OPINION POLL: Are the unions correct to strike on the 24th?

nesf

Should the unions in your opinion be striking on the 24th?

Overheal

I dont know (obviously)

Reasons For?

Reasons Against?

nesf

Overheal wrote: »

I dont know (obviously)

Reasons For?

Reasons Against?

If people want to list reasons that's fine but I don't want to turn this thread into a debate on the subject, it's purely to give an idea of the mood of the boards.ie posters on the subject.

Richiecats

With such a general question the answer has to be NO

sold

I'm not in a union and not in public service, For sure if I were in their boat I would not like to see my pay cut. But there is nothing to gain from the strick.

BostonB

I would say no. But most in the public sector would say yes. I thought there were a lot of different reasons for this. But I'm beginning to think its simply a case of a turkey not voting for xmas.

ParkRunner

The question is really far too broad in my opinion to have any real significance. There are many different unions going be involved in the strike on the 24th, if it goes ahead, some representing front line workers, some representing the lowest-paid admin staff, some representing technical staff etc.

Even within the individual groups there are those who may have only recently started in their jobs and are on a low basic wage and those who have been in their jobs for many years, taking home an attractive wage along with allowances, overtime and bonuses etc.

In my opinion some have more justification for striking than others and while I recognise that cuts have to occur, I hope the result of the cuts is that:

1) The numbers working on the front line is protected.
2) The lower paid are not hit to such a degree that they will be left completely demoralised and unable to pay the bills
3) Hard working, dedicated, skilled workers are not put in a situation where it is best to emigrate, resulting in a poor standard of service that will be frustrating for everyone

Unwilling

But sure noone wants to see their pay cut.. but most of us in the private sector dont' have a choice. It's do or you and your co - workers loose your jobs.
I do however believe there a many many areas in the public sector where savings can be made... streamlining purchases, centralising activities... it's all so archaeic and segmented that it's no wonder it is a money pit....

LookBehindYou

The way i see it is : There are many in the Public service who are good hard workers and do not earn too much money, Those same people are not allowed to use their inititive to improve things. It is typical in the public service for wasters and lick arses to get promoted to managerial positions, and some of those could not organise a dogs dinner.
There is no co operation of the different Public departments.

On the subject of the strike,, they will gain nothing striking.

nesf

EF wrote: »

The question is really far too broad in my opinion to have any real significance.

Well, I chose a broadly worded question to avoid any possible biasing of the result. If I phrased it as "Do you think the Unions will gain anything from Striking" this would split the pro-union side into Yes and Nos (i.e. some might feel that Yes the unions should strike but that they won't achieve anything by doing so) while leaving the anti-union side all in the No camp.

Essentially the more narrow we make the question here the more room we have for people to feel that they're being funneled into giving a particular answer. A broad question allows a simple show of support for either side.

mikemac

Unions are paid to represent their members interest.
The bearded leaders didn't decide on the strike, it was the members who voted for it.

So the unions are taking drastic action and hope to succeed without public support. If they succeed or fail depends on the backbone of our cabinet ministers

Let's sit back and see what happens

Btw, unions represent hundreds of thousands of private sector workers, are they protesting too? No??

bladespin

The unions don't seem to be interested in solidarity at all, they've divided the country and are creating a hatred for public servants that's palpable, I dread to think where this will go.

nesf

bladespin wrote: »

The unions don't seem to be interested in solidarity at all, they've divided the country and are creating a hatred for public servants that's palpable, I dread to think where this will go.

What I find bizarre about this strike is that it doesn't screw over bankers or politicians but ordinary people who had hip replacement surgery that day, parents who both work now having to find child sitters for the day, people who've already booked time off work to do their driving test that day and so on.

I just fail to see how this won't negatively affect the public sector unions' support amongst private sector workers.

S.L.F

The newspapers aren't being impartial in this at all and considering all things it is my belief that the division has been orchestrated by those in power who want to make the cuts with the least amount of opposition

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/madness-of-public-sector-sick-days-is-infecting-nation-1924831.html

The number of lies in that piece is just astonishing.

I'm not a PS worker but I support the strike.

nesf

S.L.F wrote: »

The newspapers aren't being impartial in this at all and considering all things it is my belief that the division has been orchestrated by those in power who want to make the cuts with the least amount of opposition

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/madness-of-public-sector-sick-days-is-infecting-nation-1924831.html

The number of lies in that piece is just astonishing.

I'm not a PS worker but I support the strike.

Eh, that newspaper piece is an opinion piece by Kevin Myers. Such opinion pieces are inevitably biased towards one side or the other and cannot be used as an example of reporting in newspapers!

Plus, like, it's Kevin Myers who isn't exactly a paragon of serious unbiased reporting in any sane person's mind!

dlofnep

Kevin Myers is an opinion columnist, not a news reporter.

I support the workers who wish to strike. It's not my pay that's being reduced. It's not me who will have to live with the consequences of what the pay cut will mean for normal working families. There are many public service workers who do not earn enough for their hard work like firemen and women.

S.L.F

nesf wrote: »

Eh, that newspaper piece is an opinion piece by Kevin Myers. Such opinion pieces are inevitably biased towards one side or the other and cannot be used as an example of reporting in newspapers!

Plus, like, it's Kevin Myers who isn't exactly a paragon of serious unbiased reporting in any sane person's mind!

Yes but has there been any unbiased opinion pieces in the indo recently.

In a word "No".

They have all been the same PS bashers.

Another example

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/civil-service-privilege-day-perks-escape-axe-1937137.html

I'm not adding anything extra to this thread

mrbig

The answer is yes they are right to strike, I dont work in the public service and think they are over paid but if they dont strike they will be bent over.
I think there is a sickening amount of waste in the public sector but this is the fault of the top people not the individual worker, people in management positions should have there salary cut and given the opertunity to make it up in bonus payments were they deliver a more eficient service.

Mcloke

nesf wrote: »

What I find bizarre about this strike is that it doesn't screw over bankers or politicians but ordinary people who had hip replacement surgery that day, parents who both work now having to find child sitters for the day, people who've already booked time off work to do their driving test that day and so on.

I just fail to see how this won't negatively affect the public sector unions' support amongst private sector workers.

As a non public sector worker...before people start to think I am :rolleyes: What do you expect them to do...sit back and take it? Maybe the people who you have mentioned will realise how much we rely on public sector workers in our day to day lives.
The pay cuts suggested and the pension levy are the governments way of not dealing with the real problems...the pension levy conviently arrived after the government stated that they would use the pension reserve to help out the banks...da dah the pension levy was born!
If they tackled public sector reform they would find the savings they need but that is too big a job so what the hell lets just take a chunk from everyone.

I really don't get the one side vs the other...the whole country is messed up and the government hasn't got a clue how to fix it :rolleyes:

nesf

Mcloke wrote: »

As a non public sector worker...before people start to think I am :rolleyes: What do you expect them to do...sit back and take it?

They wouldn't be sitting back and taking it, their unions are already at the table negotiating with the Government and their previous rallies showed the Government that if they wanted the unions could pull off large scale strike action. The one day strike doesn't achieve anything other than showing what everyone already knew, i.e. that public sector workers were angry and were more than willing to engage in industrial action.

jimmmy

As a foreigner said to me yesterday . "ze public service in Ireland , Mein Gott, ze are paid so much, are zey mad ? All zey will do is cost the country millions".
I did not have the heart to tell him they are the highest paid in the known world ( and has increased this year from 966 to 973 per week )....and government borrowing to support their pay and pensions is one of the main reasons the country is borrowing 500 million per week, and increasing.

boodlesdoodles

jimmmy wrote: »

As a foreigner said to me yesterday . "ze public service in Ireland , Mein Gott, ze are paid so much, are zey mad ? All zey will do is cost the country millions".
I did not have the heart to tell him they are the highest paid in the known world ( and has increased this year from 966 to 973 per week )....and government borrowing to support their pay and pensions is one of the main reasons the country is borrowing 500 million per week, and increasing.

Jeepers, Jimmmy you've no problem telling everyone here on boards your opinion about public service pay or was it because its not technically true (as its based on averages) and you didn't have the courage of your convictions. You've disappointed me

The_Thing

Yes, the public sector unions are absolutely right to strike on the 24th. Not only that, but everyone else should do the same too.

Turty3

I'm a PS worker who will be on a picket line next Tuesday. I have already taken an 8% pay cut this year (income levy + pension levy) and I can't afford anymore. Soon I'll be better off on the dole claiming for my OH who's been out of work eight months and gets nothing from the DSFA.

alastair

Turty3 wrote: »

I'm a PS worker who will be on a picket line next Tuesday. I have already taken an 8% pay cut this year (income levy + pension levy) and I can't afford anymore. Soon I'll be better off on the dole claiming for my OH who's been out of work eight months and gets nothing from the DSFA.

Everyone in a job pays the income levy, and you didn't lose 7% on your take home pay with the pension levy - more like 4%. You also retain (for a small premium) that nice pension that no-one outside the public sector could afford to buy. You're not doing too badly in the bigger picture.

kangaroo

alastair wrote: »

Everyone in a job pays the income levy, and you didn't lose 7% on your take home pay with the pension levy - more like 4%. You also retain (for a small premium) that nice pension that no-one outside the public sector could afford to buy. You're not doing too badly in the bigger picture.

There is also deflation at the moment.

Some/most (not an expert on this) PS workers got two pay increases in 2008:
2.5% March 1, 2008 (Towards 2016)
2.5% Sept 1, 2008 (Towards 2016):
http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/cl0106_2008rates.xls

So I don't think there should be a strike. The country is spending approx
500m more each week than it is taking in. It can't keep borrowing such sums of money - there has to be cut backs in expenditure and I think the public sector pay bill (and pension bill - which wasn't touch by the pension levy) needs to be one of the areas. Don't necessarily get rid of huge numbers of people, just reduce the wages a bit. Given there is deflation, no wage cut would be a bit like a pay increase!

PomBear

I think they're dead right, and hopefully they'll encourage more to do the same. Atleast they're doing something to try put pressure on a mediocre government, the term political activism springs to mind. Can't see why anyone wouldn't see this as progressive

nuac

I do not think public servants should go on strike. Most have reasonable working conditions, a certain job, and great pensions.

PomBear

nuac wrote: »

I do not think public servants should go on strike. Most have reasonable working conditions, a certain job, and great pensions.

Yes but they are receiving unneeded pay cuts like the rest of us and worried about their jobs. Many of whom have received pay cuts already and are gonna get f**ked over in this budget. Wouldn't you be angry? Can you blame them?

mikemac

jimmmy wrote: »

As a foreigner said to me yesterday . "ze public service in Ireland , Mein Gott, ze are paid so much, are zey mad ? All zey will do is cost the country millions".

jimmy, you must be the friendliest man in Ireland, you know people from everywhere! With contacts like yours you could be a success at anything

Thanks for sharing this foreigners opinion. I've certainly read many of your other posts with "Now I have a friend that ....."

kangaroo

As I understand it, we're not supposed to have a debate in this thread, just give your reason for your vote. So I won't reply and think other people should try to avoid posting more than one post.

zootroid

Do I support the strike? Absolutely not. The country simply can't continue to borrow 20 billion a year. Cuts must be made everywhere, public sector pay and numbers, and social welfare.

All this talk of what's fair, who caused the recession etc is irrelevant. The country can't afford it. That's the bottom line.

DeVore

I normally support workers rights and certainly unions in developing countries but we cant continue with a situation where no one can be fired, massive pay excesses in certain quarters and no measure of work-output. Thats absolutely ridiculous.

We need this strike to happen because its the start of Irelands second civil war in a way. We need to break the unions and radically root-and-branch reform the PS. Starting with the healthcare executives and the management.

Sorry, but its true.

DeV.

Bert Hanley

Maybe they have a point but screwing the rest of the country wont help fix the problems.
have jsut comeback from Switzerland where services are amazing but public servants get LESS than ours and they have performance related pay too.
funny how you all want all the benefits of the private sector without any of the risks.
come on lads...grow up and let the country get off its knees before giving it a kicking.

Munsterbloke

My wife is a Civil Servant, Previously there were 2 people in her department, my wife working 5 days the other 4. She was transfered and replaced with a girl who worked 2 days. She has since left and has not replaced. This now means that my wife has to do 9 days work in 5 days, or put another way increased her producivity by 80%. No employer or union would ask any worker to strive to acheive this target, but she does.
There are many other Public Servants in similar situations. I beleive that they are right to strike. If the Government gets away with pay cuts and changes in Terms and Conditions, it will make way for employeers to do the same. Private sector workers need to support the Public Sector, in the long term they will protect themselves.

Riskymove

Bert Hanley wrote: »

have jsut comeback from Switzerland where services are amazing but public servants get LESS than ours and they have performance related pay too.

30,000 demonstrate over crisis and public services
1 October 2009
The VPOD/SSP public services federation took part in the demonstration of over 30,000 people in Bern on 21 September. Trade unions had organised the march in protest at attempts by employers and the government to make workers pay for the crisis. The VPOD/SSP stressed the need to maintain public services particularly at a time of recession and called for measures to improve public services such as an investment in improved childcare. Read more at > VPOD (DE) And at > SSP (FR)

bridgitt

nuac wrote: »

I do not think public servants should go on strike. Most have reasonable working conditions, a certain job, and great pensions.

+1

alastair

Munsterbloke wrote: »

My wife is a Civil Servant, Previously there were 2 people in her department, my wife working 5 days the other 4. She was transfered and replaced with a girl who worked 2 days. She has since left and has not replaced. This now means that my wife has to do 9 days work in 5 days, or put another way increased her producivity by 80%. No employer or union would ask any worker to strive to acheive this target, but she does.
There are many other Public Servants in similar situations. I beleive that they are right to strike. If the Government gets away with pay cuts and changes in Terms and Conditions, it will make way for employeers to do the same. Private sector workers need to support the Public Sector, in the long term they will protect themselves.

A few points that come to mind:

1. Have you wife's hours worked per week actually changed at all?
2. How do we know that your wife's workload in the two-person workplace was actually fully productive?
3. If your wife is indeed tasked with an unacceptable productivity goal, and fails to achieve it, what are the consequences?
4. I don't think being asked for additional productivity on a salary freeze / pay cut is exactly news to many in the private sector.
5. How have your wife's employment terms and conditions changed?

diverdriver

This now means that my wife has to do 9 days work in 5 days, or put another way increased her producivity by 80%.

One of the problems with the public service is that all too often there are ten people doing a job that only requires five. Without knowing the circumstances it could be that they don't actually need 2 people doing the job. Or maybe they do. Then what they really need is to transfer in one of the surplus staff from another department. In the private sector that's what would happen only there are often no surplus staff because surplus staff get laid off.

The point is that if what you say is true then it's impossible to do the job properly and they need someone there part time. If not then your wife has increased her productivity by 80% but she wasn't working very hard until then.

My last job was in a big multinational. When I started it was a two person job but they were kept busy. The work declined and I ended up doing it alone but it was non stop, literally non stop to the point where I skipped breaks. The managers in their genius decided to merge my job and the previous step. It was impossible and I refused as I was leaving anyway. My replacement, an excellent woman tried very hard to do both. It was impossible and eventually she refused too.

If your wife is in the same predicament then she should call a halt. If she still has time for breaks and doesn't work late then frankly it's a one woman job.

heebusjeebus

Munsterbloke wrote: »

This now means that my wife has to do 9 days work in 5 days, or put another way increased her producivity by 80%.

I'm in the private sector and to cut costs our team has been nearly halved in the last 9 months even though we're still as busy as ever (I'm multi-tasking as is write this ).
We didn't complain or strike, we got on with the job to ensure our company sees the end of this recession. I don't know if I'll have this job next year but I'm going to work as hard as I can to keep it.
Can you see the parallels between my employer and your wife's? The PS need a change in attitude and cannot expect to breeze through the recession without taking a hit.

Martin 2

The OP asked the question are the Unions right to strike today but I'd prefer to give my opinion on the question, is an individual Union member right to strike today?

- If the individual is striking against pay cuts in the public service, then I would say no. There is no choice but to make cuts given the government deficit and that we are well paid compared to our EU15 equivalents. Additionally pay cuts would also go some way to restoring Irish competitiveness which will ultimately help to reduce unemployment. I'm not against increasing tax rates but only where they are likely to give increased returns, however increasing taxes can only be done conjunction with public service pay cuts, not instead of.

- If an individual is striking as a way of expressing anger with the government and our/their current predicament then I would say okay. Anger is a natural and often necessary transitionary step before acceptance of a reality; in this case, that cuts are unavoidable. Venting that anger in a controlled fashion such as a strike is preferable to suppressing it.

For the record, I am a public servant and I'm working today.

nesf

Martin 2 wrote: »

- If an individual is striking as a way of expressing anger with the government and our/their current predicament then I would say okay. Anger is a natural and often necessary transitionary step before acceptance of a reality; in this case, that cuts are unavoidable. Venting that anger in a controlled fashion such as a strike is preferable to suppressing it.

For the record, I am a public servant and I'm working today.

What about venting it in large public demonstrations like the Marches that were held? Surely this is the best solution, no disruption to public services but no one is left in any doubt over whether the public sector workers are angry about the pay cuts and the state of the country in general?

Martin 2

nesf wrote: »

What about venting it in large public demonstrations like the Marches that were held? Surely this is the best solution, no disruption to public services but no one is left in any doubt over whether the public sector workers are angry about the pay cuts and the state of the country in general?

Agreed, that would be more considerate but the unions seem to want a mixture of mass demonstrations and strikes

.

Nightwish

I'm a public sector worker and I don't agree with any of the strikes. I'm not in any union. I find the rhetoric they spew to be embarrassing to be honest. I work in a department where I am doing my own work and the work of a person on maternity leave. To be honest I wont complain as my job is not secure. I don't have permanent tenure. I will have to go unpaid leave again if this second pointless strike goes ahead.

Sizzler

Munsterbloke wrote: »

My wife is a Civil Servant, Previously there were 2 people in her department, my wife working 5 days the other 4. She was transfered and replaced with a girl who worked 2 days. She has since left and has not replaced. This now means that my wife has to do 9 days work in 5 days, or put another way increased her producivity by 80%. No employer or union would ask any worker to strive to acheive this target, but she does.
There are many other Public Servants in similar situations. I beleive that they are right to strike. If the Government gets away with pay cuts and changes in Terms and Conditions, it will make way for employeers to do the same. Private sector workers need to support the Public Sector, in the long term they will protect themselves.

At the end of the day she cant and wont be fired. She gets paid for a 35 hour week(?), thats all she needs to do, simple.

If its too much apply for a job in the private sector and see if it gets any easier and report back to us and let us know?

nesf

Right, thread closed and unstuck as no more good can come from it.