The Easter Lilly

Fuinseog

given the much heated debate on the poppy and the one sided letters to the editor opinion in the Times I was wondering if we should revive the Easter lilly. should we feel ashamed to wear the Easter lilly looking on it as the mark of the beast or a symbol of our culture and history?
Given that the poppy supporters claim to support all the Irish war dead, presumably whether that be The Somme or Easter Week, would it be feasible to wear the poppy with pride in November and the lilly with equal pride at Easter?

R.Dub.Fusilier

Fuinseog wrote: »

given the much heated debate on the poppy and the one sided letters to the editor opinion in the Times I was wondering if we should revive the Easter lilly. should we feel ashamed to wear the Easter lilly looking on it as the mark of the beast or a symbol of our culture and history?
Given that the poppy supporters claim to support all the Irish war dead, presumably whether that be The Somme or Easter Week, would it be feasible to wear the poppy with pride in November and the lilly with equal pride at Easter?

i used to wear a metal lilly badge all year round , i havent worn it in a while , and used to wear paper one at Easter time. i have never worn a poppy but am not against others who want to wear one. people should not be ashamed to remember those Irish nationalists who died for Irish freedom on the bloody fields of Flanders , France and the Balkins in WW1 or the streets and hills of Ireland during the War of Independence.

johnny_doyle

with family ties in both camps, I wear both symbols.

This thread might be better off in the politics section rather than WW1.

Fuinseog

johnny_doyle wrote: »

with family ties in both camps, I wear both symbols.

This thread might be better off in the politics section rather than WW1.

as indeed should the poppy debate. it is still clearly a controversial and devisive symbol in this country.

Fuinseog

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

i used to wear a metal lilly badge all year round , i havent worn it in a while , and used to wear paper one at Easter time. i have never worn a poppy but am not against others who want to wear one. people should not be ashamed to remember those Irish nationalists who died for Irish freedom on the bloody fields of Flanders , France and the Balkins in WW1 or the streets and hills of Ireland during the War of Independence.

I have seen people wear the metal one recently, but I always thought it was something worn only at easter time.

johnny_doyle

Fuinseog wrote: »

as indeed should the poppy debate. it is still clearly a controversial and devisive symbol in this country.

no arguments from me there but the poppy thread has run it's course. This is a continuation in a slightly different guise/emphasis.

diverdriver

The Easter lily isn't directly comparable to the poppy, at least not anymore. The popply may be controversial in Ireland but elsewhere it's a commemoration of the war dead in several countries including Canada and Australia and used for fundraising. The Easter Lily's meaning has changed quite a lot over the years.

The main problem with the Easter lilly is that it was appropriated by the IRA and latterly the Provos and other Republican extremists. So for many people it's an indication of a particular Republican viewpoint or Sinn Fein not to mention being associated with terrorism. Even the type of Easter lily you wore would ally you with one side or other. I've seen some for sale lately by an individual who was a long time IRA member and now CIRA supporter. Not exactly my cup of tea.

That's the problem with far too many of our national symbols. Their use by the extremists. It was hard enough to take back the tricolour. I remember when I was a kid, me and my friend stuck a small tricolour onto his Father's garage. As we stood proudly watching it flutter, the Father appeared and roared at us to take it down or he'll get arrested. Exaggeration surely but the point was made.

Even now I believe that we have mostly lost our national identity as Irish because we have no symbols left that haven't become associated with Republicans and terrorisms. Other than football fans and St Patrick's day, it's hard to do any 'flag waving' without people thinking you're a Republican.

Whatever the Easter lily once meant, it's finished now except as a means of identifying someone of a particular ideology.

Morlar

diverdriver wrote: »

Whatever the Easter lily once meant, it's finished now except as a means of identifying someone of a particular ideology.

I really do not think it has, that same attitude would cause someone to say poppies are for the UVF. Yes UVF supporters will wear armistice poppies but not only them, not by a long shot. Likewise with the Easter Lilly, you will have some CIRA peeps wearing them - that does not mean that everybody who wears one is of that same affiliation.

R.Dub.Fusilier

Morlar wrote: »

I really do not think it has, that same attitude would cause someone to say poppies are for the UVF. Yes UVF supporters will wear armistice poppies but not only them, not by a long shot. Likewise with the Easter Lilly, you will have some CIRA peeps wearing them - that does not mean that everybody who wears one is of that same affiliation.

couldn't agree with you more.

bunny shooter

My enduring memory of the Easter Lilly was when I was about 7-8 (1975 ish)and some lads were selling it outside the church gates on Easter Sunday morning. There were 2-3 Gardai across the street from the church gate. All of a sudden the Gardai began to jostle the lads selling them and then it got very ugly as batons were drawn and used. My father stopped me and said to me "don't ever buy or wear an Easter Lilly, ok?" Most of his family and he himself would be staunch FF. To this day every time I see it I see those Gardai 'persuading' them lads that they should stop :eek:

Wear a poppy? I'd be less afraid to wear it than an Easter Lilly I reckon :eek:

bunny shooter

diverdriver wrote: »

.............The main problem with the Easter lilly is that it was appropriated by the IRA and latterly the Provos and other Republican extremists. So for many people it's an indication of a particular Republican viewpoint or Sinn Fein not to mention being associated with terrorism..............

And what of the tricolour then ? Should non Provisional IRA/CIRA republicans and the state not use it for same reason then ?

Fuinseog

The main problem with the Easter lilly is that it was appropriated by the IRA and latterly the Provos and other Republican extremists. So for many people it's an indication of a particular Republican viewpoint or Sinn Fein not to mention being associated with terrorism. Even the type of Easter lily you wore would ally you with one side or other. I've seen some for sale lately by an individual who was a long time IRA member and now CIRA supporter. Not exactly my cup of tea.

That's the problem with far too many of our national symbols. Their use by the extremists. It was hard enough to take back the tricolour. I remember when I was a kid, me and my friend stuck a small tricolour onto his Father's garage. As we stood proudly watching it flutter, the Father appeared and roared at us to take it down or he'll get arrested. Exaggeration surely but the point was made.

Even now I believe that we have mostly lost our national identity as Irish because we have no symbols left that haven't become associated with Republicans and terrorisms. Other than football fans and St Patrick's day, it's hard to do any 'flag waving' without people thinking you're a Republican.

Whatever the Easter lily once meant, it's finished now except as a means of identifying someone of a particular ideology.[/quote]


true we have the tricolour, which a lot of people diplay backwards i.e. orange, white and green.
whats the storz with green, white and gold?

Easter commemerations are being slowly reclaimed. true, the lily is not worn so much, but the army is comemmerating 1916.

diverdriver

Of course it doesn't mean everyone who wears an Easter lily is of a particular political viewpoint. But you can be pretty sure that most of them are. Bunnyshooter's experience sums it up. You can be quite sure the 'lads' selling the lilies weren't hassled because of the lilies per se. But because they were well known to the Garda for their political sympathies.

The difference with the tricolour, Bunnyshooter is that it's our national flag, the Easter lily isn't. The fact of the flag's misuse by extremists doesn't take that away. The British have a similar problem with the union flag and the English with the cross of St George.

The point is that it's people's perception of what a symbol means rather than it's actual meaning. In any case, rather than wear an Easter lily, why not wear a tricolour badge? I have done quite often although not much of a badge wearer. A small tricolour pin has no negative connotations.

arnhem44

I've never seen anyone having trouble when wearing one,at the same time I've never seen them for sale either that often.Maybe in certain parts of the country wearing of the Poppy and or Lilly is more widespread than other areas,for me I don't have any issues with people who wear one or the other or both if needs must.