Think my mate might be Schizophrenic

LegacyUser

(Just so you know, I'm not seeking medical advice or anything like it, just general advice on whether I should say something to his family or to himself because this isn't exactly a clear cut case)

I've a friend who has always been a bit of a 'character' but never really had any major social problems; though in the last 3 years or so all of our social circle has noticed a very definate change in this person. I know all people change from the ages of 18-21, the formative years and all that but I think there is something wrong with this guy but I just don't know what to do. The major change is that he has become much more introverted, mirthless, flat (As in constantly apathetic) and to put it short - rather strange. He laughs at inopportune moments and always complains about being seriously self conscious and anxious. We wonder if he's hearing voices in his head, but I don't think he does to be honest, this is the only reason why I haven't told his mother what I suspect (I only suspect he might be schizophrenic, I'm not a pyschiatrist he may have nothing) Nobody wants to say anything to him about it, but basically everyone says he's mad behind his back (I don't incidentally, he's been one of my best friends since primary school) Not in a particularly bad way but you know what I mean - innocuous gossip over pints or whatever.

I think its most noticable when he's taken weed (Which thankfully he stopped doing) He didn't do that much but even two or three drags would set him off. He would get panic attacks, really fidgety and he would look at you reaaaaaaly strangely, like the lights were completely off. He mumbles like hell when he's on it and to be honest he sounds delerious, nothing he says makes much sense. But he's always saying things like 'I've worked it out' or 'I see what you mean... no, I really see what you mean' Like he's analysing simple statements ten times over and then some.

He's probably the most intelligent person I know, he's a big reader and when you get talking about something he's passionate about he will go on and on and on, like a walking talking encyclopedia. And his reasoning abilities are phenonomal - let me just say he's doing a college course which requires a lot of very complex thought (Philosophy and politics), and he's right up there at the top of his class (Don't want to give away any private info.)

So yeah, I'm a bit worried for him and I don't know whether I'm over-reacting or whether he's just a genius - In his case the line between genius and madness is very tender... - what do you think I should do? Should I tell him what I think? I wouldn't consider this normally but he's been acting especially strange lately (Like recently he's put on a very strange walk, and he mutters to himself nearly all the time) and I know he's anxious about the way he is, and I'm guessing he knows himself something is up, but really he could just as easily be in a world of his own, thinking he's fine and dandy but he's clearly not.

I should emphasis that I don't think he would be capable of hurting anyone (Never been in a fight in his life), so thats not a worry of mine. I'm more worried about him hurting himself.

Wibbs

As the OP wrote "Just so you know, I'm not seeking medical advice or anything like it, just general advice on whether I should say something to his family or to himself because this isn't exactly a clear cut case", so NO ONLINE DIAGNOSIS OR Sigmund Freuds please. Just if anyone has a handle on what the OP should do on a practical level, people he could talk to etc. Thanks.

Eve_Dublin

Hi OP, as you and Wibbs said, I don´t want to do any online diagnosis here but I have some experience of being in your position. One of my best friends was diagnosed with Schizophrenia about 15 years ago when we were both teenagers. Again, I don´t want to diagnose here but pretty much everything you described in your post applies to her when she´s having an episode and like your friend, she could well be the cleverest person I know....borderline genius I would say. BUT (and a big but) your friend´s mental state could be something totally different. It´s dangerous to diagnose like that, particularly when it comes to something so complexed like the mind. It´s not so black and white as a broken leg, say.

I won´t go into detail but my friend has got worse over the years and went through a particularly bad episode during the Summer to the point where she was putting herself and others in serious danger and had to be admitted into a psychiatric hospital. We always try and keep an eye out for her and look out for signs that an episode is about to begin and get her help before it spirals (although I´m not living in the country at the moment, she´s a constant worry for me). Your friend might not be schizophrenic but if you are in any way concerned about him, you MUST approach his parents. It´s up to his parents to deal with this and this should be your first step. It does sound like SOMETHING is up with your friend alright and you need to take action for his safety and others.

opinion guy

jim200 wrote: »

(Like recently he's put on a very strange walk, and he mutters to himself nearly all the time)

Can I ask what you mean by a very strange walk ? Has anyone noticed ? Has he explained it any ?

Reading all that you've said, my gut instinct is that you should talk to your friend. I DON'T think you should mention schizophrenia at all. I think what you should do is ask him is is everything ok, is he under a lot of stress aor is there anything bothering him that he'd like to talk about. If this gets you nowhere then I think ask him a little more direclty.....something like - 'well its just that you know, you don't seem like your old self and I was a bit worried about you, for example, your walking strangely lately - why's that.'

basically what I'm saying is gently come at that his behaviour has changed and is a little odd. Kind of with the aim to see is he aware of all this himself (technically - does he have insight into his own changed behaviour). If he responds well to this approach, he may well tell you - oh X,Y,Z has been super stressing me out, and I kinda twisted my knee etc etc

If he responds badly and doesn't seem to have any insight then dont push things. Then i tihnk it might be time to talk to his mother. I wouldn't go throwing around the schizophrenic word with her - in fact i\d avoid it. She may not react well to someone saying this and it could be many things apart from schizophrenia. But you could take the approach of 'I'm worried about him for reasons x,y,z' see what she says. If she doens't say it then maybe say to her that you think he shoudl see his GP. You could also talk to your own GP for advice as to how to approach it, but I don't think he/she could do anything cause you are not a close relative and your friend may not be their patient.

I think thou you need to realise that your role is limited here. You can't get too drawn in. Because ultimately your friend is an adult and you are not responsible for him.

Hmmmm
[quote}I should emphasis that I don't think he would be capable of hurting anyone (Never been in a fight in his life), so thats not a worry of mine. I'm more worried about him hurting himself. [/quote]

Why are you talking about him hurting himself ? Has he given you reason to think he might hurt himself ? Not all people who are acting strange are intent on hurting themselves. If you do think he is an immenent danger to himself (or anyone else for that matter) then you should get involved. Phone his mum, his GP, the guards if necessary.

extrinzic

Can’t say anything concrete about your friend, but I know somebody whose sibling had Schizophrenia. This person’s behaviour was getting more erratic as time went by, until they ended up in a mental institution for a brief spell. He is very imaginative, the creative type. If he saw a movie he liked it would make a huge impression on him. For a period of about a year, he became more withdrawn. He would try to keep a lid on things, but would blurt out the most bizarre stuff when he drank, or smoked. There was a lot of muttering, paranoia etc. The weed and alcohol really used to accentuate his symptoms. His family really couldn’t deal with him at the time. It was only after things came to a head and he was confronted that he opened up and asked for help. The time he spent in the institution really helped him to wind down, and let the aggravating substances, such as drink and drugs leave his system. He really improved with the right help.

LegacyUser

Hi, OP here, thanks for the responces.

I was drunk last night when I made that post (Just back from the pub) and so I might have exaggerated a little (Though I'm amazed how could my spelling was, all considered!) I worry about this guy a lot because he does come come out with some of the strangest things. A couple of weeks ago we were talking about the future, about someday settling down with kids etc. and we started talking about kids being 'our legacy' and he just looked at us with complete dismay and asked us 'why would continuing a virus be considered a legacy'. it doesn't sound as strange when I type it but you really had to be there, there was such conviction in his eyes and he looked a little glazed. These little 'moments' seem to happen quite a lot. Another time he tried to explain why human beings couldn't possibly be real because all that we know exists in our minds and that anything outside our minds could simply be a mass delusion, hence that there mightn't be such an objective thing called 'reality'. Again the super convicted look and one of my mates (Who's a bit of a clever guy himself) really took him on over that idea and made him back down (A very clever argument, can't remember the ins and outs) Either way he was very angry once the other guy argued against him and just kept on saying that he wouldn't know anyway.

I was talking to him today and he said he had a twisted ankle all week, so that explains the funny walk.

Maybe I'm getting overly concerned about all of this, there isn't any clear cut evidence that he has anything at all, maybe I was just reading one wikipedia article about schizophrenia too many and have convinced myself that he might have it. I do know that he has bad anxiety and paranoia though. Keep the stories coming in because I think I see some similarities but don't want to kick up a storm in case I'm wrong. I've asked him before if he was depressed and he said that he wasn't, he gave a typically wise guy response and said its the world thats depressed - he was ****ing euphoric.

pisslips

In fairness this might just be his character. Like he's obviously very self concious and maybe low self esteem and sure like the rest of us he partakes in flights of fantasy, i.e. his new walk and character. if he's aware of his behavioural change, it might be just some kind of game or fantasy he's playing out. He might be the type to experiment with new personas. Some people are just different, they have a different perspective on things, they don't care about normal things like possesions or relationships with other people, it can be a very lonely and depressing road though. It's up to him though, he has the choice, you can just help him by including him in your social circle as best you can and being someone he can trust 100%.

Having said all that, you should check to see if he eats and sleeps properly and how much he drinks. He could spiral into a serious depression of his own making, if he doesn't take care of the basics.

[-0-]

All geniuses are/were mad. He sounds like a great guy and you obviously care very much about him. If I were you I would try to keep the conversation going with him, and maybe try to get him to cut back on the weed a small bit. Watch him closely for the next while and if you see any behaviour that is harmful either to himself or others then I would intervene. Just my 2c...

LegacyUser

Cutting out the weed altogether is the absolute most important thing. There are proven links between smoking weed as a teenager (especially under 15) through until early twenties and schizophrenia. I remember reading that something like 10% of all people who fit into this category have a psychotic episode at some point in this time period. Its to do with the weed triggering latent tendencies in the indivudual, so if your friend is already experiencing anxiety and apathy then... Id go so far as to say that if your gut feeling is that he expresses some of the symptoms of schizophrenia (and your OP makes it sound very likely that he does) then unless he completely stops smoking weed/drinking heavily that you need to confront him or someone who will prevent him from possibly causing himself serious mental harm.

Fair play for looking out for him, I know plenty of people that would, as you say, just be laughing at him or ignoring it

Didymus

[quote=jim200;63002974 Nobody wants to say anything to him about it, but basically everyone says he's mad behind his back (I don't incidentally, he's been one of my best friends since primary school) Not in a particularly bad way but you know what I mean - innocuous gossip over pints or whatever.

[/quote]

I would hope that you stick up for him in these situations. People need friends to make them look good in situations like this, you seeing the good side to him and standing up for him may sway how much people feel they can pick on him. Isn't that how friendships work? You've got his back so to speak. If his friends can't accept the way he is what hope does he have?

Maybe I'm playing devils advocate here, but you seem to be jumping to lots of conclusions about him, perhaps based on what other people are saying so casually over pints. His funny walk for example - a prime example that perhaps, just perhaps, you are drawing the wrong conclusions about him. I mean, you also say "We wonder if he's hearing voices in his head, but I don't think he does to be honest,". I just sounds like everyone, including you, has already diagnosed him without anyone giving him the respect to say anything to him

Can you imagine if your best friend told your parents that they thought you had mantal problems??? Give the dude a bit of respect and approach him first.

nomad4life

[/quote] never really had any major social problems; though in the last 3 years or so all of our social circle has noticed a very definate change in this person.

The major change is that he has become much more introverted, mirthless, flat (As in constantly apathetic) and to put it short - rather strange.

He laughs at inopportune moments and always complains about being seriously self conscious and anxious.

We wonder if he's hearing voices in his head, ...basically everyone says he's mad behind his back

I think its most noticable when he's taken weed He would get panic attacks, really fidgety and he would look at you reaaaaaaly strangely, like the lights were completely off. He mumbles like hell when he's on it and to be honest he sounds delerious, nothing he says makes much sense. But he's always saying things like 'I've worked it out' or 'I see what you mean... no, I really see what you mean' Like he's analysing simple statements ten times over and then some.

So yeah, I'm a bit worried for him ....he mutters to himself nearly all the time) and I know he's anxious about the way he is, and I'm guessing he knows himself something is up, but really he could just as easily be in a world of his own, thinking he's fine and dandy but he's clearly not.

[/quote]

Hi Op
I think its great that you are concerned about your friend and honestly I think you have a reason to be. The fact that these odd behaviors are new over the last couple years is a big red flag. If he had always been an eccentric personality then it wouldn't be as concerning. Also I'm sure you have other friends who are bright or a bit odd but there is something about this friend that has given you and your other friends a gut instinct that something is wrong and I wouldn't ignore that. You've described a lot of characteristics of something that certainly could be mental illness and definitely worth an assessment. If it is a mental illness like schizophrenia early treatment can make a huge difference in long term outcomes.

I'd start by mentioning to him how much he has changed and point to a few specific ways in which he is really different. As you said he may be aware he is acting or feeling strange but not wanting to come right out and say it. Putting it out there in a non judgmental way gives him the option to say something. Even if you can get him to go see a doctor to address the withdrawn / anxious / panic attacks part that might be less threatening than going because of voices etc...

If he is resistant to any intervention, I don't think it would hurt to mention to his family that he has changed alot and his friends are worried. They may not see him as often if he is away at school and it is often friends who actually know first when someone develops a mental illness, especially at uni age.


Good luck and its great he has you as a friend who cares about him.

implausible

First of all I'd to say how lucky this guy is to have a mate like the OP, who is genuinely watching out and being concerned for him.

I had a similar situation with a friend in college, except it was bi-polar disease. My friend began acting strangely over a period of two years (playing guitar in the middle of the night, euphorically talking about god, spending long times on his own, getting obsessed with various topics), but the change was so gradual, I guess we didn't pay the heed we should have. It began to annoy everyone and eventually my friend was living with a completely different set of people. The problem only came to a head with a serious psychotic episode.

Basically, my point is-don't wait until your friend has an episode to do something. Is there a history in the family? You can approach his mother, but I wouldn't mention the S word, maybe just casually ask if he's ok, you think he's acting a bit strangely that you're wondering if there is something going on at home. Most importantly, keep an eye on him.

sam34

OP, i'm not going to get into online diagnosing, or "my friend had condition x/y/z and was juss like this" anecdotes with you, but what you have posted is enough to raise significant concern for your friend's wellbeing.

i think you should discuss it with his family, without mentioning any potential diagnoses, but explain clearly why you are concerned.

it will be hard for his parents to hear, maybe if you're friendly with or just know a brother/suster of his, you could get them involved in the discussion to help teh parents

LegacyUser

Jim200 wrote: »

Hi, OP here, thanks for the responces.

I was drunk last night when I made that post (Just back from the pub) and so I might have exaggerated a little (Though I'm amazed how could my spelling was, all considered!) I worry about this guy a lot because he does come come out with some of the strangest things. A couple of weeks ago we were talking about the future, about someday settling down with kids etc. and we started talking about kids being 'our legacy' and he just looked at us with complete dismay and asked us 'why would continuing a virus be considered a legacy'. it doesn't sound as strange when I type it but you really had to be there, there was such conviction in his eyes and he looked a little glazed. These little 'moments' seem to happen quite a lot. Another time he tried to explain why human beings couldn't possibly be real because all that we know exists in our minds and that anything outside our minds could simply be a mass delusion, hence that there mightn't be such an objective thing called 'reality'. Again the super convicted look and one of my mates (Who's a bit of a clever guy himself) really took him on over that idea and made him back down (A very clever argument, can't remember the ins and outs) Either way he was very angry once the other guy argued against him and just kept on saying that he wouldn't know anyway.

I was talking to him today and he said he had a twisted ankle all week, so that explains the funny walk.

Maybe I'm getting overly concerned about all of this, there isn't any clear cut evidence that he has anything at all, maybe I was just reading one wikipedia article about schizophrenia too many and have convinced myself that he might have it. I do know that he has bad anxiety and paranoia though. Keep the stories coming in because I think I see some similarities but don't want to kick up a storm in case I'm wrong. I've asked him before if he was depressed and he said that he wasn't, he gave a typically wise guy response and said its the world thats depressed - he was ****ing euphoric.

Hey,

I have first hand experience with Schizophrenia and trust me you say you don't think your friend would hurt anyone, if he has schizophrenia you can't guarantee that. Anyways doesn't sound to me like he's schizophrenic at all. He sounds like he's a genius and might have ideas other people wouldn't even think about. I've often thought about the universe and how we got here and what was here before we existed etc. Does that mean i'm mentally ill??? ... eh no. Sounds to me that you don't get your friend a lot of the time and accuse him of acting strange and if he's as clever as you say maybe he's picked up on this. He probably looks at you with "conviction" because he knows you are judging him or maybe he's frustrated he's no one on his level to have a discussion with about all his theories and ideas. I could be wrong but sounds like your nit picking at everything he does and making it into something much bigger than it is. You said yourself "he walks funny" and he'd hurt his knee. And you were drunk when you wrote this post.

Rantan

jim200 wrote: »

(Just so you know, I'm not seeking medical advice or anything like it, just general advice on whether I should say something to his family or to himself because this isn't exactly a clear cut case)

I've a friend who has always been a bit of a 'character' but never really had any major social problems; though in the last 3 years or so all of our social circle has noticed a very definate change in this person. I know all people change from the ages of 18-21, the formative years and all that but I think there is something wrong with this guy but I just don't know what to do. The major change is that he has become much more introverted, mirthless, flat (As in constantly apathetic) and to put it short - rather strange. He laughs at inopportune moments and always complains about being seriously self conscious and anxious. We wonder if he's hearing voices in his head, but I don't think he does to be honest, this is the only reason why I haven't told his mother what I suspect (I only suspect he might be schizophrenic, I'm not a pyschiatrist he may have nothing) Nobody wants to say anything to him about it, but basically everyone says he's mad behind his back (I don't incidentally, he's been one of my best friends since primary school) Not in a particularly bad way but you know what I mean - innocuous gossip over pints or whatever.

I think its most noticable when he's taken weed (Which thankfully he stopped doing) He didn't do that much but even two or three drags would set him off. He would get panic attacks, really fidgety and he would look at you reaaaaaaly strangely, like the lights were completely off. He mumbles like hell when he's on it and to be honest he sounds delerious, nothing he says makes much sense. But he's always saying things like 'I've worked it out' or 'I see what you mean... no, I really see what you mean' Like he's analysing simple statements ten times over and then some.

He's probably the most intelligent person I know, he's a big reader and when you get talking about something he's passionate about he will go on and on and on, like a walking talking encyclopedia. And his reasoning abilities are phenonomal - let me just say he's doing a college course which requires a lot of very complex thought (Philosophy and politics), and he's right up there at the top of his class (Don't want to give away any private info.)

So yeah, I'm a bit worried for him and I don't know whether I'm over-reacting or whether he's just a genius - In his case the line between genius and madness is very tender... - what do you think I should do? Should I tell him what I think? I wouldn't consider this normally but he's been acting especially strange lately (Like recently he's put on a very strange walk, and he mutters to himself nearly all the time) and I know he's anxious about the way he is, and I'm guessing he knows himself something is up, but really he could just as easily be in a world of his own, thinking he's fine and dandy but he's clearly not.

I should emphasis that I don't think he would be capable of hurting anyone (Never been in a fight in his life), so thats not a worry of mine. I'm more worried about him hurting himself.

To be honest sounds like a perfectly normal dope smoking philosophy student to me. Fair play for looking out for him. Dope will fry your brain if you smoke enough - fact. I am assuming you smoke a bit yourself so maybe you need to have a look at yourself and maybe clear the head for a while. I was a bit alarmed to hear you mention the dodgy new walk was explained by a sprained ankle!! All that philosophy stuff is pretty intense, did a bit in college and anyone who kept it up was a litle "special"
THinking about the state of mankind all day is no good for most normal brains!

LegacyUser

OP, that sounds exactly like me except with engineering instead of politics. I like being a bit eccentric this way. If it was me, and you went and told my mother I was probably schizophrenic without talking to me first, I'd never forgive you.

Wibbs

OK this thread I can see going down more and more the route of armchair shrinkism. So I'm closing it. .