Definitive 100 Discussion - Part 2

beans

Ok, the second ten from the top one hundred as it stands are...

(11) A Nightmare On Elm Street (1984)
(12) Cannibal Holocaust (1980)
(13) Ringu (1998)
(14) Day of the Dead(1985)
(15) Scream 2 (1997)
(16) The Omen (1976)
(17) The Descent (2005)
(18) The Texas Chain Saw Massacre (1974)
(19) The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920)
(20) The Fly (1986)

Some I knew well, and some I'd never heard of; I've seen 9 of the 10 already (yet to see 'Cabinet'), and most I wouldn't have issue with. For the sake of brevity, here are the few I've issue with, and the few that made me think:

KEEP Cannibal Holocaust - I really enjoyed this movie, but I thought at first to call it out, on the basis that it's badly classified here. It's not scary in any way. It doesn't set out to instill fear, in the sense of boogiemen and things going bump in the night. I watched it a second time, and it struck me that just the very reason why it should be included here is because it hits that chord that resonates through so much good horror - the fact that we as humans are infinitely capable of horrendous acts to rival any horror you could imagine. Great flic, deservedly here.

DROP The Descent - I was terribly disappointed with this movie. Maybe I'm getting old and cynical, or maybe the group of protagonists were so utterly unlikable and badly sketched out that, at the end of the day, whether they lived or died mattered not a jot... well I can't tell. I didn't think the setting was used too badly, lots of claustrophobic set pieces used to good effect, and the idea for the nasties was good too - so on the whole you'd wonder how they could have missed. I was left with a heavy disappointment after this, thought the ending was a total cop-out, a nice idea built into a very poor movie. Certainly not top-100 material, perhaps stick it around top-250 somewhere, but really people this is just not a good film.

BIN Scream 2 - I think 'Scream' should be here, but not this. In the same vein that 'Halloween' should be here, but not 'Halloween 2' - it doesn't add anything to the party (now one could argue for 'Season of the Witch' being included for irony's sake, but that's another thread). That said, I enjoyed Halloween 2 and I didn't enjoy this, I just thought it was a lazy frat-horror parody of the original, on a par with some crap like 'Urban Legends', and just ... no. Just no.

And the rest I love. 'Day of the Dead' is my favourite of Romero's Dead movies. Ok I was stoned, but trying to sleep on the couch, back to the television after watching 'Ringu' was an uncomfortable few hours. 'Omen' is my favourite of the franchise.

As for suggestions to fill the two that I would expel - Scream 2 would be far better replaced by something like 'Profundo Rosso' if you want to stick to the same basic genre, and I can't really think of anything for Descent, but do notice that 'Salem's Lot' isn't on here, what the fkcu? How did we let that slip though?

Cactus Col

beans wrote: »

(11) A Nightmare On Elm Street (1984)
(12) Cannibal Holocaust (1980)
(13) Ringu (1998)
(14) Day of the Dead(1985)
(15) Scream 2 (1997)
(16) The Omen (1976)
(17) The Descent (2005)
(18) The Texas Chain Saw Massacre (1974)
(19) The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920)
(20) The Fly (1986)

I would have to agree about Scream 2, it does not belong on this list. The original Scream was fresh, and gave horror movies in the 90's a much needed shot in the arm. The sequel, while not a bad movie, fails to measure up to the original.

For a replacement I would nominate Silence of the Lambs.


The Descent I think certainly deserves a place on the list. It is a helluva scary movie, emphasised suspence at a time when most western horrors tended to be torture porn, remakes of older western movies, or remakes of modern foreign films. The betrayal of friends, the claustrophobia of the caves, and the fear of monsters all worked together to create a terrifying film.

Cannibal Holocaust I would most certainly leave in, it is a prime example of both exploitation movies and the italian horror craze of the 70's / 80's.

Ringu, I'm not a fan, but certainly deserves to be in. Day of the Dead I was unsure about, but after seeing it recently I would tend to keep it in. Each of Romero's original trilogy are very different films, each one more than capable of standing on their own. Unfortunately this film tends to live in Dawn of the Dead's shadows.

c - 13

(11) A Nightmare On Elm Street (1984)
Possibly one of my favorite horror films. I love the concept behind it,the fact that no one is safe in their own dreams. Saw this at a very yong age and it scared the crap out of me - might be why I like it so much

(12) Cannibal Holocaust (1980)
Now while i'm not the biggest fan of this movie I do believe it deserves a place on the list. Screw your Saw and Hostel, some of the scenes in this film made my balls crawl right up inside me to hide. Anyone else not feel sorry for the film makers but did feelsorry for the turtle ?

(13) Ringu (1998)
One of my first introductions to foreign horror, while not on my list of favorites a very god movie in its own rights. Deserves its place.

(14) Day of the Dead(1985)
Ill probably be slated for this but I prefered Night to this one, still a great film though.

(15) Scream 2 (1997)
Like many other posted above I dont think this deserves its place here. I would agree that maybe supercede with scream 1 as it does deserve a mention for reigniting the horror film franchise in the late 90's andreturning it to the mainsteam populace.

(16) The Omen (1976)
Another one of my favorites. I watched it again recently with my g/f - her first time seing it. Amazing how a film over 30 years old can still cause you to cack your jocks

(17) The Descent (2005)
As I said on the thread for Descent 2 - I really dont see the appeal with this film. Didnt enjoy it at all. I can understand it might bother people who have something against narrow spaces. Add in a cast of charachters who are possibly the most annoying bints in recent history, didnt make good viewing for me. Unsure with what i would like it replaced with though. Let me think on that.

(18) The Texas Chain Saw Massacre (1974)
Another classic here, with another Iconic bad guy. Although again not one i revisit regularly definately deserving its spot on the list.

(19) The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920)
Havent got my hands on a copy of this as of yet but looking forward to seeing it as i'veheard lots about it.

(20) The Fly (1986)
I saw this at a young enough age and cant remember anything about it. Needs a rewatch I think.

Otis Driftwood

(11) A Nightmare On Elm Street (1984)
IMO this is Cravens masterpiece,disregard the increasingly cheesey sequels,this is an outstanding movie.

(12) Cannibal Holocaust (1980)
Deodatas classic and the definitive cannibal movie.Every serious horror fan needs to see this in its uncensored form.

(13) Ringu (1998)
Love this movie and its the key example of how far ahead Asian horror cinema was of the states.I say was as I now think that continental Europe currently holds the crown.

(14) Day of the Dead(1985)
My personal favourite zombie movie and Savinis finest hour.Proof positive that CGI has no place in horror cinema.

(15) Scream 2 (1997)
Bullsh1t.

(16) The Omen (1976)
Watched this again recently.Its a bit dated but still good fun.

(17) The Descent (2005)
Hugely over rated IMO but not a bad movie.

(18) The Texas Chain Saw Massacre (1974)
Up there with Halloween as one of my all time favourites.Easily one of the most iconic movies never mind horror movies of all time.Outstanding.

(19) The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920)
A great example of what can be done with virtually no resources.

(20) The Fly (1986)
Moving and horrifying in equal measures,this is Cronenberg at his very best.

uncleoswald

Yeah drop Scream 2 for the original, I think we will all agree with that. No problem with the rest. Day, The Omen and The Decent (apart from the stunning 20 minutes in the middle) probably wouldn't make my personal list but I can't argue with their inclusion here.

nedtheshed wrote: »

(14) Day of the Dead(1985)
Proof positive that CGI has no place in horror cinema.

hear hear.

Cactus Col

nedtheshed wrote: »

(12) Cannibal Holocaust (1980)
Deodatas classic and the definitive cannibal movie.Every serious horror fan needs to see this in its uncensored form.

I've seen the uncensored form, and I'd disagree with that. The animal slaughtering does not actually add anything to the film, except maybe a touch of irony.

Decuc500

I haven't seen Cannibal Holocaust so I can't comment on it being on the list but I just don't need to see it.

The slaughter of animals has no place in art and it certainly doesn't make a horror movie more 'hardcore' or essential. It just smacks of desperation from the film makers to create controversy.

I'd agree with most opinions about the rest of the films on the list especially A Nightmare on Elm Street. A classic. Normally I don't mind remakes but this one looks totally redundant.

Necronomicon

I agree with Decuc500. I've no intention of seeing Cannibal Holocaust on general principle, because genuine animal slaughter is something I most definitely do not need to see. The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari is the only other I haven't seen on the list.

I said it in the main thread that I don't particularly agree with dumping people's picks, but if it's general consensus then I don't want to be Buzz Killington I think The Descent deserves its place, if there is one to go then I'd agree it has to be Scream 2.

trustno1

Necronomicon wrote: »

I agree with Decuc500. I've no intention of seeing Cannibal Holocaust on general principle, because genuine animal slaughter is something I most definitely do not need to see. The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari is the only other I haven't seen on the list.

I said it in the main thread that I don't particularly agree with dumping people's picks, but if it's general consensus then I don't want to be Buzz Killington I think The Descent deserves its place, if there is one to go then I'd agree it has to be Scream 2.

+ 1, haven't seen Cannibal Holocaust and will probably avoid it too - dying to see The Cabinet of Dr Caligari now after I read a few reviews on it.

I personally think that The Descent should be kept as its rare that a horror would make me jump in my seat - which this successfully managed to do twice!..

And definitely Scream 2 to go... I would suggest Drag Me to Hell as a possible replacement..

Otis Driftwood

The thing that people seem to forget/dont know about CH is that it is Deodatas commentry on the exploitation of on indigenous people by makers of "mondo" movies,particularly Jacopetti and Prosperi,who made the Mondo Cane series of movies.There have long been rumours that they staged a number of scenes by either coercing or bribing the "stars" of the movies,particularly as the series went on with Afirca Addio and Addio Zio Tom in order to get as shocking as possible footage.

Minus the animal killing the film would lose some of its punch IMO.

niallon

(11) A Nightmare On Elm Street (1984)

Well...I nominated this one so it stays!

(12) Cannibal Holocaust (1980)

Controversial as a film and an entry here it seems but I think it cannot be denied it is an important film, not necessarily from a legacy point of view or anything but that it should be seen by horror fans.

(13) Ringu (1998)

Personally I don't get the Jap horrors but of all that I've seen I'd definitely put this top of the list.

(14) Day of the Dead(1985)

Classic in every sense of the world, especially sue to the tragedy of how much more epic it could've been

(15) Scream 2 (1997)

Nope, can't agree here. +1 to whoever suggested Drag Me To Hell as a replacement, don't think it was in the original 100 here. Scream 2 is just an abomination compared to the great genre spinner that was Scream

(16) The Omen (1976)

Yup, classic. It's just one in the same vein as Halloween or TCM, has to be in here.

(17) The Descent (2005)

I thoroughly enjoyed this film and it managed to give me a few decent scares too, I'm always surprised by how many people didn't like it. Though I'm sure my utmost respect for Marshall as a genre understanding director probably helps.

(18) The Texas Chain Saw Massacre (1974)

See The Omen

(19) The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920)

And I've been caught out, haven't seen this I'm ashamed to say. I'll have to track down a copy.

(20) The Fly (1986)

Similar to the Alien debate, is it horror or sci-fi? Unlike Alien I would say this is a horror with a hint of sci fi, in the hands of any other director it would lean far more towards sci fi but as it is, maggot babies, knobs in jars and acidic vomit is the stuff of pure horror!

MudSkipper

(11) A Nightmare On Elm Street (1984)
Freddy Krueger... nuff said

(12) Cannibal Holocaust (1980)
Have not seen it, but if there's one shockumentary that should be on it then this is probably it

(13) Ringu (1998)
Classic, definitely the strongest of the trilogy and introduced a lot of people to japanese horror

(14) Day of the Dead(1985)
Another classic

(15) Scream 2 (1997)
ummm no, probably is interesting if its your introduction to horror, but there's a lot more and better out there

(16) The Omen (1976)
Looks a bit dated, but still a classic.. up there with the exorcist

(17) The Descent (2005)
Thoroughly enjoyed this as well with some decent scares (I've no interest in the second one tho!)

(18) The Texas Chain Saw Massacre (1974)
Leatherface :eek:

(19) The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920)
Watched this the other night, very enjoyable and deserves it's spot. Dont think it's aged as well as nosferatu tho

(20) The Fly (1986)
Another classic and well deserved spot

MudSkipper

c - 13 wrote: »

(17) The Descent (2005)
As I said on the thread for Descent 2 - I really dont see the appeal with this film. Didnt enjoy it at all. I can understand it might bother people who have something against narrow spaces. Add in a cast of charachters who are possibly the most annoying bints in recent history, didnt make good viewing for me. Unsure with what i would like it replaced with though. Let me think on that.

You should check out 'five across the eyes' .... could not watch it without fast forwarding through their inane chattering

MudSkipper

As for replacements, I'd suggest a separate thread where we can all throw in our suggestions and at the end once we've voted off a number of movies we can do a poll with movies from the suggestion thread to vote in the new ones

Fysh

I like Mudskipper's suggestion of having a thread at the end of the list discussions where we decide what should be added to the list to fill whatever gaps we end up with.

As for this list of ten, I'm with the "bin scream 2" mob. I don't think I bothered watching all of The Descent (despite being a Neil Marshall fan) what I did see didn't interest me much. I'd rate Dog Soldiers much more highly, personally.

Glad to see The Cabinet of Dr Caligari getting some love too must rewatch it sometime soon, it's been a while.

uncleoswald

Realised I probably should have made more of an effort then my last post.

(11) A Nightmare On Elm Street (1984)
Actually saw this when I was 6 years old and, along with The Fog, is the reason that I grew up a horror fanatic. The imagery in this movie has stayed with me since I saw it, but I don't really recall been too freaked out by it at the time, maybe I was too young. Freddie Kruger's humour in this is menacing and not funny like in the camp sequels.


(12) Cannibal Holocaust (1980)
Like Last House in the first ten I think CH's place is justified simply as a museum piece. Its legendary status and influence is more important then the amateurish production. It deserves to be on the list but I won't watch it again as the animal cruelty is sickening.


(13) Ringu (1998)
My favourite horror of the last 20 years, possibly of all time. No other has come close to giving me the shivers in the same way. Japanese horror at the time had a ability to make you feel nervous while nothing was really going on in the same way John Carpenter could in his heyday.


(14) Day of the Dead(1985)
This is so close to been the epic zombie film I dream of. That it falls short is not Romero's fault but after the fantastic beginning it falls away and is the lesser of the three Dead (the ones I count) films.


(15) Scream 2 (1997)
Why are people mentioning Drag Me To Hell as a replacement when surely it has to be Scream? Horror was a walking dead genre in the States until that shot in the arm. And as a great slasher movie it deserves its place on its own merits (Scream that is not Scream 2.)

Edit: Okay Scream IS on the list so scratch the above as I clearly don't know what I'm talking about. I'm still waiting for someone to defend Scream 2's inclusion though.


(16) The Omen (1976)
I never really like this movie until I'm watching it. I forget that it is fun even if it isn't remotely scary. Because of its influence I can't really argue with its place but if one sacred cow could be slaughtered this would be my choice.


(17) The Descent (2005)
There is a period in this movie that has an edge of your seat intensity that can match any other movie on this list for a feeling of dread. Its after the Hollyoaks beginning and before the comic book action bits. Don't think that's enough to make it a classic though.


(18) The Texas Chain Saw Massacre (1974)
I think its Leatherface's walk that does it for me. Its the way he stomps around with no coordination that lets you know that he is missing one too many chromosomes. A violent child in the body of a giant, there is no mind there to reason or empathise with. He wouldn't even know that what he is doing is wrong, only that it is fun.


(19) The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (1920)
Hardly going to make anyone hide behind the couch in this day and age but that can't be the only way we judge horror. And if you haven't seen it you can at least be sure that your favourite horror directors have.


(20) The Fly (1986)
Possibly the smartest gross-out movie ever made. Watched it recently and wished they still made horror like this, for adults not adolescents.

trustno1

uncleoswald wrote: »

(15) Scream 2 (1997)
Why are people mentioning Drag Me To Hell as a replacement when surely it has to be Scream? Horror was a walking dead genre in the States until that shot in the arm. And as a great slasher movie it deserves its place on its own merits (Scream that is not Scream 2.)

Scream is already on the main list - Number 78

uncleoswald

trustno1 wrote: »

Scream is already on the main list - Number 78

Ah...

My bad. Cheers.

Necronomicon

Fysh wrote: »

I don't think I bothered watching all of The Descent (despite being a Neil Marshall fan) what I did see didn't interest me much. I'd rate Dog Soldiers much more highly, personally.

Ah you're missing out, the shit only really hits the fan at about the 3/4 mark of the film

niallon

How about say we add a poll to this thread asking for yes or no votes to throw out any of the films being contested so far in this ten, give it an expiry date of this friday maybe? Then as suggested, another thread to run over a week long period to vote in the replacements, again being decided with a poll?

MudSkipper

To keep it tidy, I'd suggest two threads:

One thread to keep track of the outcome of the discussion threads, the ones to definitely be removed (i.e. scream 2) and the ones that are contended and should possibly go to poll (i.e. the descent). Once all 100 have been discussed this will have all the removals in it.

Second thread to list suggestions (i.e. drag me to hell) for filling up the empty spaces that we will undoubtedly have at the end of the discussion. This thread should just list films (not replace X with Y arguments) and maybe use the thanks button to determine which ones get in.... i.e. most thanked suggestion gets in first, then using a poll in case of a tie for the last free spot.

Combining those results with the 100 we have now and presto the definitive boards 100 horror movies is complete :eek:

beans

sounds like a good method for sorting out the 100... I just came up with a wonderful replacement for Scream 2, a slasher named 'Tenebre'. I'll be sure to pop it into the appropriate thread - it's deadly! My favourite Argento movie, of those I've seen anyway - kept me guessing, and ends on a great note.