starter or battery?

vanderbadger

lads last few mornings my fiat 90-90 has been v slow to start, it normally starts straight away, last night wasnt even cold but it barely started, it seems to be turning away but was v slow to actually start, would that indicate starter problem, if it was battery i suppose it wouldnt turn at all

Box09

I have an 80-90. It sounds like the starter. Its not the battery. I presume you use the heating coil?

vanderbadger

you mean turn the key to heater position for a few sec? no didnt do that but never have needed to to be honest even on cold nights last winter

Mikefitzs

If it was the starter you would most likely get a strange clicking noise if turning over fast or nothing at all.
Clicking noise and turning very slow is an almost dead battery.
Slow to start is the battery.
Take it off and top it up with distilled water HAS TO BE DISTILLED (get at chemist) top up only to just over the lead plates inside the battery. Put it on a trickle charger for the night and off you go, unless it's screwed in that case new battery needed.:)

vanderbadger

battery is coming up on 3 years old I reckon, the battery light in the tractor never goes out but i assumed it was just an electrical fault as it been like this forever, will charge it tonight and see if it makes any odds

marlyman

Here is the process i would follow.

1. Fill battery with distilled water to recommended height ( normally just over the plates) and charge overnight and leave to settle

2. Check battery with voltmeter - reading must be over 12.7 V anything less is a dead cell

3. Check battery with a high voltage discharger to see if it is holding charge

4. Check output of alternator - to determine if it is charging the battery, on a 90/90 it should be 65 amps.

5. If all this fails the its the starter.

Im am negating that it might be a wiring problem.

hope this helps.

kfk

My tractor was doing the same thing recently. Turned out to be a bad earth on the battery. I hooked a wire between the battery pole and the tractor frame and it fixed the problem. Only a temporary fis until I sort out the earth. Its well worth having a multimeter for checking battery, alternator etc.

pakalasa

Yep, I think most problems with tractors starting are due to bad connections.

snowman707

vanderbadger wrote: »

battery is coming up on 3 years old I reckon, the battery light in the tractor never goes out but i assumed it was just an electrical fault as it been like this forever, will charge it tonight and see if it makes any odds

your alternator is faulty or loose connection

battery light staying means no charge , sort this out first & then think about battery or starter


Check &b clean if necessary all connections

Mikefitzs

vanderbadger wrote: »

battery is coming up on 3 years old I reckon, the battery light in the tractor never goes out but i assumed it was just an electrical fault as it been like this forever, will charge it tonight and see if it makes any odds

I didn't know the battery light was on in my other post. Check your connections seems something might be loose and battery is not charging.
Damn it try all the suggestion, hope you get sorted out:)

vanderbadger

just to update, this morning it was slow to start as it has been the last few mornings, noticed when I first turned on ignition no lights or anything came on in the dash, I carried on and turned the key to start and it was turning away without starting, then the lights came on on dash and it started staright away, sorry not making a great job of explaning that but it seems like defo some connection issue, i turned it off and turned the ignition on again, this time dash light came on and it started staright away, so its like its not connecting when i initally turn on the ignition in the morning till a few secs into the attempted start and then it kicks in if that makes any sense..
also just to say that light thats constantly on in the dash usually means the battery isnt charging i think but its always been like this so I think its just a fault as opposed to that alternator not working, the electrics arent the greatest in them, the lights work on and off and sometimes the radio comes on after been silent for weeks

Muckit

I think its been solved in most of the replys. Bad earth me thinks;) Fiats, especially the older ones had major probs with rust and rust is no friend to an electrical connection:D

I'd get out the wire brush and some course sandpaper and clean up connections at the battery and where earth lead in joined to the main chassis. Worst case, find a new location for your earth connection to frame, but shouldn't be neccessary.

Also as mentioned, use the heater for a few seconds, especially from now on, takes the stress off everything, older Fiats especially if alot of engine wear. We'd an '83 680 (pre 90series) and this is what we found anyways:)

Best of luck;)

wardy1

hopefully no minds me asking a question off the back of this thread as i've a similar enough problem

i've an mf590 which i use fairly infrequently - its been struggling to start for a good while (though usually would start eventually) and the solenoid always getting hot trying it. Battery is fairly new and i've recharged it to ensure it isn't the problem, checked all connections etc. Recently casing on solenoid has cracked from heat and tractor will no longer start. I've replaced the solenoid and since I've done this the starter is spinning and engine is failing to kick.

is it likely the starter needs to be replaced? any ideas

cheers wardy

snowman707

wardy1 wrote: »

hopefully no minds me asking a question off the back of this thread as i've a similar enough problem

i've an mf590 which i use fairly infrequently - its been struggling to start for a good while (though usually would start eventually) and the solenoid always getting hot trying it. Battery is fairly new and i've recharged it to ensure it isn't the problem, checked all connections etc. Recently casing on solenoid has cracked from heat and tractor will no longer start. I've replaced the solenoid and since I've done this the starter is spinning and engine is failing to kick.

is it likely the starter needs to be replaced? any ideas

cheers wardy

could be a fuel problem, diesel draining back from the pump or injectors, any fuel leaks?

Is the starter lazy? not turning the engine fast enough? maybe needs just a set of bushes

Edit,

on reflection I seem to remember hearing that there was a small rubber diaphram that gave problems in the fuel lift pump on some fergusons, but the engine should be down on power if this is perforated

spoutwell

I had exactly the same problem with starting the tractor - in my case the classic MF 135.
The light wasn't going out completely on the instrument panel.
I needed to charge the battery every few days or it wouldn't start.
I bought a new alternator but that didn't solve the problem.
I still needed to charge the battery.
I got the starter looked and the solenoid done up but that didn't do it.
I got the battery checked and it was ok.
I got the new alternator checked and it was ok.
I left it in a garage and the mechanic cut the old cable going to the alternator and ran a cable about 8 inches long from the starter to the alternator (that was €50).
Now the light goes out and it starts perfect.

zetorman

Could I ask similar question about my Zetor 5718....ignition light problem as well. When I press starter button nothing happens ??? no stir from starter at all BUT the parking lights come on ??? Any suggestions please !!

pakalasa

What you've got to realise with 24 V DC is that because the voltage is so low, a very high current flows. This means that all the wires have to be heavy and all connections very good to allow this high current to pass.

When you start a tractor in particular, a huge surge in power over a very short period is required. You'll see that with the size of the battery leads used compared to say a mains (220V) extension leads.

wardy1

snowman thanks for response

dont think its a fuel issue as have traced the diesel through to injector, no sign of leaks etc

starter is spinning but engine isn't turning at all

is replacing bushes a simple job? (aint looked inside starter before!)

chrs
wardy

quietsailor

This might seem a bit picky but when you say "the starter is spinning" do you mean the engine and starter are spinning or just the starter itself?

The first either is a weak battery, weak starter, or a fuel problem
The second is a broken solenoid/seized bearing within the starter itself

wardy1

just the starter is spinning ... engine isn't doing anything at the min!

i'm assuming its a problem with starter as solenoid has already been replaced .. dont know much about the internals of a starter but if it was likely to be something simple i'd have a shot at it myself, otherwise will need to go to expense of getting someone to look at ....

snowman707

wardy1 wrote: »

just the starter is spinning ... engine isn't doing anything at the min!

i'm assuming its a problem with starter as solenoid has already been replaced .. dont know much about the internals of a starter but if it was likely to be something simple i'd have a shot at it myself, otherwise will need to go to expense of getting someone to look at ....

quietsailor wrote: »

This might seem a bit picky but when you say "the starter is spinning" do you mean the engine and starter are spinning or just the starter itself?

The first either is a weak battery, weak starter, or a fuel problem
The second is a broken solenoid/seized bearing within the starter itself

Sorry,

I thought the engine was actually turning over but failing to to fire

Wardy best take out the unit & take it to an auto electrician as sailor says it could be a number of issues including the bendix in which case you may cause expensive damage to ring gear on the engine flywheel


the electrician will test the unit on the bench and if nothing else will verify thet the unit is ok.

marlyman

snowman707 wrote: »

Sorry,

I thought the engine was actually turning over but failing to to fire

Wardy best take out the unit & take it to an auto electrician as sailor says it could be a number of issues including the bendix in which case you may cause expensive damage to ring gear on the engine flywheel


the electrician will test the unit on the bench and if nothing else will verify thet the unit is ok.

dont repair your old unit - its a false economy, get a new one.

wardy1

thanks for the responses lads

must price one and weigh up the options ..

DanFindy

Starter obviously isint shooting out the cog wheel to engage the starter to the ring gear, hit the starter a sharp tap with the hammer before tryin to start it the next time. It can be a false economy to fix old starteres but i know a lad near enniskillen thats really top class at fixin them and another lad near donegal town that does replacement units

k mac

Had problems starting tractor and presumed it was the battery, got a new 1 and put it in still no start. Then i noticed the top of the leads to the battery were cracked, what would have caused this, would i have tightened them too much. If they had been damaged beforehand maybe this is what was causing my startig problem.

snowman707

k mac wrote: »

Had problems starting tractor and presumed it was the battery, got a new 1 and put it in still no start. Then i noticed the top of the leads to the battery were cracked, what would have caused this, would i have tightened them too much. If they had been damaged beforehand maybe this is what was causing my startig problem.

top of leads?

do you mean the connectors for the poles of the battery? if they are cracked they will not tighen and could be your problem , could be caused as you say by overthighening

vincenzolorenzo

The bendix in the starter is sticking. So when you turn the key the starter spins but won't engage with the flywheel. If you know an auto electrician he could probably recondition the starter for you for fairly small money. Either that or buy a new one