Fr. Sean McKenna

Deise Tom

Basically the same story below. Do people think that a 500 year rule that Priest be single men should be abolished. Surely the church would be best served by committed men, not loosing them because of some man made rule.

http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=102731

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/bishop-lsquoflooredrsquo-by-sudden-departure-of-a-priest-in-love-14564662.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8362046.stm

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Bishop-floored-by-priests-revelation.5829787.jp

http://u.tv/News/Derry-priest-quits-for-relationship-/eef3393f-1706-4585-884a-3d8ee66b407d

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1117/1224258982788.html

spurs63

Does he believe in catholic doctrine? Sex out of wedlock - I don't think so.

Does he believe in the sanctity of marriage? I don't think so

Does he believe in the vows he made becoming a catholic priest? I don't think so

Does he think about the children of the woman with whom he is having a relationship (whose name was in todays papers) and the affect it will have on them, both at home and school

BrianCalgary

spurs63 wrote: »

Does he believe in catholic doctrine? Sex out of wedlock - I don't think so.

I would say so and that is why he is leaving. He screwed up and sinned and now he is moving on to a new life that maybe God wants him in. We dont know the circumstances.

spurs63 wrote: »

Does he believe in the sanctity of marriage? I don't think so

Maybe he does and hence his leaving the priesthood to possibly marry the woman.

spurs63 wrote: »

Does he believe in the vows he made becoming a catholic priest? I don't think so

I would say so and he realises that he can no longer keep them and will find another way to serve God.

spurs63 wrote: »

Does he think about the children of the woman with whom he is having a relationship (whose name was in todays papers) and the affect it will have on them, both at home and school

Probably and now it is open without any attempts at hiding the truth. The circumstances may well have been worse had they been found out covering up.

kelly1

BrianCalgary wrote: »

I would say so and that is why he is leaving. He screwed up and sinned and now he is moving on to a new life that maybe God wants him in. We dont know the circumstances.

Brian, isn't he having a relationship with a married but separated woman, which of course is adultery...

I hope I have my facts correct about this.

Deise Tom

kelly1 wrote: »

Brian, isn't he having a relationship with a married but separated woman, which of course is adultery...

I hope I have my facts correct about this.

I cant see the big problem myself.

Does it not say someplace in the bible that what God joins no one should tear apart. If two people meet and have a realationship including a priest be it with a woman (married, single, seperated or divorced) or a man so be it.

BrianCalgary

kelly1 wrote: »

Brian, isn't he having a relationship with a married but separated woman, which of course is adultery...

I hope I have my facts correct about this.

Absolutely Kelly, but he is a sinner like the rest of us and is now in the process of setting things right. Part of that process is leaving the priesthood.

BrianCalgary

Deise Tom wrote: »

I cant see the big problem myself.

Does it not say someplace in the bible that what God joins no one should tear apart. If two people meet and have a realationship including a priest be it with a woman (married, single, seperated or divorced) or a man so be it.

Sorry Tom, sex ouside of marriage is a sin. Sex with someone of teh same gender is a sin. So it can not fall into the category of 'so be it'.

In having said that, we all sin and we all have to suffer the consequences yet at the same time make the attempt, with teh help of God, to get back on the right road.

kelly1

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Absolutely Kelly, but he is a sinner like the rest of us and is now in the process of setting things right. Part of that process is leaving the priesthood.

OK, if he left the priesthood to get married that would be fine, but he's not. If he has sex with his new partner, it's adultery. You can't persist in sin and expect forgiveness.

IrishAmity

Perhaps looking at this realistically, Fr. McKenna had a huge decision to make, either hold onto his 25 year old Vocation or leave the confines of Priesthood, Ballymagroarty and perhaps Derry now sadly in favour of nothing more than 'falling in love'

The man was honest to himself, to his heart and mind and to his fellow people of the Holy Family Parish, Ballymagroarty. He even appeared a man with things on his mind of recent times and now we all know what, that tear jerking announcement he made last Saturday night at Mass.

Not only himself now departing the Holy Family Parish, but around one year previous Curate, Fr. Kieran Page also found love out of his Vocation and was also honest and left with nothing but respect and admiration such as the circumstances of Fr. Sean McKenna.

People are now questioning celibacy in the Catholic Church and trying to understand what purpose it ideally serves? Fair question indeed but I personally believe we in this life time won't see a change to that way of living. We also have the comments from the Anglican Church about their clergy marrying and still carrying out their duties normally, and why doesn't the Catholic Church adopt this stance and way of thinking? Again another good question but one that is beyond us all for now.

We now have to endure the likes of the show bizzing Fr. Brian D'arcy harp on about this out of use 'Way Of Life' in relation to celibacy, and this begs the question? If he for one has/had so much to say on the topic and it's disadvantages, why then did he make his Profession to the Passionist Community? This coming from a man that isn't even recognised by 'Main Stream' Catholic peoples.

At the end of the day, whatever the circumstances, outcome, and ramifications the sheer fact is that this matter was the private life of Fr. Sean McKenna and perhaps should have ideally stayed that way.

More power to the credentials of the man for taking and the facing his unfortunately exposed situation on head first and with much courage.

I wish Fr. Sean McKenna well in the future together with his new 'Found Love'

BrianCalgary

kelly1 wrote: »

OK, if he left the priesthood to get married that would be fine, but he's not. If he has sex with his new partner, it's adultery. You can't persist in sin and expect forgiveness.

Maybe there is an impending marriage announcement. In which case all is good.

If there is no marriage and they shack-up it would be disappointing and up to God then to judge their eternal destiny.

Deise Tom

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Sorry Tom, sex ouside of marriage is a sin. Sex with someone of teh same gender is a sin. So it can not fall into the category of 'so be it'.

In having said that, we all sin and we all have to suffer the consequences yet at the same time make the attempt, with teh help of God, to get back on the right road.

Sex outside of Marriage has been happening with years and anyone that says otherwise is a liar, including those old women that sit in the front seats of the churchs and had sex and even children with the priests.

Deise Tom

IrishAmity wrote: »

Perhaps looking at this realistically, Fr. McKenna had a huge decision to make, either hold onto his 25 year old Vocation or leave the confines of Priesthood, Ballymagroarty and perhaps Derry now sadly in favour of nothing more than 'falling in love'

The man was honest to himself, to his heart and mind and to his fellow people of the Holy Family Parish, Ballymagroarty. He even appeared a man with things on his mind of recent times and now we all know what, that tear jerking announcement he made last Saturday night at Mass.

Not only himself now departing the Holy Family Parish, but around one year previous Curate, Fr. Kieran Page also found love out of his Vocation and was also honest and left with nothing but respect and admiration such as the circumstances of Fr. Sean McKenna.

People are now questioning celibacy in the Catholic Church and trying to understand what purpose it ideally serves? Fair question indeed but I personally believe we in this life time won't see a change to that way of living. We also have the comments from the Anglican Church about their clergy marrying and still carrying out their duties normally, and why doesn't the Catholic Church adopt this stance and way of thinking? Again another good question but one that is beyond us all for now.

We now have to endure the likes of the show bizzing Fr. Brian D'arcy harp on about this out of use 'Way Of Life' in relation to celibacy, and this begs the question? If he for one has/had so much to say on the topic and it's disadvantages, why then did he make his Profession to the Passionist Community? This coming from a man that isn't even recognised by 'Main Stream' Catholic peoples.

At the end of the day, whatever the circumstances, outcome, and ramifications the sheer fact is that this matter was the private life of Fr. Sean McKenna and perhaps should have ideally stayed that way.

More power to the credentials of the man for taking and the facing his unfortunately exposed situation on head first and with much courage.

I wish Fr. Sean McKenna well in the future together with his new 'Found Love'

Well said. So what if Sean McKenna was or is having sex. Maybe if the Catholic Church allowed its members to do so freely, then maybe more people would be going inside its doors and there would not be a vovation crises, as i am sure many of those priests that leave each year would stay if they were allowed to live their lives with a companion and maybe a family of their own.

Everyone said that Eamon Casey and Michael Cleary were good clerics, but once it became public knowledge that they had fathered children they were the scum of the earth in the eyes of some.

Celibecy is a man made rule that is no older than 5 or 6 hundred years old. Maybe now is the time to do away with it, before other good clerics, which i am sure Sean mcKenna was/is will have left active ministry within the church, all for the one reason, falling in love.

BrianCalgary

Deise Tom wrote: »

Sex outside of Marriage has been happening with years and anyone that says otherwise is a liar, including those old women that sit in the front seats of the churchs and had sex and even children with the priests.

I neve said it doesn't happen, only that it is a sin and therefore is wrong.

crosstrainer1

spurs63 wrote: »

Does he believe in catholic doctrine? Sex out of wedlock - I don't think so.

Does he believe in the sanctity of marriage? I don't think so

Does he believe in the vows he made becoming a catholic priest? I don't think so

Does he think about the children of the woman with whom he is having a relationship (whose name was in todays papers) and the affect it will have on them, both at home and school

The catholic church has distroyed more lives on this island than it has saved. this man has nothing to be ashamed off he fell inlove and so did she so who cares what a 75 year old virgin who wears a dress in rome thinks

Deise Tom

BrianCalgary wrote: »

I neve said it doesn't happen, only that it is a sin and therefore is wrong.

I think there is worse things you could be doing.

Was there not a story in the bible where Jesus was some place one day and some men were getting onto some prostitute. I am sure some of them even had been with her and may have been putting on a show for Jesus, just like some people are doing today. If i am right, was his answer to them not "Let he that has not sinned cast the first stone". He did not come out and say she should not do what she was doing.

patmartino

Well done Sean.
Maybe he just realised the truth about religion.

kelly1

Deise Tom wrote: »

I think there is worse things you could be doing.

Was there not a story in the bible where Jesus was some place one day and some men were getting onto some prostitute. I am sure some of them even had been with her and may have been putting on a show for Jesus, just like some people are doing today. If i am right, was his answer to them not "Let he that has not sinned cast the first stone". He did not come out and say she should not do what she was doing.

Not quite. He asked her to abandon her sinful ways:

John 8:7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. 9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

11 Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more.

BrianCalgary

crosstrainer1 wrote: »

The catholic church has distroyed more lives on this island than it has saved. this man has nothing to be ashamed off he fell inlove and so did she so who cares what a 75 year old virgin who wears a dress in rome thinks

Thats quite the statement. Can you back it up?

kev9100

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Thats quite the statement. Can you back it up?

Well lets see, the magdelene laundries, countless cases of clerical child abuse and the church played a huge role in denying equal rights to many Irish people throughout the 20th century. While I accept that the Church has also done good, surely you can`t deny that it has also done great harm as well?

Fanny Cradock

patmartino wrote: »

Well done Sean.
Maybe he just realised the truth about religion.

I would advise you to be very careful.

Fanny Cradock

kev9100 wrote: »

Well lets see, the magdelene laundries, countless cases of clerical child abuse and the church played a huge role in denying equal rights to many Irish people throughout the 20th century. While I accept that the Church has also done good, surely you can`t deny that it has also done great harm as well?

Maybe I missed something, but has anyone here denied that the Church has been guilty of some horrendous crimes?

On one hand you say that the Church has done good - and I wonder if you have actually ever teased this belief out and asked yourself what - yet on the other hand it is guilty of great harm. It seems that you've set out your stall. However, I suggest it's a little lopsided.

Unless you can actually provide something other than value judgements on the great harm that you speak of, I would encourage you to exercise a little more diplomacy.

Xluna

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Thats quite the statement. Can you back it up?

Can you back up your faith in God with evidence?

Turtwig

Xluna wrote: »

Can you back up your faith in God with evidence?

That's quite the statement too,
Of course he can, it just might not be sufficient enough for you or me.

patmartino

Malty_T wrote: »

That's quite the statement too,
Of course he can, it just might not be sufficient enough for you or me.

it just might not be sufficient enough for the definition of evidence

Deise Tom

kev9100 wrote: »

Well lets see, the magdelene laundries, countless cases of clerical child abuse and the church played a huge role in denying equal rights to many Irish people throughout the 20th century. While I accept that the Church has also done good, surely you can`t deny that it has also done great harm as well?

A quick question for you. How many people that you have heard about that were abused by Priests, Brothers or Nuns were actually abused. I would say that there is some all right, but no where near the amout that you hear about in the press. I think the euro sign has a lot to do with the amount of allegations made. To me, it is wrong to accuse someone if they are not responsible, and if they can prove that they are inocent or found not guilty for what ever reason, that priest, brother or nun, be it a present one or a former one, should be allowed to sue the person or persons responsible for making the claims. I dont expect that many will agree with what i have just said, but i dont care. Its a personal opinion.

Fanny Cradock

patmartino wrote: »

it just might not be sufficient enough for the definition of evidence

OK, you and Xluna are now engaging in low-level trolling. I have the feeling that you are both making claims from complete ignorance. But if you are happy embracing the intellectually dishonesty required to deny that there is no evidence, or it doesn't fit the definition of evidence (whatever that actually means), then so be it. However, your tedious tomfoolery wont be tolerated on this forum.

In short, you either stick by the charter and remain on topic or you don't post here again.

Red Alert

Back to the topic: I think it's a crying shame that men (initially) are expected to give up a very large part of their psyche as a result of discovering and acting upon their religious vocation. Pretty much without exception I'd say every priest I've met is a potential loss to society as a husband and father. There are a large number of people who would have considered seeing if they had a vocation but for this rule, myself included.

There is another side to this as well. The religious orders offer a celibate community lifestyle of faith for those who wish to take up that journey, and they would be unaffected by the change to diocesan celibacy. In fact, joining an order may become attractive again if there was a clear demarcation between the sort of life an entrant there would have, compared to if they joined the diocesan seminary.

BrianCalgary

Xluna wrote: »

Can you back up your faith in God with evidence?

I can, but I doubt you'd listen anyway. Also it is not th etopic of this thread.

I just wish Fr. McKenna well in his journey and my prayer is that he finds another way to serve God and engage in active lay ministry wherever he goes.

Deise Tom

Red Alert wrote: »

Back to the topic: I think it's a crying shame that men (initially) are expected to give up a very large part of their psyche as a result of discovering and acting upon their religious vocation. Pretty much without exception I'd say every priest I've met is a potential loss to society as a husband and father. There are a large number of people who would have considered seeing if they had a vocation but for this rule, myself included.

There is another side to this as well. The religious orders offer a celibate community lifestyle of faith for those who wish to take up that journey, and they would be unaffected by the change to diocesan celibacy. In fact, joining an order may become attractive again if there was a clear demarcation between the sort of life an entrant there would have, compared to if they joined the diocesan seminary.

And of course, a person that becomes a Diocesian Priest always have the option of staying celibate if they so wish.

Deise Tom

BrianCalgary wrote: »

I can, but I doubt you'd listen anyway. Also it is not th etopic of this thread.

I just wish Fr. McKenna well in his journey and my prayer is that he finds another way to serve God and engage in active lay ministry wherever he goes.

The only pity is that he could not continue to serve God and the Church as an ordained priest and to be able to live with or marry the person he loves.

patmartino

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

OK, you and Xluna are now engaging in low-level trolling. I have the feeling that you are both making claims from complete ignorance. But if you are happy embracing the intellectually dishonesty required to deny that there is no evidence, or it doesn't fit the definition of evidence (whatever that actually means), then so be it. However, your tedious tomfoolery wont be tolerated on this forum.

I dislike that any disagreement with you or PDN results in the accusation of trolling. This is the definition of evidence.

ev⋅i⋅dence
  /ˈɛvɪdəns/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ev-i-duhns] Show IPA noun, verb, -denced, -denc⋅ing.

–noun
1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
3. Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.
–verb (used with object)
4. to make evident or clear; show clearly; manifest: He evidenced his approval by promising his full support.
5. to support by evidence: He evidenced his accusation with incriminating letters.
—Idiom
6. in evidence, plainly visible; conspicuous: The first signs of spring are in evidence.


Religion has no evidence.

BrianCalgary

patmartino wrote: »

Religion has no evidence.

Prove it.

patmartino

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Prove it.

You are the believers, it is up to you to prove.

BrianCalgary

patmartino wrote: »

You are the believers, it is up to you to prove.

There you go you make demands for proof, then come up with a statemnt that you have absolutely no evidence for???
or are unwilling to share that evidence. Love the double standard. :cool:

patmartino

BrianCalgary wrote: »

There you go you make demands for proof, then come up with a statemnt that you have absolutely no evidence for???
or are unwilling to share that evidence. Love the double standard. :cool:

There isn't a single shred of evidence to prove god exists

BrianCalgary

patmartino wrote: »

There isn't a single shred of evidence to prove god exists

Interesting you would make such a claim when there are billions of people around the world that would hold otherwise.

patmartino

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Interesting you would make such a claim when there are billions of people around the world that would hold otherwise.

Billions that believe in different gods and religions you mean.

BrianCalgary

patmartino wrote: »

Billions that believe in different gods and religions you mean.

6 billion or so on the planet.

4.2 B would adhere to Christianity, Islam or Hinduism, who all believe in a god.

2 B Christian, 1.3 B Muslim and 0.9 B Hindu.

Source: http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Theology-World-Religions.htm

There are other sources that show very similar numbers.

Over 2 thirds of the planet believe in god.

Yet you claim that there isn't one. Where do you get the idea that there isn't one?

PDN

Yet another thread locked because certain non-Christians can't be bothered abiding by the Forum Charter.