AAI moves the Fixture Calendar....again!!!

Condo131

The AAI have shifted the fixture calendar again.:mad::mad::mad::mad: The National Intermediate and Masters XC has been scheduled for Feb 21st 2010 - the same day as my Club's (permitted) race. It has always (since at least 1999) been held on the first or second week in Feb (once on last Sun in Jan)

I imagine that a lot of people reading this are going to say 'What's your problem, just go ahead with the race anyway!' The problem is that we expect to take part in the National Intermediate & Masters XC and some of our key organisers can't be in both places.

I now know the real effect 'dumping' the Inter-Clubs on their date had on Ballycotton. There is a HUGE knock-on effect wrt rescheduling fixtures. Clearly the whole fixture list doesn't move one week, just the affected races, so we're like beggars going round asking other organisers "When's your race on? Can you change? Do you want to swap with our date? ..and so on.

As I already said in the Ballycotton re-scheduling thread, we are now in the 21st century, while the AAI seems to be still in the stone age wrt to fixture planning. Motions before the 2008 AAI congress, intended to introduce formal calendar/fixture planning, were defeated. There is no doubt that matters have deteriorated since then.

I don't deny the AAI's authority to schedule their Championships, but can we not have better notice than 3 months? Let's have some modern scheduling from the AAI mandarins!:mad::mad::mad::mad:

helpisontheway

Congress should be fun in April!!!:D
A simple motion saying a set fixtures list must be given lets say 12 months in advance should pass quiet easily.
In the grand scheme of things once the Cork,Meath and Dublin County boards agree it will more than likely pass.

meathcountysec

helpisontheway wrote: »

once the Cork,Meath and Dublin County boards agree

But there's the rub. Who says Cork, Dublin and Meath can agree:D

helpisontheway

A favour here and there or a brown envelope under the table will bring unity on the matter easily enough:D

thirtyfoot

meathcountysec wrote: »

But there's the rub. Who says Cork, Dublin and Meath can agree:D

A truce in the war, ie, Dublin clubs pillaging the villages of Meath and stealing athletes/cattle/women, could see Meath and Dublin agreeing terms:)

helpisontheway

Actually would a AAI congress thread be a good or bad idea?

Condo131

helpisontheway wrote: »

A simple motion saying a set fixtures list must be given lets say 12 months in advance should pass quiet easily.

Easier said than done. The simple ones don't get by, because they are too vague and the detailed ones are too tough.

Here's the text of the motion before the 2008 congress:

"AAI Calendar of Events

The AAI shall annually prepare a calendar of all its championships, matches and invitation meetings. The calendar shall be drawn up at least 6 weeks before the end of the previous year and shall be amended or supplemented by the AAI, as appropriate, from time to time.

The AAI shall not, without consulting with the affected county/counties, organise an event on a day/date for which another event has already been scheduled in the calendar.

Where the AAI has not published a calendar by the due date, Provincial and County Boards shall be free to schedule its own events, except where specifically notified of individual events. Note: Where an event has been publicised by or on behalf of the AAI by email or on the AAI website that shall be considered sufficient.

No other event may be sanctioned on a day that has been scheduled for a National Championship. However a local event may be sanctioned for that date providing; No more than 400 competitors are expected AND the event is located at least 60 miles from the AAI event AND it is not a County or Provincial Championship.

The AAI shall rule on an event application within four weeks of receipt of the application. In the event of a ruling not being made within the time period, the event shall, by default, be deemed to be sanctioned."

I thought it covered all the bases, but it didn't get through. Obviously it was open to amendment (I expected that it would be amended), but no joy. FYI, I wasn't able (for personal reasons) to attend to champion the motion. I'm not going to push it again, but I'd like to see someone else give it a go. IMHO, a decent calendar would do a lot to promote the sport.

meathcountysec

Tingle wrote: »

A truce in the war, ie, Dublin clubs pillaging the villages of Meath and stealing athletes/cattle/women, could see Meath and Dublin agreeing terms:)

Or at least an undertaking to repatriate all them there commuting Dulchies:D:D:D:D

meathcountysec

helpisontheway wrote: »

A favour here and there or a brown envelope under the table will bring unity on the matter easily enough:D

We believe in openness and transparency, so unsealed envelopes with little windows in, please:D

Condo131

meathcountysec wrote: »

Or at least an undertaking to repatriate all them there commuting Dulchies:D:D:D:D

Educate me Wazza Dulchie?? Presume either a Culchie commuting to Dublin or a Dubliner commuting outside "de Pale"

Up De Rebels!!

IrishTrackFan

helpisontheway wrote: »

Congress should be fun in April!!!:D
A simple motion saying a set fixtures list must be given lets say 12 months in advance should pass quiet easily.
In the grand scheme of things once the Cork,Meath and Dublin County boards agree it will more than likely pass.

This is not as easy as it might appear - the AAI calendar is in turn dependent on the European calendar and the European Calendar congress was held just a few weeks ago as far as I am aware. Therefore, you can't lock down AAI dates until the European ones are confirmed.

meathcountysec

Condo131 wrote: »

Educate me Wazza Dulchie??

Me;) Consigned to the wilderness Meath for 40 years mortgage servitude

Condo131

IrishTrackFan wrote: »

This is not as easy as it might appear - the AAI calendar is in turn dependent on the European calendar and the European Calendar congress was held just a few weeks ago as far as I am aware. Therefore, you can't lock down AAI dates until the European ones are confirmed.

This is an old arguement trotted out by the AAI and leaks like a sieve. The international calendars are generally fixed l...o...n...g in advance. True they are subject to change ...and the AAI can change theirs too (if they bothered trying to set one sufficiently in advance) ...but IAAF/European Athletics events rarely change and, if they do, it's generally venue.

Have a look here: 2011 calendar for European Athletics There are even dates set for 2012 and 2013!!

The main reason I understand for the Intercounties being 'parachuted in' on Ballycotton was that a team manager wanted to select the teams nearer to the World XC date. Next year, we'll probably have a different idea, with another date (although the IAAF do have to decide whether they will move the World XC to Biennial, skipping 2011 altogether - that's due to be decided this month).

I've no idea why the Masters & Intermediate date was moved.

All I'm asking is that the AAI fixtures are decided in a more timely (than 2 to 3 months in advance) AND in a more formal fashion. At the moment, NOBODY, be it club, county or province, can set their calendar, because of the AAI policy. It appears to me, from experience, that the fixture list is decided on a pretty ad-hoc basis, along with a 'let them eat cake' attitude towards everyone else down the 'food chain'.

thirtyfoot

Condo131 wrote: »

All I'm asking is that the AAI fixtures are decided in a more timely (than 2 to 3 months in advance) AND in a more formal fashion.

This would need to be coincided with a recruitment drive of new officials. It seems to me there is a shortage of officials with a hardy old guard doing the job, year in and year out. Lack of officials may limit events being held simultaneously. The same officials probably cover road, country, indoor and outdoor for juvenile, junior, seniors and masters. More officials would mean a juvenile indoor meet could easily be held the same day as a master cross event. May happen already (don't have time to check fixtures) but it does seem to me that resources is a problem. A very broad age and discipline range needs to covered by a small group of officials.

IrishTrackFan

Tingle wrote: »

This would need to be coincided with a recruitment drive of new officials. It seems to me there is a shortage of officials with a hardy old guard doing the job, year in and year out. Lack of officials may limit events being held simultaneously. The same officials probably cover road, country, indoor and outdoor for juvenile, junior, seniors and masters. More officials would mean a juvenile indoor meet could easily be held the same day as a master cross event. May happen already (don't have time to check fixtures) but it does seem to me that resources is a problem. A very broad age and discipline range needs to covered by a small group of officials.

The officials situation is quite interesting. One concern that is often expressed is that there are no young officials at the national level. But actually it is impossible to break into the closed circle of people that do that work week in week out. One the one hand they do a phenomenal job for the 38 or so weekends that there are national competitions on. But on the other hand they have made it their social life and they don't want anybody else involved. AAI is storing up problems in this respect I fear because there is no proper management of the resources with a view to using local people where possible to reduce cost and to introduce new blood

ChickenTikka

Scottish athletics have a good approach for officials ... they pay expenses to retired people to officiate at the National juvenile indoor (and presumably other) events. They train up these people in whatever role they are to play. Presumably the people are delighted as its an interest during their retirement. They are extremely professional and they are extremely polite unlike many of the Irish officials. They don't seem to have an affiliation to clubs and don't seem to know a huge amount about the athletes taking part but are trained up in officiating at a particular discipline. And they seem to enjoy their jobs ... unlike a lot of the tired officials in Ireland who are probably after putting in 10 hours already that week coaching in their club, 10 hours of club, county, regional and national meetings and now have to spend 2 days officiating.

Perhaps AAI could take a leaf from Scotland's book.

Racing Flat

IrishTrackFan wrote: »

The officials situation is quite interesting. One concern that is often expressed is that there are no young officials at the national level. But actually it is impossible to break into the closed circle of people that do that work week in week out. One the one hand they do a phenomenal job for the 38 or so weekends that there are national competitions on. But on the other hand they have made it their social life and they don't want anybody else involved. AAI is storing up problems in this respect I fear because there is no proper management of the resources with a view to using local people where possible to reduce cost and to introduce new blood

^^^This could well be very prophetic.

I remember a few years ago an organiser had some very innovative ideas for a meet being organised. When it came to running them by some high up admin people it went a bit like this:

Org - Can we try x?

Ad - No. Can we get back to the meal vouchers for the officials?

Org - But they do x at all the grand prix meets!

Ad - Well we don't do it here! We've never done it here, so I don't see why we need to change it now. But the officials must be given a free meal voucher. And free parking - have you factored free parking for the officials in?

etc.