George Lee on Child Benefit

dresden8

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/ireland/fg-urges-government-caution-over-child-benefit-433836.html

He's cited an example of one man living in Dublin, with a mortgage of €1m.

Mr Lee said: "He's got effectively, by the time he's finished everything, €200 a week to support the two kids - his wife

Is it official Fine Gael policy to continue to pay child benefit so some idiot can keep up the repayments on his €1m mortgage?

I note George points out he is a public sector worker (purely for you jimmmy and irish_bob), but seriously, what is Georgie boy up to?

dvpower

dresden8 wrote: »

... but seriously, what is Georgie boy up to?

Its called looking after your constituents.

Zynks

Sure the guy doesn't come across as the smartest, but should he be let starve 'cause he is an 'idiot'? Should we make mortgage and IQ sizes pre-reqs for support, tax breaks and allowances? That would set an interesting precedent.

By the way, repayments for a €1m go up almost €200 a week if interest rates are raised by 1%. There are many people that close to not being able to afford food and heating.

I have no idea how this is going to end, but it ain't pretty.

Dannyboy83

His wife is in the public sector, not the man himself. (I think - crappy syntax tbh!)

The point he was making is that despite his huge income (and huge tax contributions, I expect, to able to afford a mortgage like that), at first glance you think hes loaded, but hes actually poor in real terms.


I don't have an answer, its a dilemma. (and a rather unique one I would guess).

irish_bob

dresden8 wrote: »

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/ireland/fg-urges-government-caution-over-child-benefit-433836.html



Is it official Fine Gael policy to continue to pay child benefit so some idiot can keep up the repayments on his €1m mortgage?

I note George points out he is a public sector worker (purely for you jimmmy and irish_bob), but seriously, what is Georgie boy up to?

george lee has been for the most part a big disapointment since he got elected , soft on the public sector , soft on every topic tbh , populist in the extreme

Guy:Incognito

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

His wife is in the public sector, not the man himself. (I think - crappy syntax tbh!)

The point he was making is that despite his huge income (and huge tax contributions, I expect, to able to afford a mortgage like that), at first glance you think hes loaded, but hes actually poor in real terms.

.

It's his own fault if he's actually poor. He's overstretched himslef with the mortgage. That's no one s fault but his own. It's not up to the state to pay him €160 or whatever it is a month in child benefit because of this.

mikemac

dresden8 wrote: »

Is it official Fine Gael policy to continue to pay child benefit so some idiot can keep up the repayments on his €1m mortgage?

Look at the constituency he represents, any TD has to look after their local support.
Of course only a small minority there will have mortgages that large but it's enough to make their local TD push that issue

Dannyboy83

Stekelly wrote: »

It's his own fault if he's actually poor. He's overstretched himslef with the mortgage. That's no one s fault but his own. It's not up to the state to pay him €160 or whatever it is a month in child benefit because of this.

I don't disagree with you.
He was silly & bought into the Celtic Pyramid.

However, you don't get a €1 million mortgage by being unskilled.
He is paying for countless other people's social welfare & child benefits.
He is putting food on other unskilled people's tables.
Should he be denied the same rights?

I don't have an answer, I just don't think this case is black and white, there is lots of gray.
If it were me, I would probably just go to another country tbh and take my tax money with me.


p.s. How much stamp duty would one pay on a €1 million mortgage?:eek:

Guy:Incognito

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

However, you don't get a €1 million mortgage by being unskilled.:

Does the fact that he's probably very well educated and presumably intelligent not make it worse that he is supposedly relying on a €160 a month from the state?

cabrwab

It was so easy to get a huge loan 2years ago. I know a bloke who got a 140%mortgage and who is now unemployed his friends told him dont do it your silly but people bought into the sh.t the government is bailing out the banks so why shouldn't they help the individuals? Im disappointed with the lee thought he'd go all Steven seagal on the fat one in charge

Dannyboy83

Stekelly wrote: »

Does the fact that he's probably very well educated and presumably intelligent not make it worse that he is supposedly relying on a €160 a month from the state?

Possibly.

Does the fact that he's probably paying very large amounts of tax and subsidizing so many other people not make it worse that his family may starve?

dvpower

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Possibly.

Does the fact that he's probably paying very large amounts of tax and subsidizing so many other people not make it worse that his family may starve?

His family might starve? He has a €1m mortgage and a public service job (that warranted a €1m mortgage) and his family might starve?
This recession is much worse than I thought.:eek::eek:

ardmacha

His family might starve? He has a €1m mortgage and a public service job (that warranted a €1m mortgage) and his family might starve?

A €1m+ house is still a pretty nice house, even in the peak of the boom. I wish I had one. It is not minimum accommodation. This person should sell his house, which would halve the loan and the repayments and then rent or buy a house elsewhere than in Dublin South.

There may be a case for helping out people meet their accommodation needs, but not helping them continue to live in biggish houses in expensive areas.

Rev. BlueJeans

Sorry, but bollocks to him.

A 1 million euro house is not a right, and even by inflated price standards, that's still a decent property.

The guy shouldn't have overstretched in the first place, and should not be subsidised to stay in a home beyond his means.

Lee would want to cop on, he's the very epitome of the old adage that anyone can hurl from the ditch...

lmimmfn

why doesnt he just default, rent for a while, save for another house and buy a much cheaper one when his credit rating is cleared????????? poor guy, i dont know how he survives.

Berti Vogts

Sean Moncrieff's radio programme just broadcast a vox pop with Henry McKean interviewing women in Blackrock, Dublin about the impact that child benefit cuts would have on them. The first woman interviewed was adamant that she could not possibly afford to have child benefit cut. McKean asked her did her children go to private school and she said that they did. McKean then also noted that her husband was waiting for her in their car, a Mercedes. Simply downsizing to a more modest car would likely cover the entire child benefit payment for a couple of years!

Although Blackrock is not in Lee's constituency, it is a relatively similar area to his Dublin South Constituency. It must be presumed that these are the type of folk he has in mind when he talks.

dodgyme

Possibilities wrote: »

Sean Moncrieff's radio programme just broadcast a vox pop with Henry McKean interviewing women in Blackrock, Dublin about the impact that child benefit cuts would have on them. The first woman interviewed was adamant that she could not possibly afford to have child benefit cut. McKean asked her did her children go to private school and she said that they did. McKean then also noted that her husband was waiting for her in their car, a Mercedes. Simply downsizing to a more modest car would likely cover the entire child benefit payment for a couple of years! .

Moncrieff picked blackrock to go to to ask about the effect of the cut on CA or was it an attack on GL, since then he could have just broadcast from GL's constituency?. Seriously now, blackrock is hardly representative of the average irish family. A bit of spin broadcasting I presume!:rolleyes:

Perhaps he shoulda tried Dunnes in ballina or something for something abit more on the money!

As for GL, he came across as a frustrated little school boy when he was on Miraims summer sat show thing last year.

Possibilities wrote: »

Although Blackrock is not in Lee's constituency, it is a relatively similar area to his Dublin South Constituency. It must be presumed that these are the type of folk he has in mind when he talks.

yes socially it is similar/the same

Berti Vogts

dodgyme wrote: »

Moncrieff picked blackrock to go to to ask about the effect of the cut on CA or was it an attack on GL, since then he could have just broadcast from GL's constituency?. Seriously now, blackrock is hardly representative of the average irish family. A bit of spin broadcasting I presume!:rolleyes:

It is true that Blackrock is not representative of the entire country but the point I took from it was that lots of people who are well able to shout about how they are unable to afford cuts etc are more concerned about how they are going to look to the neighbours when they switch to a Toyota from a Merc rather than concerned with living on the breadline!

dresden8

Possibilities wrote: »

Sean Moncrieff's radio programme just broadcast a vox pop with Henry McKean interviewing women in Blackrock, Dublin about the impact that child benefit cuts would have on them. The first woman interviewed was adamant that she could not possibly afford to have child benefit cut. McKean asked her did her children go to private school and she said that they did. McKean then also noted that her husband was waiting for her in their car, a Mercedes. Simply downsizing to a more modest car would likely cover the entire child benefit payment for a couple of years!

Although Blackrock is not in Lee's constituency, it is a relatively similar area to his Dublin South Constituency. It must be presumed that these are the type of folk he has in mind when he talks.

Presumably these are the same people who we dare not ask to pay more tax.

Because they're worth it.

Dannyboy83

Possibilities wrote: »

Sean Moncrieff's radio programme just broadcast a vox pop with Henry McKean interviewing women in Blackrock, Dublin about the impact that child benefit cuts would have on them. The first woman interviewed was adamant that she could not possibly afford to have child benefit cut. McKean asked her did her children go to private school and she said that they did. McKean then also noted that her husband was waiting for her in their car, a Mercedes. Simply downsizing to a more modest car would likely cover the entire child benefit payment for a couple of years!

Although Blackrock is not in Lee's constituency, it is a relatively similar area to his Dublin South Constituency. It must be presumed that these are the type of folk he has in mind when he talks.

In David McWilliams latest book, he was saying that people will start buying property in the 'catchment areas'.
The idea being that since many of these private schools are now on the verge of bankruptcy, people will try to downsize while simultaneously getting closer to the best state schools.
Its interesting because the same thing happened in the UK.

BTW, with regard to the original issue by Lee, I totally agree with the downsizing, I was just saying its not so black and white as some people would like to paint it.

invincibleirish

Where's the surprise that FG are reluctant to commit to stop giving Child Benefit to those who definitely do not need it? the champagne socialists of the Labour Party & the Garrett Wing of FG are more then happy to use the concept of universality to offer these subsidies to win the support of middle Ireland.

Scrap Child benefit to those who don't need it, its use/abuse by the upper classes is as scandalous as any allegations of SW fraud against the usual scapegoats (foreigners, single mothers and the rest of Irelands underclass).

irish_bob

Possibilities wrote: »

It is true that Blackrock is not representative of the entire country but the point I took from it was that lots of people who are well able to shout about how they are unable to afford cuts etc are more concerned about how they are going to look to the neighbours when they switch to a Toyota from a Merc rather than concerned with living on the breadline!

if playing the poor mouth was an olympic sport , ireland would have held the gold medal since 1896 , rich or poor , we all do it

Sand

There is a huge problem brewing under the need for public sector cutbacks/private sector competiveness.

Many, many, many people took out mortgages at the height of the property bubble. And their banks lent them to the money to do so. And their banks owe that money to cruel, heartless, monstrous bond holders.

So you say...some ****er borrowed money to buy a house, and now he cant pay it back. His ****ing problem, right?

Wrong. This is now the Republic of NAMA. Dear Leader Lenihan has demanded that the Irish people meet any demand, any call, any sacrifice to ensure the banks dont face the reality of their ****ing incompetence. This means if guys cant meet their mortgage repayments, the banks dont lose - its government policy that the banks *cannot* lose - instead you the taxpayer lose. So any losses the banks take, the taxpayer ( thats you if youre one of the few working people in Ireland who pay tax) pays.

I know there is schaudenfreude to be had in the "Ha! You ****s! I knew you'd get ****ed over buying that nice house!" type stuff.

But, Lenihan is the guy who is laughing last. He has your money. And whatever happens to the eejits who borrowed at the height of the bubble hell get his reward on the board of AIB or BoI. And you'll have to pay whatever it takes to ensure AIB and BoI executives get the bonus they so richly deserve. After all, this government has determined that no banker can be left behind.

Sure, we can say **** those assholes, cut their wages and **** em. But then the banks go into major trouble because the people they lent to ( same people were cutting wages to) cant keep up with increasing payments ( ECB is going to raise interest rates hugely in the next year or two) then thats not the banks problem. It is OUR problem. We are the Republic of NAMA.


As for Lee, his .... conversion is not an indictment of George Lee. Its an indictment of the Irish electorate. George Lee doesnt feel he can be honest with us, because too many people are in denial regarding the massive adjustment required. Anyone, apart from a union leader, looking at the raw costs vs revenue stats cant imagine that 4 billion cut in spending is worth an argument over, given we actually need to cut 26 billion. This is only the start. And yet, the Irish electorate will reward the dreamers, not the realists. Lee knows this - thats why he talks bollocks. If he was to be realistic, it would only hurt his chances with the Irish electorate. We dont realism. We want complete insanity.

Christ, Im listening to an ad on the radio trying to encourage Irish people to go to the pub. These are strange times we are living in.

FutureTaoiseach

He is being ridiculous. To argue that the Irish taxpayer - €20 billion in the red - should comfort the comfortable because of some philosophy that claims the money is not for the parents but 'for the children' (which is what the defenders of universalism like Joanna Tuffy (Late Debate RTE1) keep saying on the radio in recent days) is nonsensical because firstly, there is no provision under Irish law requiring it be spent for the benefit of children, and secondly, because the financial wellbeing of the parent effectively determines the quality of life of the child. There has to be means-testing. I know it is argued that this may be unconstitutional but I'm not buying it. This is the same AG who told Dermot Ahern to legislate to ban blasphemy. There is nothing in the Constitution requiring a fine of up to €100,000 for blasphemy, but it didn't stop him pushing it through the Oireachtas. Where was their concern for the Constitution when they failed to legislate for the X-Case ruling since 1992? :rolleyes:

Mods - can we have a poll on whether child-benefit should be cut, means-tested or left alone?