Strike-wording of ballot

implausible

I'm a TUI member and voted in the recent ballot. Imagine my surprise when I heard that my vote had been interpreted as 'I want to go on strike next week'. The ballot I filled in stated that if X, Y and Z happened (compulsory redundancies, paycuts or a change in conditions of service), then we would take industrial action, up to and including, strike action. None of these things have happened, wtf?

Can anyone from ASTI, INTO or even my own union enlighten me?

rainbowtrout

deemark wrote: »

I'm a TUI member and voted in the recent ballot. Imagine my surprise when I heard that my vote had been interpreted as 'I want to go on strike next week'. The ballot I filled in stated that if X, Y and Z happened (compulsory redundancies, paycuts or a change in conditions of service), then we would take industrial action, up to and including, strike action. None of these things have happened, wtf?

Can anyone from ASTI, INTO or even my own union enlighten me?

ya, i had a feeling strike was inevitable but i filled in the same ballot form as you 'up to and including strike action'. I want to know what happened to the 'up to' part. TUI as well.

smcgiff

From what I've heard one union in particular engaged in scaremongering regarding what the government are going to do in the budget. Seemed dishonest to me.

The last thing the "normal" unions needed was for the senior Civil Servants coming out on Strike. As far as I can see - Nobody has any pity on these guys taking a pay cut.

spurious

TUI here too and the talk in our staff room while wanting something done was very much against closing the schools. People feel a bit conned now to be honest. Had there been an option of 'up to but not including strike action' I think that would have been the one chosen.

Are the leadership of the unions complete idiots?

implausible

Well, I'm rep in my school and I'm mortified; I explained the ballot as it was worded and am now fielding some very angry questions. People are not up for picketing.

Can't find out what was on the ASTI one. You can't phrase a thing one way and then interpret it another way. People are not going to support something they feel they've been conned into. I know we can't sit back and take it but ffs:mad:

malpas

spurious wrote: »

TUI here too and the talk in our staff room while wanting something done was very much against closing the schools. People feel a bit conned now to be honest. Had there been an option of 'up to but not including strike action' I think that would have been the one chosen.

Are the leadership of the unions complete idiots?

unfortunately yes...a pointless exercise which will A) lose public support and annoy parents & non-teachers, especially vulnerable private sector workers who are convinced that teachers have a soft, secure and well-paid pensionable job not achieve its objective since the Government are not for turning. I think it would be a much smarter strategic move to protest on a weekend although I still doubt whether it would achieve very much.

rainbowtrout

deemark wrote: »

Well, I'm rep in my school and I'm mortified; I explained the ballot as it was worded and am now fielding some very angry questions. People are not up for picketing.

Can't find out what was on the ASTI one. You can't phrase a thing one way and then interpret it another way. People are not going to support something they feel they've been conned into. I know we can't sit back and take it but ffs:mad:

I'm the rep in my school too, I'm not fielding the angry questions but there's a lot of uncertainty about what is going to happen next tuesday. Are we picketing outside our school? Are we joining a protest in dublin? Do we stay away from the school for the day? There isn't much information out there.

We have both unions in my school, so I can probably find out what the ASTI ballot paper said.

RealJohn

I haven't spoken to a single teacher who wants to go on strike at this stage. I'm currently in the process of applying for membership of the TUI (purely because I don't want to have to pass the picket) but I'm very unhappy with the whole situation.

On a side note, I was sharing a house with a primary teacher last year and she showed me the letter the INTO sent her. I got the distinct impression that the INTO wanted its members to vote for a strike, rather than find out if its members wanted to strike.
Surely the unions are supposed to represent us, not push us in a particular direction?

Toto Wolfcastle

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'm the rep in my school too, I'm not fielding the angry questions but there's a lot of uncertainty about what is going to happen next tuesday. Are we picketing outside our school? Are we joining a protest in dublin? Do we stay away from the school for the day? There isn't much information out there.

I don't know what the wording of the ASTI ballot was as I really can't remember but the arrangements are on the ASTI website.

rainbowtrout

RealJohn wrote: »

Surely the unions are supposed to represent us, not push us in a particular direction?

That's how I would feel. I gave out the ballot papers, explained the situation, and told them make up their own minds. In the past we have had union reps tell us that 'we have to vote yes'. No we don't, a vote is supposed to be democratic. The day I am told what way I am to vote is the day I move to Zimbabwe. A vote is supposed to represent how people feel, not how they are told to feel.

ditchhurler

I am given to understand that the turnout for the TUI ballot was 70% - a good turnout in a General Election, but i am perplexed why it was so low in a ballot where the boxes are in the schools / colleges ( surely all staff are in every day in schools and ITs?) . Taking the turnout into account the actual % of members who voted yes is just over 50% and, reading these threads, it seems that even those who voted yes seem to have understood it was for action POST-budget - would be very interesting to see how the TUI respond to some investigative journalism in this regard.

brianthebard

spurious wrote: »

TUI here too and the talk in our staff room while wanting something done was very much against closing the schools. People feel a bit conned now to be honest. Had there been an option of 'up to but not including strike action' I think that would have been the one chosen.

Has there not been meetings and attempts at compromise in the past weeks and months already? The government has clearly stated they want cuts to happen and don't seem open to objections to their plans, so it would seem to me at least that the 'up to' section has been covered already?

RealJohn wrote: »

Surely the unions are supposed to represent us, not push us in a particular direction?

I'm sure no matter how it was phrased there was still a No option?

TheDriver

my ballot was by post hence why the turnout can be low, its different for TUI than INTO where they have a box. The one thing I would say is when i saw a ballot, I didn't even need to read it as we all knew a strike day had been planned and the same thing happened in March when we all voted for everything and then maybe a strike when a date had already been planned.
Regarding loosing public support, I don't think we have any and as much as I don't want to strike, I don't think its going to loose us any more support. But if I am going to loose a days pay, then the off licence will be visited Mon night and I am going to enjoy it!

Delphi91

ditchhurler wrote: »

I am given to understand that the turnout for the TUI ballot was 70% - a good turnout in a General Election, but i am perplexed why it was so low in a ballot where the boxes are in the schools / colleges...

ASTI vote was a postal ballot.

...( surely all staff are in every day in schools and ITs?)...

If only that were true!

RealJohn

brianthebard wrote: »

I'm sure no matter how it was phrased there was still a No option?

Like I said, I wasn't a member of the TUI at the time of the vote (but all going "well", I will be by the time of the strike) but if I had been, I would have voted no. This doesn't change the point that the other option was not "yes, I want to strike". The other option was a vote to allow a strike if certain conditions were to arise. Those conditions haven't arisen and yet we're still striking. This is my problem with the whole situation.

D4RK ONION

The teachers in the school I'm doing my home TP are not best pleased about it either. I get the day off though, so sorry if this sounds rude, and I'd be against it from a formal perspective but WHOOP! Seriously though, From what I've heard the unions and TC of the profession I'm about to go into don't sound like the best bunch!

Toto Wolfcastle

D4RK ONION wrote: »

The teachers in the school I'm doing my home TP are not best pleased about it either. I get the day off though, so sorry if this sounds rude, and I'd be against it from a formal perspective but WHOOP! Seriously though, From what I've heard the unions and TC of the profession I'm about to go into don't sound like the best bunch!

Are you not a student member of the INTO? Do the INTO do free student memberships? The day off will be nice for you. I'd imagine you must be wrecked.

D4RK ONION

Shattered. Nope, not a member of anything, I don't get paid for this sure! Didn't even know there was such a thing. Are you going to be picketing?

Toto Wolfcastle

D4RK ONION wrote: »

Shattered. Nope, not a member of anything, I don't get paid for this sure! Didn't even know there was such a thing. Are you going to be picketing?

It does seem that way, although I've been off with a bug for the last two days so I don't know what's happening for sure yet.

I was looking at the ASTI website and I was a bit surprised to see that picketing only lasts from 8.30 to 10.00. Is this what normally happens?

judas1369

I'm the TUI Rep in our school and the feeling is much the same as those expressed by the other Reps on this thread.
However on the main TUI website there is a guideline document posted up
http://www.tui.ie/Guidelines_and_information_for_strike_days/Default.1079.html
Hope this sheds a little light on the matter!

ytareh

http://www.asti.ie/news/campaigns/november-24th-strike/

says 830-10am for ASTI members

Up to 10pm for IT's holding night classes (Ouch!)

In my opinion

As far as I know INTO will be picketing outside any school which decides to try to open, ASTI and TUI will picket for 1 hour outside their schools. Its a withdrawl of labour hence if school is closed and nobody is going in no need to picket.

On an aside I am an INTO member and our branch voted over 90% to go out. The reason is that if we sit back and allow it to happen it will if we say no at least we will not have a coach and 4 driven through us.

Anyone critical of union should attend their union meeting and speak, staff room is not the INTO, ASTI or TUI meeting. I have been guilty of this in the past.

target5

All information re strike is on the INTO website. If you are joining primary teaching you are joining a great union Try getting invilved rather than listening to some teachers who may never attend meetings but moan in the staff room all day.

target5

Normally teachers don't go on strike.

implausible

In my opinion wrote: »

Anyone critical of union should attend their union meeting and speak, staff room is not the INTO, ASTI or TUI meeting. I have been guilty of this in the past.

Oh, I'll be there, with bells on. I have a fair bit to say about the way the union obtained its mandate.

That said, it's going ahead now and we may as well do our best to make our voices heard. If picketing at least reduces the reduction (keep up people!) in pay that's inevitable, we will have achieved something.

brianthebard

RealJohn wrote: »

Those conditions haven't arisen and yet we're still striking. This is my problem with the whole situation.

Out of interest, what exactly are these conditions and what has yet to be met? I haven't looked into the matter much yet, but my supervisor is striking next week and feels it is justified, perhaps for his own reasons as much as the unions official ones. I'm just curious.

implausible

brianthebard wrote: »

Out of interest, what exactly are these conditions and what has yet to be met? I haven't looked into the matter much yet, but my supervisor is striking next week and feels it is justified, perhaps for his own reasons as much as the unions official ones. I'm just curious.

Paycuts, change in our conditions of service and compulsory redundancies (TUI)

D4RK ONION

Thought ye might like to know, After Hours is talking about the strike now. So you know that's going to turn out well.

"Strike on a Saturday" is probably the most ridiculous suggestion of all time, ever (with regards striking :rolleyes:)