

messygirl

I know someone who has a wolf hybrid, opposite of everything above. They socialised her for weeks, carrying it everywheer and exposing it to everything, were home with her all day every day and had it in training classes. She is the most beautiful dog, friendly, quiet, house dog and not a hyper one. she will bark if anyone approaches but once she knows you is as sweet and mild as our golden, sheds a lot though! Basically point being they are as vicious as any other dog but with proper scialisation and training and boundaries, and in the hands of a capable, loving, consistent dog owner can be a GREAT pet!

peasant

messygirl wrote: »

I know someone who has a wolf hybrid, opposite of everything above. They socialised her for weeks, carrying it everywheer and exposing it to everything, were home with her all day every day and had it in training classes. She is the most beautiful dog, friendly, quiet, house dog and not a hyper one. she will bark if anyone approaches but once she knows you is as sweet and mild as our golden, sheds a lot though!

contents: 100% dog

Discodog

Lets be fair 95% dog maximum of 5% Wolf. There are lots of deluded idiots who think that they own a Hybrid. It is a very lucrative delusion.

Thinking about it we all own Wolf Hybrids.

Messygirl appears to be a dog lover. Makes one wonder why a dog lover would be encouraging people to buy hybrids ?.

Dr. Loon

Discodog wrote: »

Thinking about it we all own Wolf Hybrids.

Was just thinking about that. All dogs are descended from Wolves. I can't imagine there are many proper hybrids. A wolf would quite likely eat you. Vicious things. It'd have to be at least 3 or 4 generations away from real wolves, and even still it wouldn't be as easy to train as a normal dog.

Discodog

The one that I know is a 50:50. He is "OK" with his owner, who has a huge amount of experience, but even she has to be very careful when he has food. He won't even come indoors & will always sleep in the open. He is an unfortunate totally mixed up animal & I feel very sorry for him.

He should be with a Wolf pack but he would not be accepted so he has to live a solitary existence that it against his nature. He is too aggressive to live with other dogs & does not want to be with humans.

Some idiot thought that it was a fun idea to produce him. I think that it was an act of genuine cruelty. Unfortunately whilst there are those that think owning a hybrid is cool, breeders will continue to supply them.

Could be amusing when wild animal licensing comes in & they all try to deny that they have hybrids.

Niamho!

this is weird, i was talking to someone about this on Thursday and then someone else on Friday.

Apparently theres a chap somewhere along the way to Wexford who advertises Wolf Pups. i don't know how genuine they are now or anything but apparently.....

peasant

Dr. Loon wrote: »

A wolf would quite likely eat you. Vicious things.

Common misconception. In relation to humans a wild wolf would be very shy and timid and try to avoid contact as much as possible.
A wolf hybrid would most likely try to do the same but given the close proximity to people and nowhere to run to, shyness can turn into defensive aggression.
It gets really dangerous then when you combine wolf timidity/defensive aggressiveness with doggy familiarity, especially so in hybrids who don't quite know what or who they are at any given time.

A wolf hybrid is potentially far more dangerous than a wild wolf

secman

The guy referred to in Wexford is located on the old road into Gorey, just a bit before Toss Byrnes pub. Very rough hand painted sign "Wolf Pups for Sale"

Secman

Maggie.23

I saw that sign years ago, he must be selling "wolf pups" a long time now. The young lads around where I was from (not far from Gorey) used to be dying for one - I heard one or two swearing their friends had "really cool" wolf-hybrids. Trying to tell my younger brother/his friends that they were probably not wolf-hybrids, and that they couldn't care for wolf-hybrids, was next to impossible.
I wonder will Twilight: New Moon, with the wolf pack and all, encourage the trend.

doctor evil

God I hope not! I can imagine emos with too much eye make up armed with a identity confused dog.

Wibbs

peasant wrote: »

Common misconception. In relation to humans a wild wolf would be very shy and timid and try to avoid contact as much as possible.
A wolf hybrid would most likely try to do the same but given the close proximity to people and nowhere to run to, shyness can turn into defensive aggression.
It gets really dangerous then when you combine wolf timidity/defensive aggressiveness with doggy familiarity, especially so in hybrids who don't quite know what or who they are at any given time.

A wolf hybrid is potentially far more dangerous than a wild wolf

+ 1000

Wolves and dogs are incredibly close genetically. To the degree they could almost and I mean almost be considered another breed. You would want seriously in depth genetic testing to distinguish the two contrary to popular belief.

Even external characteristics can vary a lot in the pure wolf population(hence the variability in canis lupus familiaris. Fido next door). Their coats can range in texture and colour, from pure white through mucky brown(even lab gold) to jet black. They're almost always black as pups though(camouflage esp in the underground den is one theory) . Ditto with eye colour. Except for blue. That's a dog thing. Again contrary to popular belief. Physically they have bigger heads, longer snouts, larger teeth and erect ears, usually with a neck ruff. Narrower in the body and lankier in the leg(though wild domestic dogs get that look after only one generation in the wild so it may well be an environmental thing). Dew claws are nearly always absent and they retain a scent gland in the base of the tail that's more prominent. The tail when relaxed hangs straight with no curl. That could describe a few dogs too. A mix of german shepard and husky with a side order of collie in the nose and you wouldn't be far wrong.

There are differences though. Major ones. The biggest difference between dogs and wolves is neoteny in the domesticated dog. Essentially they retain juvenile characteristics all their lives(not unlike humans actually). They retain many puppy behaviours. Playfulness, approachability, confidence(and aggression), relative ease of control etc.

Wolves don't. They grow up basically. Majorly different kettle of fish. They will only socialise with those they have grown up with too. The introduction of anyone other than juveniles will freak them right out. They are pack orientated. Very. The usual muppet who thinks he's(and its usually a he) the "pack leader" could get a rude awakening with a wolf. To outsiders they would be timid. Worst "macho" dogs ever ironically enough. Their default angle is "sod this, lets get the foook outa dodge". Good advice says the coward I am:D. They're more emotional and variable and intelligent, but not always in a good way and not in a human interaction way. Housetraining? Forget about it. People have tried and maybe one in 20 may actually take. Chase a ball or stick? Forget about it. They would look at you as if you were daft(and maybe we are:)). Kept indoors? Again massively variable, but the majority no. Sociability wise? with strangers no. With their pack yes, but that means they can't be left alone. The lone wolf myth is strong and while the dog left on its own for any length of time is a disgrace, a wolf alone is half the wolf and would be a tragedy and would be incredible cruelty. Mentally I would put them as more like cats kinda with a side order of dog. Very variable as individuals, twitchy, emotional and quite hard to pin down.

Their variability is what made them such good fits for us as a species. A mutual thing too. We could select the traits we both wanted and the human canine relationship of 100,000 years proved how good a trick that was for both of us. As an aside, my personal theory as to what gave us an edge over all other previous extinct humans is that we had Fido with us. It gave Fido an advantage too. Dogs are among the most common mammals on the planet. His wolf cousin by comparison is very rare.

That's wolves. Wolf dog crosses? OK if it's a low mix(which 99.99999% are). But aggression of the dog mixed with the mind of a wolf is often very bad news. Especially in the hands of someone who doesnt get that. For some reason the wolf "look" follows the wolf mind, so the more wolflike it looks the more likely you will have problems. Do you know the clear signals wolves give each other? The position of the body, ears, lips and tail? Do you know how to respond to that? Sadly too the "I want a wolf" mind is precisely the kind of mind that just won't get that. Too many hollywood movies methinks.

There are dogs that retain the wolf look(sarlouis (sp) and czech wolfdog that have the look and many of the traits but are more doglike. Seek one of those if you want that and in fairness I can understand that wnat too, but leave wolves to other wolves.

How do I know this guff? Long story, but basically personal experience with wolves up close through people who have dealt with them in rescue and scientific arenas and such.

Discodog

So the people that really know have given every possible reason as to why a Wolf Hybrid is a bad idea.

The sad thing is that in a few weeks another person will post regarding "Wolf Dogs".

Morganna

As i said in an ealier post the only way to tell if they are wolf hybrids is by dna testing Nearly all the wolf hybrids that are advertised are husky/malamute crosses with a gsd.DNA TEST .Anyone breeding wolf hybrids shoulsd be ashamed of them selves as dico dog says it is down right cruelty Well said Peasant ,disco dog and wibbs

Wibbs

Discodog wrote: »

So the people that really know have given every possible reason as to why a Wolf Hybrid is a bad idea.

Yep. Given a choice between being stuck in a room with a wolf or a high content hybrid, the joke is I'd go so far as to say the wolf would be preferable. More predictable and less aggressive for a start. As a pet? Neither. Hey if someone had a large lump of woodland, builds a 4 metre fence, gets the licencing, learns how wolves operate and has access to prey carcasses, then go mad.

The sad thing is that in a few weeks another idiot will post regarding "Wolf Dogs".

True. Its a pity a more concerted effort isn't made to breed a dog that has that look without the attendant hassle and danger. Clearly the market is there and if such a breed was available it would cut down on the silliness?

peasant

Wibbs wrote: »

True. Its a pity a more concerted effort isn't made to breed a dog that has that look without the attendant hassle and danger. Clearly the market is there and if such a breed was available it would cut down on the silliness?

Nope ..the silliness just takes a different shape.

Take the American Innuit and Utonagan "breeds" for example. Somebody threw a few Huskies, GSD's and some more "northern" breeds together and accidentally ended up with a very wolfy looking dog (and it has to be said, they are stunning).

Now the other silliness starts again ...line breeding, inbreeding to solidify the appearance. Internal wars between different breeders, splits into two separate "breeds". The race for official breed recognition. The registration with "kennel clubs" that aren't real ...the usual shebang.

All just to sell dogs and make money.



If only people would just get a dog and not a status symbol ....

ISDW

Wibbs wrote: »

True. Its a pity a more concerted effort isn't made to breed a dog that has that look without the attendant hassle and danger. Clearly the market is there and if such a breed was available it would cut down on the silliness?

There are Northern Inuits, and there is a reputable breeder in Ireland, doing health checks etc. Unfortunately the breed still isn't recognised by any kennel club, but maybe one day that will change. I've met a few NIs now, and they're lovely dogs. Definitely have the wolf look, but not the traits. In fact, they're 'easier' than siberian huskies, as the ones I've met can be let off lead and have great recall.

lightening

ISDW wrote: »

Unfortunately the breed still isn't recognised by any kennel club

Is that not a good thing?

ISDW

lightening wrote: »

Is that not a good thing?

:DDepends on your point of view I guess. But I know that people that breed them responsibly are always up against advocates of other breeds, because its not a KC recognised breed.

I know there has been much debate through the years about the Northern Inuits, but having now met a few, and seen some of them working in harness, they're lovely dogs and fit for purpose.

Discodog

Considering the actions of both the UK & Irish kennel clubs to date regarding new breeds & breed standards, any good breeder of NI's is better staying away.

It is amazing how consumer rights include a phrase "fit for purpose" but Dog Breeders feel that this does not apply to them. The Kennel Club should publish a list of approved breeders & guarantee the dogs that are bought from them. There is enough profit being made to pay for this.

But with so many dogs being destroyed lets have a campaign & incentives for people to take rescues for example no license fee.

Morganna

Look at tamaskans they too have the wolfy look

Wibbs

ISDW wrote: »

There are Northern Inuits, and there is a reputable breeder in Ireland, doing health checks etc. Unfortunately the breed still isn't recognised by any kennel club, but maybe one day that will change. I've met a few NIs now, and they're lovely dogs. Definitely have the wolf look, but not the traits. In fact, they're 'easier' than siberian huskies, as the ones I've met can be let off lead and have great recall.

They look very similar to the "wolf look" that people want alright. I'm impressed that they dont seem to have the traits too. As I said in the last post the wolf "nature" tends to follow the wolf look. With hybrids anyway.

I can see the attraction. That wild vibe that people feel they need in their lives. The notion of what a wolf is. The ultimate wild thing. It's very strong in us. Not always for the f**kwit macho thing either. Having dealt with them up close there is a spark of recognition. They're variable and strong and weak and affectionate and surprisingly dopey But you could say the same of dogs too. Why not they are the same but for small diffs. TBH I would even go so far as to say I would love if it a wolf could live with people and thrive in that environment. If they were a recognised "breed" even. It would mean more and more of them would live and survive outside the wild. In a way its a pity they can't. But they can't. Indeed mixing them with dogs dilutes them even more. That they don't need. Their very wildness should stop us from taming them. Hippie though that may sound.

The joke is that the little King Charles Spaniel in your living room is a wolf already. He and his ancestors just fitted in with us more. One researcher even crossed a wolf with a small french poodle and in one generation they were well clued into us.

So I would say cherish and look after the wolf that greets you with his lopsided grin when you need him most. The one that chews your furniture and pees on your newly laid wood floor. And look after him or her when he or she needs you most. And leave the wild fella alone. He's there to remind us of where we both came from. Lose him as "pet" and you reduce us both a little.

Discodog

Are you sure that you are not Shaun Ellis in disguise

Crann na Beatha

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Discodog

There have been so many threads on this subject. A simple search would reveal much of the info that has been posted here. It must be clear to anyone that Wolf Hybrids are a very bad idea. I would be the last to ever suggest any form of censorship but the sad fact is that some people may be encouraged to consider getting such a dog by reading some posts.

A search would also of revealed that this can be an emotive subject especially as a couple of us have actually met/worked with Wolf hybrids. Every time that this subject comes up someone will post that they know of a nice cuddle hybrid that is just like a dog.

Honey-ec

Iolar wrote: »

I resent been called an idiot,such a nice forum this place is,you ask a simple question and your batterd by petty insults

No-one called you specifically an idiot and I failed to see any "petty insults". You were given a very comprehensive rundown on why wolf hybrids should not be considered as pets and because it wasn't the answer you wanted, you've gone on the defensive.

As Discodog stated above, this is a hugely emotive issue for people who genuinely care about dogs, made worse by the number of posters who come on this forum posting about wanting a "Wolf", are given all the same information as you were and because it's not telling them what they want to hear, go "Well fcuk you all, I'm getting one anyway".

It just makes me wonder why people bother asking for advice if they're just going to ignore it anyway.

Crann na Beatha

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