Homeschooling and religion

Plowman

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PDN

My understanding is that the State educates children in loco parentis - or acting on behalf of the parents. If parents do not trust the State to do this properly, then they have the responsibility to provide for their children's education themselves.

I must admit that, as I view some of the semi-literate savages that are emerging from our educational system, I have very little faith in the ability of the State to act on my behalf.

I paid to send my daughter to a private school on two grounds. Firstly, I believed that a curriculum that majored on literacy and tailored to the needs of the individual would be better than that offered by the State. Secondly, I did not want her to receive indoctrination from the Catholic Church. If the private option had not been available then I would have considered homeschooling as an option, but I agree that it could potentially raise problems in regards to socialisation.

However, I think private schooling or homeschooling are a poor second best. My preferred option would be to pay higher taxes and to have a world class secular educational system in Ireland.

lmaopml

I know a few Catholics who homeschool here in Ireland too. I guess it depends on the area and the quality of the schools in that area, and perhaps many other factors too as to why people would choose to homeschool.

As far as the state is concerned and the quality of education in Ireland, in fact the latest PISA study shows us among the highest in the literary category, and keeping up and doing better than some who you would imagine should be 'top of the class' etc. It seems countries like Canada and Finland (overall) are doing a top notch job too in relation to Science, Literacy and Mathmatics....also South Korea and Hong Kong.

Here are the top ten in the literacy category in order..:

S. Korea
Finland
Hong Kong
Canada
New Zealand
Ireland
Australia
Liechtenstein
Poland
Sweden

Our Science and Mathmatics scores aren't anything to be highly ashamed of either, although they could do with some attention and improvement..

LOL, sounds like a report card

wolfsbane

Plowman wrote: »

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I have only one caveat on PDN's position. If secular education moves from the broad consensus of our society and begins to teach against Christian doctrine and standards, our children will be educated to be atheists/agnostics rather than have their Christian beliefs at least left alone.

When most teachers are atheists/agnostics and their standards often immoral by Christian standards, a real problem arises. Hence Home-schooling. Here in the North in state schools we still have a Christian leavening among the teachers and the boards, so Home-schooling or Christian Schools are still a small minority.

Finally, an important practical element if the decision to home-school is when the available schools have degenerated in behaviour, where bullying, foul language and sexual activity is rife. The kids mirroring their parents.

dvpower

PDN wrote: »

My understanding is that the State educates children in loco parentis - or acting on behalf of the parents. If parents do not trust the State to do this properly, then they have the responsibility to provide for their children's education themselves.

Or insist that the state reform the education system; education is a service that taxpayers pay the state to provide, and a fundamental one at that. When significant numbers are choosing to home school this points to a failure in the system.

dvpower

wolfsbane wrote: »

I have only one caveat on PDN's position. If secular education moves from the broad consensus of our society and begins to teach against Christian doctrine and standards, our children will be educated to be atheists/agnostics rather than have their Christian beliefs at least left alone.

A secular system != an anti Christian system.
But I can understand your concern. The current system is educating children of Atheists/Agnostics as Christians.

Splendour

My three children have been through (and last one currently going through) a Catholic school education and I have nothing but praise for the education they've received.
Home schooling my work for some but not for all. This can only be attained if one parent is willing, or able, to stay at home with the children. Having said that, I don't know if it's the best option for kids as it only shelters them from the real world and can cause resentment toward parents. Children have to be exposed to the world with all it's ups and downs otherwise how can they make an informed decision about Christianity?

monosharp

lmaopml wrote: »

Here are the top ten in the literacy category in order..:

S. Korea
Finland
Hong Kong
Canada
New Zealand
Ireland
Australia
Liechtenstein
Poland
Sweden

huh ?

List of countries by literacy rate, as included in the United Nations Development Programme Report 2009. (wikipedia)

Rank Country Literacy rate
1 Cuba 99.8
1 Estonia 99.8
1 Latvia 99.8
4 Barbados 99.7 [j]
4 Slovenia 99.7 [l]
4 Belarus 99.7
4 Lithuania 99.7
4 Ukraine 99.7
9 Kazakhstan 99.6
9 Tajikistan 99.6
11 Armenia 99.5
11 Azerbaijan 99.5
11 Turkmenistan 99.5
11 Russia 99.5
15 Kyrgyzstan 99.3
15 Poland 99.3 [j]
17 Moldova 99.2 [l]
17 Tonga 99.2
19 Albania 99.0
19 Antigua and Barbuda 99.0 [q]
19 Australia 99.0 [d]
19 Austria 99.0 [d]
19 Belgium 99.0 [d]
19 Canada 99.0 [d]
19 Czech Republic 99.0 [d]
19 Denmark 99.0 [d]
19 Finland 99.0 [d]
19 France 99.0 [d]
19 Germany 99.0 [d]
19 Guyana 99.0 [j]
19 Iceland 99.0 [d]
19 Ireland 99.0 [d]
19 Japan 99.0 [d]
19 Republic of Korea 99.0 [d]

Actually North Korea is generally believed to be the most literate country in the world, but it doesn't make the list for ... eh well obvious reasons.

The Korean alphabet is extremely simple to learn and very exact in its writing. A lot of linguists think this accounts for the literacy rates.

BrianCalgary

I am not a big fan of home-schooling. The kids that I teach and coach that are home-schooled are sorely lacking in social skills. And they are not necessarily smarter than those who are secular schooled. I also find that they are more narrow minded in their worldview.

It comes right down to the fact that as parents we send our kids to school to learn. They get their maths and sciences better explained from one who is well versed in those subjects than I could ever give my kids.

But, it is still the parents responsibility to teach and reflect proper morals and outlooks to their kids.

Unfortunately secular teachers dont necessarily support th ehome values within the classroom.

lmaopml

monosharp wrote: »

huh ?

list..

List of countries by literacy rate, as included in the United Nations Development Programme Report 2009. (wikipedia)

Actually North Korea is generally believed to be the most literate country in the world, but it doesn't make the list for ... eh well obvious reasons.

The Korean alphabet is extremely simple to learn and very exact in its writing. A lot of linguists think this accounts for the literacy rates.

Hi Monosharp,

That's the Adult literacy program conducted by the United Nations..lol...it says so at the top of the wiki article.

The post above is in relation to 15 year old school children in keeping with the topic of the opening post. It's the PISA study, and is very well renowned....

If I knew how to post a picture I would post the graph in full?? It also includes Science and Mathmatics..

Plowman

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lmaopml

Cheers plowman, that's the one

It seems Finland is the country to try to emulate...Canada and Hong Kong are consistently good too...

Reading is good, maths ( Is that the full list? - I know it's looonnnnggg, and if I remember correctly we aren't too far off Germany, with the UK pretty much the same ) and science need some attention...however, with the emergence of the pharmaceutical industries - and they seem to be the thriving industries at the moment - we should see some change in the next study to reflect this...

...I think it's every three years the OECD conduct this? I think the graph represents 2006, but couldn't be 100% on that...

It's a great all round study and should give a boot in the bum to our minister for education to concentrate and reflect on the results, and take the action where necessary, or take a leaf out of the book of those countries that are consistently at the top! The only way is up....lol....

I hope....:)

Edit: Sorry opening post for dragging off topic..lol..

wolfsbane

dvpower wrote: »

A secular system != an anti Christian system.
But I can understand your concern. The current system is educating children of Atheists/Agnostics as Christians.

I said IF the secular system moves to an anti-Christian position. No need for either a religious or anti-religious position in a secular school.

The problem comes in determining what values are to be taught. There are norms both Christian and non-Christian have had in common for generations and the problem didn't arise.

But with the present shift on homosexuality and sex outside marriage, basic flaw-lines are emerging. Consensus is rapidly eroding.

Phototoxin

My fiancee and I have discussed it as my experience of the UK state system
is that it is rubbish compared to the irish one whcih is more rounded. Also there is lots of social support for home schooling kids... they have networks and things.

postcynical

PDN wrote: »

I must admit that, as I view some of the semi-literate savages that are emerging from our educational system, I have very little faith in the ability of the State to act on my behalf.

You should see some of the students they produce:pac:

Plowman

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