The teachers strike

Bigdeadlydave

Personally I think it is a load of rubbish, and will have no positive outcome whatsoever and all it will do is to disrupt our education. The threat of further strikes also loom on the horizon.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE5AC2WS20091113
What are your opinions?

implausible

Why on earth is it suddenly being called a teachers' strike?! Public service employees are going on strike:rolleyes:

Burswood

I personally think we should have a public sector vs private sector Fifa 10 tournament.

It would sort out everything

No using Ronaldo though.

jumpguy

I know it's the Leaving Cert...but I'm happy for the day off tbh.

irish-anabel

I'm delighted! Right in the middle of the Xmas exams.

Lawliet

jumpguy wrote: »

I know it's the Leaving Cert...but I'm happy for the day off tbh.

Yeah I could use a mid-week lie in

tanora78

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laura93

jumpguy wrote: »

I know it's the Leaving Cert...but I'm happy for the day off tbh.

Same :P A day off during the week always makes the week seem shorter. Next week should be grand then, since I've a half day Friday, and going to a play in the morning time

rainbowtrout

andyrew120 wrote: »

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And if the maintenance and admin staff in your school are in public sector unions they will also be on strike. So they won't be opening the school. They probably wouldn't pass the picket line anyway. Eg. the secretary in my school is a member of IMPACT so she won't be going to work, and she wouldn't be passing our picket.

mahamageehad

Ye should be happy for a day off!!! I'm sure you've plenty of studying to be doing on that day if you're that worried about your education!!!

tanora78

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Delphi91

Anyone else think that the public sector workers are overreacting a bit? No jobs will be lost, it is just going to be a pay cut.

Would you like to make that argument to the 3 teachers in my school who were not brought back this September because of changes in the pupil-teacher ratio?

What about the workers in the HSE, etc who have gone on maternity leave, leave of absence, etc and returned to find that their jobs were gone?

...The public sector so far through the recession has had very little impact on it, where the private sector has been torn to shreds.

The budget in my school has been cut by almost 30% this year. We've had teaching posts which were allocated to us because we are a DEIS school removed from us (even though we're still entitled to them) with no hope of having them returned.

We've had applications for special needs resources for students turned down, even though the students were entitled to them.

The public sector workers should be glad they have jobs...

See first comment.

Also, Irish Teachers are the highest paid teachers in Europe, just trowing that in there.

Please provide a reference for this statement.

tanora78

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Terri26

andyrew120 wrote: »

Yes teachers may be removed from some schools because of a needed change in ratio, but these teachers are moved to other schools where new teachers are needed. It is the policy of the department of education and near all public service sectors to not dismiss people, but to give them a new role within the sector or move them to a new location


Not true at all. Only teachers in a permanent job would be allocated new schools. considering the majority of new teachers don't get this until their C.I.D YEAR (their 5th year working in the same school not teaching altogether) a lot of teachers found themselves jobless. we lost two teachers only one of whom has just picked up sub work. most of teh newer staff had tehir hours cut so we are making about 20% less than we did last year if not more. please don't make assertions like the above without knowing the full facts. the education system lost out loads and we do not want to lose anymore

DancingQueen:)

I happy for they day off but it's come at the worst time - during the christmas tests so now all of my tests are squeezed into 4 days

tanora78

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gaeilgebeo

andyrew120 wrote: »

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Seriously, what planet are you on? Where exactly are you getting these "facts" from? Your aunt and a superviser????

Do you realise how many teachers have lost their jobs in both primary and secondary schools? They do not simply get moved to another school!!!
You also say that the government has supported our salaries and we haven't been affected by the recession?!?! Teachers have taken the equivelent of a 10% paycut since the last budget between pensions and "levies".
I am teaching 6 years and certainly am not earning €52 per hour as you've also stated.
You seriously need to review your comments and what you deem to be "facts" about teachers.
May I also point out that the strike is also to do with cutbacks in education as opposed to just salaries!

tanora78

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highlydebased

Dont forget teachers have families too, some with many young children, bills to pay etc, it is difficult for some who don't deserve a paycut! Goes for any profession really though I guess.

rainbowtrout

andyrew120 wrote: »

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your school would be the exception rather than the rule though. those retirements probably took the place of teachers losing their jobs. three teachers lost their jobs in my school and the remaining part time staff have all had a reduction in hours. there were 4 fifth years maths and irish classes last year, this year there are 3 classes of each in leaving cert. we had to scrap transition year. Class sizes in all the core subjects are at 30 or close to it. Count yourself lucky

And how do you know that the remaining teachers did not have a cut in hours? have you seen all their timetables? Just because they are still in the school doesn't mean they are on full hours.

have a look at the excel file on the dept website which shows the reduction in teacher numbers in almost every school in the country.

tanora78

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spurious

That's not how the PTR works. It's not about how many pupils are in a class, it's about how many teachers or teacher equivalents a school can hire on their enrolled numbers (from the previous year).

We lost six staff last year (plus three from retirements who were not replaced) and a number of teachers are down to between 3 and 7 hours a week.

jumpguy

At the end of the day, the paycut teachers are getting is nothing compared to what others in the private sector are getting. Their also going on about how they were promised a pay rise. People in my family who only started working recently never got pay increases they were promised. Infact, I don't know if anyone has...

The country is ruined, your employer is strapped for cash, and simple economics means you have to get a pay cut. Otherwise we'll be in debt forever.

fkt

Couldn't have picked a better day I'm very busy on Tuesday night.

Slugs

In relation to the entire cutback bs, all I've to say is thank **** I'm in LC. The face of Irish education is about to undergo a huge change, which from the current outset, is for the worst.

I think what's ridiculous about the whole thing is that public servants are undergoing a paycut and are expected to bring (my guess) 8million in the next two years through their paycut. Where as how much are the bankers bringing in? O.o

irish_ninja

Have to say that im going to love my free day.
I think that the teachers pay isn't that over the top. Bit I think that they should not get paid extra for marking exam papers.It should be in their contract.

Delphi91

andyrew120 wrote: »

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Totally untrue. The teachers who were let go in my school, were let go, NOT transfered. Only teachers who are permanent members of staff can be re-deployed. Teachers who do not have CID contracts can be let go without any hope of a job.

...What was meant from my comment is that there pay had not been affected...

Hmm, then how come when the income levy was introduced, I had a 16% drop in pay?

...Just to back up my point about them being the highest paid in Europe
- The Sunday Business Post

There's a big difference between "Irish Teachers are the highest paid teachers in Europe" and "Those on the Irish public payroll are now among the highest paid in Europe, whether politicians, teachers or health workers."

IMO cutbacks in education will not be a problem as long as schools budget correctly

Oh dear god!

As for retiring teachers - I am aware of a school where 5 teachers retired, all of whom were Assistant Principals (Yearheads in this case) and due to a moratorium on promotions, these posts cannot be filled. So, picture your school, with a yearhead for each year, and then take them all away. Imagine the chaos that would ensue!

You say that you are in small classes for DCG and Applied Maths. Have a look at what it costs in terms of resources to run those classes. To allow us to retain our class sizes, given the fall in our teacher number, we've had to cut back the number of classes we had from 19 to 15. This has meant increased class sizes and a reduction in a number of subjects being offered.

clartharlear

This is not advertising, but, for concerned LC students, I would like to note that the private grind schools will be preparing to open all day for supervised study sessions on the day of the strike.

Aoifums

I'm staying out of the debate, but I'm so happy to have a day off mid week

randylonghorn

andyrew120 wrote: »

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0_o

Are you sure ...
... she understood the question?
... you understood her answer?

andyrew120 wrote: »

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The government has tacitly encouraged the media to go to town on the public sector, to divert anger from the f***-up they and their golf buddies the bankers and the developers have left us with.

And btw, all of the public sector (well, apart from the very top, e.g. the politicians themselves) got a very solid pay cut already through something they euphemistically called the "pension levy". No, it didn't mean public sector employees pay in more now to get a better pension later, as lots of people still seem to think (probably what they were supposed to think!) It was just a pay-cut with a fancy name!

Which is not to say that there is no room for reform in the public sector, but a broad spectrum slash and burn policy will do far more harm than good.

andyrew120 wrote: »

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And you have my genuine sympathy and understanding on that, I have family and close friends sitting scratching their sit-upons and wondering what the hell happened!

andyrew120 wrote: »

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I'm sorry dude, I actually believe you believe that, but ... !

andyrew120 wrote: »

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Did it compare against the cost of living in the individual countries? ... because that's the only way a sensible comparison can be made.

And yes, I know our cost of living is coming down now, but it has been phenomenally high over the last few years. And lots of young public servants are saddled with houses to pay off at the prices of a few years ago, though they are worth only 50-60% of that now ... if they could actually be sold. They, like their counterparts in the private sector, and those who have lost their jobs entirely, are the ones to feel sorry for ... I don't have much sympathy myself for those far enough up the scales to be well able to take a hit ... but very often they are the ones who will be hit lightest, esp. in the civil service.

andyrew120 wrote: »

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Look at that sentence again, and think about it.

Lots of things have been thrown around in the media over the last few YEARS, many of which have directly contradicted each other.

Do you really think everything the media says is plain unbiased unvarnished truth?

The media is mainly about spinning the facts to get the story. As Mark Twain would say, there are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Approach what you read in the papers / hear on the tv critically. Watch for the angle.

I am not trying to say teachers and public sector workers "deserve" a paycut, i am just laying down the facts as I see them.

And I do agree that the public service will have to take another hit this time. I think everyone knows it, and if it was seen to be targetted as fairly as humanly possible I think most would accept it ... not with joy, but with resignation.

It's when you see banks which are bleeding from every seam still awarding bonuses to "high-fliers" ... and TDs and Ministers and top civil servants refusing to take pay-cuts themselves ... and developers saluting the NAMA train which we, the taxpayers, will be forking out for for a very long time ...

... well, if you were a young teacher or nurse or guard with a couple of kids and a fortune in debt around their necks, how would you feel?

Yes, those who have jobs know they're lucky to have them. That's not the full story though, and it shouldn't be.

andyrew120 wrote: »

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Well, it hasn't been stretched for cash to pay armies of middle and senior management to ... not manage it. But I don't especially want to see doctors and nurses and the real health service see staff cut-backs either, we can't as a country afford that, any more than we can afford to see schools losing teachers, and especially those needed to support the most vulnerable and disadvantaged pupils.

jumpguy wrote: »

At the end of the day, the paycut teachers are getting is nothing compared to what others in the private sector are getting.

See above.

Let me be clear ... I'm not saying "the poor, poor public service!". I don't believe that. I am saying that there is a need for our politicians to lead by example, not just by soundbites. I am saying there is a need for the banks to wise up and take real measures to demonstrate that they are engaging in reform, especially at the senior levels who are at least jointly responsible for the current mess. I am saying that our government needs to stop bending over backwards to ensure that their cronies at the top of the building industry who have poured money into FF over the years are as immune as possible from the pain.

A sense that real problems are being tackled fairly would do much to sweeten the bitter pill.

And yes, the top brass of the public service unions often strike me as living in unreality too. But it's not just the PS unions is it? ... anyone remember the electricians' union who went on strike for a pay rise when their colleagues, both electricians and in the building industry generally, were losing their jobs by the hundred?

kilkern5

Reading through this thread from 2009 and it looks like it could have been written in 2013

Teachers threating strike action again. Telling us how tough the job is. How no one understands the pressures.
I work in the education sector and silently laugh to myself when they start talking about how difficult and stressful the job is.
Every year at P/T meetings when they have to stay late they are in the staff room the next day "exhausted" because they did not get home till after 5pm. 5PM!!!!!
We have just had 2 weeks off at Easter and 4 weeks later my school is off again for a full week for mid term, one teacher in the yard said to me how she cant believe its still a whole week to go befor the next break. HONESTLY! Then its only 7 weeks till the summer break when there is 9 weeks off!!!!
The first thing to be sorted at the first staff meeting every September is how to work the 183 classroom days to maximise the hollidays around bank holidays.
I love my job. I work with fantastic teachers, principals and SNAs but seriously........they need to have a reality check!!!!
Getting paid to do yard duty!!!
Getting paid to hold various posts!!!
Truly mad stuff going on!!