Women in Television

Freckles..! · 15-11-2009 6:40pm #1

I currently have an assignment to do for college and I am going to do this on the representations of women in television and the ideologies of these shows. I have to pick two shows, one of which I have already decided to be Desperate Housewives. Has anyone any ideas on what other show to do? I was thinking sex and the city but if anyone has any other suggestions??

CutzEr · 15-11-2009 6:43pm

two and a half men?

phasers · 15-11-2009 6:44pm

How about something retro like I Dream of Jeanie?

The Pontiac · 15-11-2009 9:12pm

Is Sex and the City not a bit too obvious? The women of The Sopranos would be incredibly interesting. This clip doesn't feature Livia Soprano (Tony's mother), the coldest character ever to grace a TV screen, IMO..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG9zNd_-gWo

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 15-11-2009 9:14pm

battlestar galactica

Meeja Ireland · 15-11-2009 9:20pm

Good suggestions here, but if you pick something Irish like The Clinic, Pure Mule, or Fair City, you can probably arrange some interviews with the producers and writers, and that might really help your project to stand out.

mikom · 15-11-2009 9:24pm

May I suggest "How clean is your house?"

JonathanAnon · 15-11-2009 9:32pm

Might be interesting to compare and contrast how women have been represented on Irish television. From The Reardons, Glenroe and the like where there were more traditional values to the modern independent women in contemporary Irish productions like Fair City, Raw, Pure Mule etc etc.

The Pontiac · 15-11-2009 9:38pm

Mad Men would also be very interesting . It won nine Emmys and three Golden Globes. It is probably a realistic depiction of women in the chauvinistic world of the 60's.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 15-11-2009 9:53pm

I realise someone mentioned Two and a Half Men as a joke, but that could be a very good one. Also The Sopranos is a great suggestion. Maybe Baywatch or something like that either.

Hank_Jones · 15-11-2009 9:59pm

Freaks and Geeks or possibly Everybody Loves Raymond.

Those programs show strong intelligent woman.

pickarooney · 15-11-2009 10:16pm

<Ollie> wrote: »

Mad Men would also be very interesting . It won nine Emmys and three Golden Globes. It is probably a realistic depiction of women in the chauvinistic world of the 60's.

This would have been my first and only suggestion.

Freckles..! · 16-11-2009 1:49am

thanks for all the suggestions guys!
mad men might be a good choice cos my lecturer is in love with the show! i guess i thought of sex and the city as a good choice cos im so familiar with it... also the women in irish television might be an interesting angle.. ill have to sit down and think about this

i definately think i am going to go with desperate housewives though, what are peoples thoughts on that??
i dont really know what way i am going to do this yet, like, i dont know if i want my two shows to show conflicting representations or to show the same, if you catch my drift..

Mr.Nice Guy · 16-11-2009 2:52am

Freckles..! wrote: »

thanks for all the suggestions guys!
mad men might be a good choice cos my lecturer is in love with the show! i guess i thought of sex and the city as a good choice cos im so familiar with it... also the women in irish television might be an interesting angle.. ill have to sit down and think about this

i definately think i am going to go with desperate housewives though, what are peoples thoughts on that??
i dont really know what way i am going to do this yet, like, i dont know if i want my two shows to show conflicting representations or to show the same, if you catch my drift..

I think it would be better to show conflicting representations. Mad Men is a great choice as it highlights very well the negative attitudes shown towards women from a different era. You could contrast that by looking at a modern show which features women in a more positive light. Sex and the City would seem to me to be a good choice in that sense as it's about 4 independent women.

Richard Dower · 16-11-2009 8:24am

My advice it's The Girls Next Door...perfect example of modern women in the US and on tv.

Elmo · 16-11-2009 12:11pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think it would be better to show conflicting representations. Mad Men is a great choice as it highlights very well the negative attitudes shown towards women from a different era. You could contrast that by looking at a modern show which features women in a more positive light. Sex and the City would seem to me to be a good choice in that sense as it's about 4 independent women.

I don't know if sex and the city does show women in a positive light. I find it to be very stereotypical in many respects. While they are all strong they still have an infatuation with love or if independence means sex then sex.

I think you should look at shows not specifically aimed at either men or women.

ER and The Practice both come to mind for the strong roles that their female cast took.

Or perhaps you should look at

ER (Non-gender specific)
Sex in the City (Female specific)
and
2 and half men (women as sexual objects in the 2000s)

Thats 20 years of TV drama right there.

pickarooney · 16-11-2009 12:53pm

Mad Men, while it shows the negative attitudes towards women in the 60s, certainly doesn't show women in a negative light (it shows men, and rich, white men in particular in a negative light but the women are in many cases exemplary role models).

Desperate Housewives, on the other hand, shows women in a rather negative light, I find. It has that whole one-trick pony attitude of the ditsy one/the hot one/the caring businesswoman one/the uptight domestic goddess that does nothing to illustrate the rich, layered aspect of women in more complex shows.

I think it will be genuinely difficult to draw any conclusion based on a programme predominantly featuring women as it is often by opposition that their qualities are best shown.

Sleazus · 16-11-2009 1:24pm

I'll second an above post which suggested Battlestar Galactica - particularly since it's a remake of an original show (which might be handy to contrast it with) and got into a bit of trouble with 'die hards' for rewriting several characters (Cain, Athena, Starbuck, etc.) as women. It also features a fantastic lead performance from Mary McDonnell.

It's also interesting to contrast the show's sexualisation of its female characters (Tricia Helfer's Number Six) with the sexualisation of other women in the sci-fi genre (Seven of Nine, for example). The show eschews most of fetishism around such women - no skin tight jumpsuits, for example - the only real sex object of the show is inside one of the male leads' head (and he isn't even a clear-cut good guy).

Elmo · 16-11-2009 2:20pm

Sleazus wrote: »

It's also interesting to contrast the show's sexualisation of its female characters (Tricia Helfer's Number Six) with the sexualisation of other women in the sci-fi genre (Seven of Nine, for example). The show eschews most of fetishism around such women - no skin tight jumpsuits, for example - the only real sex object of the show is inside one of the male leads' head (and he isn't even a clear-cut good guy).

But that is really just about his fantasies rather than actual women . But it is a good reflection of how men see women. We should be disgusted with ourselves.

Sci-fi is actually a great genre for examining stereotyping.

Sleazus · 16-11-2009 8:04pm

Elmo wrote: »

Sci-fi is actually a great genre for examining stereotyping.

It is actually, because it's always been a genre regarded as forward thinking and progressive, but - when you boil right down to it - there tends to be a fair bit of gender discrimination and objectification going on. Yes, every show casts attractive female leads, but how many put them in suits so tight that they faint between takes?

Richard Dower · 16-11-2009 8:18pm

Wasn't there a big controversy about Stargate?....Atlantis?, lead actress being lesbo and turfed out etc?

baalthor · 16-11-2009 9:15pm

<Ollie> wrote: »

Mad Men would also be very interesting . It won nine Emmys and three Golden Globes. It is probably a realistic depiction of women in the chauvinistic world of the 60's.

It's a depiction of the 1960s from the point of view of the 21st century.

If I was doing a project like this I would use a program actually made in the 60s/70s

EKRIUQ · 16-11-2009 9:19pm

The big bang theory, how women interact with the geeks

chalkitdown · 16-11-2009 9:34pm

Freckles..! wrote: »

I currently have an assignment to do for college and I am going to do this on the representations of women in television and the ideologies of these shows. I have to pick two shows, one of which I have already decided to be Desperate Housewives. Has anyone any ideas on what other show to do? I was thinking sex and the city but if anyone has any other suggestions??

I would contact these people, might give you some interesting suggestions.

http://wftvireland.com/about.html

The Pontiac · 16-11-2009 10:27pm

baalthor wrote: »

It's a depiction of the 1960s from the point of view of the 21st century.

If I was doing a project like this I would use a program actually made in the 60s/70s

I don't agree you at all. I believe if you picked any TV show made in the early 1960's it would be far less realistic in its portrayal of sexism, homophobia and adultery. Do you know any show made in this period that featured gay characters? Was sexism in the workplace honestly depicted in TV shows made during this period? I doubt very much it was.. Did adultery even feature?

Sleazus · 16-11-2009 11:26pm

<Ollie> wrote: »

I don't agree you at all. I believe if you picked any TV show made in the early 1960's it would be far less realistic in its portrayal of sexism, homophobia and adultery. Do you know any show made in this period that featured gay characters? Was sexism in the workplace honestly depicted in TV shows made during this period? I doubt very much it was.. Did adultery even feature?

Ah yes, but -from what I understand - the project isn't on women and gender relations as a social science. He's not attempting to document how women were treated by men in their day-to-day lives in the 1960s/1970s.

It's on women in popular culture. And while a modern show set in the past may tell us a lot about how women were treated at thet time, it can't tell us how women in popular culture were treated at the time (unless it's about women in television like weather girls or actress or so on).

It can tell us how women in popular culture are treated when the show is made - which is now.

I love the show, but I think you'd want to be delicate in basing a gender studies in media question around it.

Elmo · 17-11-2009 12:24am

<Ollie> wrote: »

I don't agree you at all. I believe if you picked any TV show made in the early 1960's it would be far less realistic in its portrayal of sexism, homophobia and adultery. Do you know any show made in this period that featured gay characters? Was sexism in the workplace honestly depicted in TV shows made during this period? I doubt very much it was.. Did adultery even feature?

Perhaps you should take Peyton Place V Mad Men?

The Pontiac · 17-11-2009 3:19am

Sleazus wrote: »

Ah yes, but -from what I understand - the project isn't on women and gender relations as a social science. He's not attempting to document how women were treated by men in their day-to-day lives in the 1960s/1970s.

It's on women in popular culture. And while a modern show set in the past may tell us a lot about how women were treated at thet time, it can't tell us how women in popular culture were treated at the time (unless it's about women in television like weather girls or actress or so on).

It can tell us how women in popular culture are treated when the show is made - which is now.

I love the show, but I think you'd want to be delicate in basing a gender studies in media question around it.

You could be very well correct here..If this is what the assignment is based on, then Mad Men would be of no use at all.

Elmo wrote: »

Perhaps you should take Peyton Place V Mad Men?

Peyton Place looks very interesting indeed. Not too sure how long it would have lasted had it been aired in Ireland...I still think the media today has a lot more scope in dealing with the issues back then. The rape scene in series 2 is an example of this. I'd be surprised if the word "rape" would have been used back then in a TV drama. It's not that rape of women doesn't occur today - it was the way that Joan accepted it as her fate and headed off to diner with her rapist finacé afterwards.

elshambo · 17-11-2009 4:26am

Loose Women!
Expose!!!
Holyoaks
90% of rubbish programming on telly

EDINBRO · 17-11-2009 5:06am

Definitely Mad Men!

Betty, Peggy and Joan are three of the best female characters on tv!

I wouldn't go down sex city/ desperate housewives route.. bit too obvious

Elmo · 17-11-2009 11:02am

<Ollie> wrote: »

Peyton Place looks very interesting indeed. Not too sure how long it would have lasted had it been aired in Ireland...I still think the media today has a lot more scope in dealing with the issues back then. The rape scene in series 2 is an example of this. I'd be surprised if the word "rape" would be been used back then in a TV drama. It's not that rape of women doesn't occur today - it was the way that Joan accepted it as her fate and headed off to diner with her rapist finacé afterwards.

My mother was a big fan of Peyton Place in the 1960s so I believe it ran here on RTÉ and I know she watched the repeats when they air in the mid-1990s. The Riordan's was quite controversial on woman's issues unlikely that they had someone raped or abused in that series but they did talk about contraception and other taboo subjects.

In terms of Irish censorship the 1960's had Minister Brian Leihan Snr bring out a new law for the appeal of censorship, basically the censor could censor but the cinema owners had the right to appeal and that appeal had to be over turned, this was due to a number of cinema owners pointing out that they did not have enough content year round and this was causing them serious financial problems (also helped that the ministers distant family owned some cinemas). So by the Late 1960s Ireland was seeing a relaxation in censorship laws.

Richard Dower · 17-11-2009 2:10pm

Women on tv?...some very informative programming on Playboy.

17-11-2009 5:19pm

Elmo wrote: »

But that is really just about his fantasies rather than actual women . But it is a good reflection of how men see women. We should be disgusted with ourselves.

Yes, how dare we enjoy looking at attractive women. You, of course, won't find any attractive men treated as "sex objects" in women's media...

There's tons of examples here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandard

Elmo · 17-11-2009 6:25pm

994 wrote: »

Yes, how dare we enjoy looking at attractive women. You, of course, won't find any attractive men treated as "sex objects" in women's media...

I was being sarcastic, sure both sexes have been objectified in the media. And it was in relation to what was said before that.

And the article suggests that the repecentation of the man and the woman in BSG is sexist to both male and females.

"Ugly Guy Hot Wife (Heavy Unfortunate Implications: a) Women are expected to overlook appearances and love men for who they are, regardless their sex-appeal b) Women MUST be attractive before anything else since men are too shallow and too sex-crazed to go past this c) The inverted version is only acceptable for comedic purposes.)"

In the case of BSG it is Ironic, due to the nature of the male character and the cylones control over him.

Elmo · 17-11-2009 6:35pm

994 wrote: »

There's tons of examples here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandard

The writer seems to contradict themselves but it is a interesting article.

Elmo · 17-11-2009 6:44pm

I think the people writting much of that are taking things far too seriously. Surely 3rd Rock From the Sun is paroiding the Ugly husband/Goodlooking wife trope.

Third Rock From The Sun features Don & Sally. Played with in that Sally has no idea Don is supposed to be ugly (despite the fact that he's played by Wayne Knight), and finds his power as a police officer sexy.
In fact, Sally thinks everyone in society is just as smitten with Don's "good looks" as she. One episode has sally thinking she is too unattractive to believably be with someone like don.

They forget that when don takes of his uniform Sally is disgusted at his appearance.

3rd Rock From the Sun would also be a great exploration of Women in TV and Gender roles on TV.

Women in Television

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