Theres still a shocking lack of "Motorway Ahead" signs

Chris_533976

I noticed this the other day coming up the M18. There is a "Motorway Ahead, 1.2km" sign, but nothing else until you hit the chopsticks signs. There is no big "Motorway ahead - No L drivers etc" sign nor is there a "Non-motorway traffic" sign on the terminal junction before the motorway begins. No wonder we get learners and tractors on the motorways when there are no explicit signs. Granted, people should know, but these signs should still be put up.

Its the same story on the M8 at Dunkettle. No "Motorway ahead, no L drivers" sign, just the M8 chopsticks.

jd

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Its the same story on the M8 at Dunkettle. No "Motorway ahead, no L drivers" sign, just the M8 chopsticks.

Same on M11

daymobrew

And same on the approach to the short stretch of M3 just west of the Clonee exit on the N3. There is a "Motorway Ahead 1.2km" sign after the on-ramp at Blanchardstown Centre, but no big sign about motorway rules. Maybe the rules are well known (or not enforced).

trad

You think that's bad, the M1, the first motorway in Ireland does not have any Motorway Ahead Signs when you join at Whitehall north bound since the Port Tunnel was built so it looks like you can cycle to Newry from there. Tractors and trailers are a regular sight on the M50 and that's in Dublin so you you should be well used to them in the country.

senordingdong

There's also a shocking lack of motorways full stop.

amacachi

trad wrote: »

You think that's bad, the M1, the first motorway in Ireland does not have any Motorway Ahead Signs when you join at Whitehall north bound since the Port Tunnel was built so it looks like you can cycle to Newry from there.

Even Sprucefield.

corktina

i think its covered by "ignorance of the law is no excuse" but having said that signage in this country is dreadful...you just cant rely on it at all, whereas "over the water" it is very consistant at all times in my experiance.

kippy

senordingdong wrote: »

There's also a shocking lack of motorways full stop.

Where else should be be motorways, that arent already in the planning or construction phase?

senordingdong

kippy wrote: »

Where else should be be motorways, that arent already in the planning or construction phase?

You want me to draw you map?

There's also a shocking lack of good motorways.

Zoney

In fairness, in the UK when the motorways started they evidently thought the signs spelling out the restrictions were necessary (despite the fact that drivers were presumably supposed to know them). These are the "motorway ahead" signs listed on the ROTR motorway signs page.

Now we have in theory had motorways since the Naas Bypass and M1, but really one could argue we haven't had a motorway *network* until the last couple of years, and particularly now with the completion of interurbans.

Notwithstanding the fact that motorists are supposed to know the rules of the road, I think that on the same principle as the original "No Pedestrians, etc." signs were envisaged (UK or here), they should be put up at all current motorways, as many drivers (particularly outside Dublin) will seldom have encountered motorways before.

Although the UK is no longer putting up such signs, and with the lack of them on the redesignated sections of motorway here, it seems the NRA have too, I do not think the logic in the UK (that people are now used to motorways, so the signs are unnecessary) applies here in Ireland. I think the situation here is today similar to the early days of motorways in the UK.

senordingdong

No, but people should know the rules, and since ignorance is not an excuse in this country, that completely absolves the NRA of any responsibility.

Anyway, those signs are ridiculous, there is far too much information to be processed in too short a space of time.

zagmund

Yes, everyone should know the rules . . . but that's no use if you are an L driver (or a cyclist, but at least they can leave the traffic flow relatively safely) and you find yourself moving from an N to an M without any warning at the last useful exit.

There's an approach to the M50 (or is it M11 there ?) as you come down from Kilcroney, heading towards Dublin where there's a notice to cyclists telling them that they should dismount (presumably because there's a motorway ahead), but then nothing further.

It's like the instruction is "cyclists dismount, then just vanish on a poof of smoke and re-appear at your destination." but they missed out the last bits.

Also what seems to be totally lacking is any indication to L-drivers as to what route they should take once they have left the motorway. I've seen in other countries where they signpost a non-motorway route as an alternative for L-drivers. If you were a learner and you headed off before that particular section of motorway you would either end up in Enniskerry (nightmare from the point of view of actually getting to Dublin) or the far side of Bray. I don't know what the signage is like around that area (Upper Dargle Road) but my guess is that Dublin will be signed via the motorway.

z

kippy

senordingdong wrote: »

You want me to draw you map?

There's also a shocking lack of good motorways.

Yes,
where else do you want to see motorways?

Amtmann

senordingdong wrote: »

You want me to draw you map?

Yes please.

mike65

Motorways for everyone appears to be the mentality of some. Cork-Galway could demand "dualing" other than that just a proper road would do (N24 for example).

L1011

senordingdong wrote: »

You want me to draw you map?

There's also a shocking lack of good motorways.

What exceptional standards do you define as a "good motorway" and what country are you basing those standards on?

And yes, map, please.

kippy

I am really looking forward to this map.

Tech3

kippy wrote: »

I am really looking forward to this map.

The only extra ones I can think of are the PPP's

M18/M17
M20
M11

Overkill after that.

kippy

tech2 wrote: »

The only extra ones I can think of are the PPP's

M18/M17
M20
M11

Overkill after that.

I think most of those are in the planning/construction phase at this moment. I really cant see the need for anything new after that to be honest.

icdg

zagmund wrote: »

Also what seems to be totally lacking is any indication to L-drivers as to what route they should take once they have left the motorway. I've seen in other countries where they signpost a non-motorway route as an alternative for L-drivers.

z

When they abolished the "Motorway Ahead" sign in the UK, they prescribed instead that "Non-motorway traffic" be posted as a destination on the last fork sign before regulations begin. We haven't done the same here and its still unclear as to whether the signs were simply overlooked this time (as they were still erecting them only weeks before the redesignation, on the Lucan Bypass upgrade project) or whether they have been officially abolished. (This is hard in the absence of a TSM that bears any resemblence to what the NRA are currently doing in terms of motorway signage, as it is still the 1996 version that is the "official" version).

The NRA have put up "Alternative Route" signs on the M4 and M6, but this seems to be to facilitate people in avoiding the M4 toll rather than anything else (and why the NRA have decided to do this in the M4's case is mystefying).

murphaph

Germany doesn't have any such signs, just the start of motorway regs signs. You are expected to know the rules surrounding that sign. If you are found walking on the motorway, you'll be prosecuted for it.

Zoney

True: but there isn't even consistent use of motorway chopsticks (yet) on approach signs to motorway - i.e. only use them on (e.g. rbout exits) actually directly onto the motorway. Even the pretty good signage on redesignated motorways e.g. M20 isn't perfect. E.g. the roundabout sign approaching western side of M20 J2, it properly has chopsticks for the exit on the western rbout leading to M20 north, but also incorrectly has the "across the bridge" destination with chopsticks - even though it should not be there - only on the rbout sign on the other side of the bridge, for the eastern rbout exit onto M20 south. Indeed coming from the Crescent Shopping Centre, M20 destination on even earlier rbout exits on the R link road is a blue panel with motorway chopsticks.

So even if someone knew motorway chopsticks means - "motorway restrictions start", they can't rely on the signage. I suppose you could argue a learner should play it safe and not take those earlier roundabout exits that are on an *R* road, but that doesn't seem sensible.

sdanseo

There shouldnt need to be these signs at the start of motorways, learners and tractor-driving muppets etc should know not to go near them.

I mean, you don't see an explanatory note beneath each red light saying "by the way, this means you've to stop", do you?

Zoney

sdonn:

True, but you generally have a warning sign (yellow diamond) followed by traffic lights. To try an analogy to inconsistent use of motorway chopsticks on directional signs, it would be like randomly having *actual traffic lights* where the warning sign is supposed to be, having just a warning sign where the traffic lights should be, or even better, having neither on just your approach to the junction and not having the lights till after you go through the junction (i.e. like the situations where e.g. an "M7" sign with chopsticks, signifying start of motorway, is at the bottom of a slip road).

Not a great analogy I'll give you that, but the point is that traffic lights are by and large consistent. Our motorway signage isn't.

Bluetonic

trad wrote: »

You think that's bad, the M1, the first motorway in Ireland does not have any Motorway Ahead Signs when you join at Whitehall north bound since the Port Tunnel was built so it looks like you can cycle to Newry from there..

There are signs northbound where the motorway begins at at M50 J2 (Santry/Coolock).

The M1 northbound starts at M50 J3.

The road which you are describing at Whitehall to M50 J2 (the old M1) is in fact the N1 and all traffic is permitted.

sdanseo

Bluetonic wrote: »

There are signs northbound where the motorway begins at at M50 J2 (Santry/Coolock).

The M1 northbound starts at M50 J3.

The road which you are describing at Whitehall to M50 J2 (the old M1) is in fact the N1 and all traffic is permitted.

Yeah, the most pointlessly narrow bit of road I ever saw. 2lanes+1 when there's easily room for D2 if not D3.

kippy

senordingdong wrote: »

You want me to draw you map?

There's also a shocking lack of good motorways.

Still waiting on that map........

Anyway, There should be no need for the massive motorway signs with multiple words on them. Just a simlple sign, "Motorway Ahead".
As someone mentioned those massive motorway signs are akin to posting the rules and regulations of traffic lights on a traffic light.
Drivers should be aware of the rules and regulations attached to motorways and as such the signage should be changed.

murphaph

sdonn wrote: »

Yeah, the most pointlessly narrow bit of road I ever saw. 2lanes+1 when there's easily room for D2 if not D3.

I believe that was to appease the residents NIMBYs so they wouldn't kick up a fuss about the tunnel works themselves-a little sweetener if you like. Bullsh!t of course-should have remained D2.

Carawaystick

Another thing kind of related.
there should be some kind of signage at the end of exit slips to inform peds and people on gee gees that it's a motorway and not to go down there. there's no entry signs but they obviously don't apply to peds and people on geegees...

sdanseo

murphaph wrote: »

I believe that was to appease the residents NIMBYs so they wouldn't kick up a fuss about the tunnel works themselves-a little sweetener if you like. Bullsh!t of course-should have remained D2.

My dad lives directly above the tunnel and put up with shaking walls (possibly a slight exxageration on his part :P ) but didn't kick up once cos' it was taking the 18-wheelers off the streets. I agree 100% theyre all moany gits.

Anyway, the weak link is the N1 into town from Whitehall not that stretch I suppose. We're gonna need another tunnel, about 10 overpasses or an elevated road for that to be solved - even if this govt gets a huge injection of common sense I cant see it happening. Same is the case on about 8 arterial routes citywide, too.

senordingdong

senordingdong wrote: »

Anyway, those signs are ridiculous, there is far too much information to be processed in too short a space of time.

I would follow the logic that if you're going slow enough to be able to read the whole sign, then you are probably using a prohibited vehicle.