Melbourne win Super 15 spot.

thomond2006

http://www.scrum.com/super14/rugby/story/105308.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

Can't understand why the ARU want another franchise. Australia don't have the players to cover 5 competitive teams.

Look how bad the Queensland Reds are.

sock puppet

It'd be great if they managed to get in a few top Argentinian players (in the short run at least).

Reds problems aren't due to a lack of players. They've 5 starting for Australia this weekend. What they need are some quality forwards. Western Force probably have more to worry about in the long run. Also it's not like South Africa have the players for an extra side either.

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

http://www.scrum.com/super14/rugby/story/105308.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

Can't understand why the ARU want another franchise. Australia don't have the players to cover 5 competitive teams.

Look how bad the Queensland Reds are.

Even more so, watch how bad the Western Force will be next season. That franchise is so close to falling apart right now, the people of Perth just plain don't care about Union. The Reds have far more potential to become a good team. The Force have Nathan Sharpe and Ryan Cross, who are decent, and then maybe Cam Shepherd you could say. But after that they're looking extremely poor and in very bad shape.

Stev_o

How are they supposed to compete against Melbourne Storm? They ll loose upright in attendance to their League counter parts.

irishbucsfan

Stev_o wrote: »

How are they supposed to compete against Melbourne Storm? They ll loose upright in attendance to their League counter parts.

Yeah... Really strange decision.

Podge_irl

Its a strange decision purely in rugby terms, but administratively its the only one that made sense. They're putting the S15 into conferences next year no? Having a SA team in the Aus conference would just cause all kinds of hassle.

They should have bit the bullet and got an Argentinian team or two in instead. They may not have been competitive straight away, but they'd have more potential than this team methinks.

themont85

I remember when I first watched Super rugby how cool it was to see all these different club teams from all over the place and far away from each other all in one competition. Its got stale recently though and Argentina have to get themselves at least one team in the future. Buenos Aires Pumas (BAPs) sounds class to me for summer rugby on Sky.

tHE vAGGABOND

It will be interesting to see how the Melbourne team does. Its a sport mad town, but its Aussie Rules and Cricket country, so will people come out and support the team - that will be interesting?

Tim Robbins

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how the Melbourne team does. Its a sport mad town, but its Aussie Rules and Cricket country, so will people come out and support the team - that will be interesting?

Aussies hate losing more than anyone else, so I doubt it.

little173

Podge_irl wrote: »

Its a strange decision purely in rugby terms, but administratively its the only one that made sense. They're putting the S15 into conferences next year no? Having a SA team in the Aus conference would just cause all kinds of hassle.

They should have bit the bullet and got an Argentinian team or two in instead. They may not have been competitive straight away, but they'd have more potential than this team methinks.

Yes, this is the reason. I do think Australia are mad to go for a 5th team, not enough players to go around, less quality for their national team, but may be good to promote RU in Melbourne.
It is interesting when you look at the Irish set up in comparison in terms of relying on 2 very strong teams and Ulster providing the odd player and Connacht basically none. Is this too few? If Munster or Leinster have a really bad slump in form it leaves the national team too exposed so probably 3 really strong teams and few from Connacht is what we need.

Xavi6

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Even more so, watch how bad the Western Force will be next season. That franchise is so close to falling apart right now, the people of Perth just plain don't care about Union.

They care far more about Union than League anyway. The Force get around 25,000 per home game which is a good attendance when you consider that there are feck all away supporters.

Subiaco Oval isn't suited to rugby though due to it being an oval stadium that holds 44,000. What they need is a purpose built soccer/rugby stadium to cater for about 30,000 fans (Members Equity Stadium was their previous home but it's too small).

Attendances in Perth for Wallabies tests are good so to say Perth people don't care is off the mark.

The Reds have far more potential to become a good team. The Force have Nathan Sharpe and Ryan Cross, who are decent, and then maybe Cam Shepherd you could say. But after that they're looking extremely poor and in very bad shape.

James O'Connor

dub_skav

odd decision alright. Melbourne is aussie rules all the way, they barely care about league. I really can't see this working out

irishbucsfan

Xavi6 wrote: »

They care far more about Union than League anyway. The Force get around 25,000 per home game which is a good attendance when you consider that there are feck all away supporters.

Subiaco Oval isn't suited to rugby though due to it being an oval stadium that holds 44,000. What they need is a purpose built soccer/rugby stadium to cater for about 30,000 fans (Members Equity Stadium was their previous home but it's too small).

Attendances in Perth for Wallabies tests are good so to say Perth people don't care is off the mark.

Well I'm not sure if you've ever lived in Perth, but I can assure you that the people there have very little interest in rugby. You're right they don't care about League either. It's a footy town. The rugby is rarely covered in the papers at all. When Tuqiri was sacked I bought the Western Australian (because you can be sure they didn't cover it in the news on telly) and there was hardly a mention of it.

Perth is a big enough city though and there are good rugby clubs there, and they certainly fill the Subi when the Wallabies come to town, but they certainly don't follow Rugby nearly as closely as we do. And I expect that to become a worsening situation if the Force become bottom feeders in the Super XV

Xavi6 wrote: »

James O'Connor

:pac: you're right. I had him down first, then I accidentally deleted him for some reason! But in saying that. He's a good prospect, but he has a long way to go to be a "great" player. I hope he makes it though, he seems like a good guy, and I love the Force really.

anonymous_joe

Xavi6 wrote: »

James O'Connor

I wondered why no-one had mentioned him.

Then again, will he stay there?

Xavi6

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well I'm not sure if you've ever lived in Perth,

Born here, living back here for almost three years now. Regular at Force games.

but I can assure you that the people there have very little interest in rugby. You're right they don't care about League either. It's a footy town. The rugby is rarely covered in the papers at all.

It is a footy city primarily but rugby and cricket get good amounts of coverage, particularly during the season.

When Tuqiri was sacked I bought the Western Australian (because you can be sure they didn't cover it in the news on telly) and there was hardly a mention of it.

The West Australian is the biggest load of propoganda bullshit in circulation and I wouldn't use it as a benchmark for anything tbh.

The reason the Tuqiri sacking didn't get much coverage is because it didn't happen in WA. That sort of reporting isn't just confined to rugby. Basically, if it doesn't happen in Perth it's not 'news'.

Perth is a big enough city though and there are good rugby clubs there, and they certainly fill the Subi when the Wallabies come to town, but they certainly don't follow Rugby nearly as closely as we do. And I expect that to become a worsening situation if the Force become bottom feeders in the Super XV

The Force are still a relatively new franchise and are tapping into a massive market. Attendances in the mid 20,000s are very respectable and if there was a purpose built stadium then it would hit the 30,000s I believe.

Giteau was a massive drawcard and he will be a massive loss this year so it'll be interesting to see how it goes.

I'll be there watching anyway

OldJay

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how the Melbourne team does. Its a sport mad town, but its Aussie Rules and Cricket country, so will people come out and support the team - that will be interesting?

What helped rugby league there was the Storm making the Grand Final in their first year and winning the NRL in their second. Was something to build upon. They've a loyal following and receive a lot of media and coporate interest ever since.
This new state team will be under the same pressure to succeed. Possible but they have to get it right from the off. Not a chance to build over some seasons given the state of rugby union in Australia at the moment.

thomond2006

*Bump*

Rod Macqueen has been appointed head coach.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12334_5856971,00.html

ALH-06

Xavi6 wrote: »

The Force are still a relatively new franchise and are tapping into a massive market. Attendances in the mid 20,000s are very respectable and if there was a purpose built stadium then it would hit the 30,000s I believe.

Mid-20,000 is a massive average attendance figure - only 2 or 3 European teams could equal that. How could anyone say that the Force are falling apart if they're pulling massive crowds like these?

dave13

gotta remember that they're only playing 6 games a year at home(irish provinces play at least 12).Average attendance is great, but it might not be that much revenue overall.

toomevara

Justind wrote: »

What helped rugby league there was the Storm making the Grand Final in their first year and winning the NRL in their second. Was something to build upon. They've a loyal following and receive a lot of media and coporate interest ever since.
.

Exactly and they've also attracted some real marquee names Slater, Inglis, Manu...to name but a few. A real object lesson in how to establish a sport in an area of traditionally stony ground. Their attendances average out around the 13,000 mark AFAIK...wish the new union outfit all the best, Storm have shown them the way. Some seriously fanatical supporters, even a few travelling to Elland road for the world club challenge in Feb...now that's dedication to the cause...

Diamondmaker

toomevara wrote: »

Exactly and they've also attracted some real marquee names Slater, Inglis, Manu...to name but a few. A real object lesson in how to establish a sport in an area of traditionally stony ground. Their attendances average out around the 13,000 mark AFAIK...wish the new union outfit all the best, Storm have shown them the way. Some seriously fanatical supporters, even a few travelling to Elland road for the world club challenge in Feb...now that's dedication to the cause...

This is very true about the attendance, the melb franchise main competiton will not be from the NRL but form everything else, in fact many of the NRL fans just being "rygby" fans may get behind the Union as well.

The city is such an AFL place and despite the storm being the most succesful NRL team of the last while they have very small attendances.

I did see Irl V Aus in Melb and the telstra was near full, 40-50 k I think and given that they will only have 6 odd home games, trial games and potential KO games maybe there is enough appetite to support this small number of games.

Only time will tell.

I read, funnily enough that ROG, would be a target player for them with an estimated salary of 500k AUD. Wonder would he even consider this as he must earn more than taht at home inc sponsorhip deal that would likley fall should he leave.

toomevara

Diamondmaker wrote: »

I read, funnily enough that ROG, would be a target player for them with an estimated salary of 500k AUD. Wonder would he even consider this as he must earn more than taht at home inc sponsorhip deal that would likley fall should he leave.

lol, judging from the reaction on another thread regarding some ML comments he perhaps unwisely made, reckon, he'd best start packing...:D

sock puppet

toomevara wrote: »

Exactly and they've also attracted some real marquee names Slater, Inglis, Manu...to name but a few. A real object lesson in how to establish a sport in an area of traditionally stony ground. Their attendances average out around the 13,000 mark AFAIK...wish the new union outfit all the best, Storm have shown them the way. Some seriously fanatical supporters, even a few travelling to Elland road for the world club challenge in Feb...now that's dedication to the cause...

The problem is though that being successful soon could prove very difficult. They're going to have a lot of foreigners at first. The Force have signed Pretorius for next season, and I think he's indicative of the quality of player that'll be going over. I also doubt there'd be that many Australians up here that could be lured back. Long term though I think it'll be very good for Australian rugby.

PhatPiggins

sock puppet wrote: »

The problem is though that being successful soon could prove very difficult. They're going to have a lot of foreigners at first. The Force have signed Pretorius for next season, and I think he's indicative of the quality of player that'll be going over. I also doubt there'd be that many Australians up here that could be lured back. Long term though I think it'll be very good for Australian rugby.

I dont know there are plenty of Aussies who left because they could nt get game time and are on similar money in europe to what they'd get at home.

The likes of Court,Blake,Salvi,Kefu,Rooney,Knight and so on might not be world beaters but are S14 squad standard.

I'd imagine they'll bring in a few Argies with the expanded 3N's in mind

sock puppet

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I dont know there are plenty of Aussies who left because they could nt get game time and are on similar money in europe to what they'd get at home.

The likes of Court,Blake,Salvi,Kefu,Rooney,Knight and so on might not be world beaters but are S14 squad standard.

I'd imagine they'll bring in a few Argies with the expanded 3N's in mind

Totally forgot about Argentina joining the 3Ns actually. Well Court has been capped by Ireland so I doubt he'd leave at this stage. You're right about the others. Blake and Salvi would be good signings. But Salvi is first choice for Bath so he could well be on a lot more than he'd get at home. Haven't really seen Bayonne so couldn't comment.

They'll attract players sure, but I think their success will depend on singing Aus players from other franchises rather than ones playing abroad.

thebaz

thomond2006 wrote: »

Can't understand why the ARU want another franchise. Australia don't have the players to cover 5 competitive teams.

Look how bad the Queensland Reds are.

agree completly, it would have been much more interesting to have an Argentinian or even better Pacific island team , rather than the safe boring option of another Aussie team - unless they open up a bit , they will suffocate with conservatism

sock puppet

thebaz wrote: »

agree completly, it would have been much more interesting to have an Argentinian or even better Pacific island team , rather than the safe boring option of another Aussie team - unless they open up a bit , they will suffocate with conservatism

If an Argentinian team were added it would have to play in the Australian conference. It was one of the reasons that South Africa weren't given the extra team as now each nation has 5 teams. There's also nothing to suggest that the ARU would be able to manage setting up a professional team. A Pacific Island team wouldn't be feasible either really. The Melbourne franchise was the only one that made sense.

PhatPiggins

sock puppet wrote: »

Totally forgot about Argentina joining the 3Ns actually. Well Court has been capped by Ireland so I doubt he'd leave at this stage. You're right about the others. Blake and Salvi would be good signings. But Salvi is first choice for Bath so he could well be on a lot more than he'd get at home. Haven't really seen Bayonne so couldn't comment.

They'll attract players sure, but I think their success will depend on singing Aus players from other franchises rather than ones playing abroad.

There are heaps of Aussies playing in France/England that fly under the radar. Pinching players from other franchises is a doubled edged sword. The standard of the Australian teams in the S14 has dropped since the introduction of the Force.

thomond2006

I wonder how long Brock James is contracted to Clermont. If I was Rod Macqueen, James would be my number one target to bring home.

Let's hope they keep their mitts off Paul Warwick too..

thebaz

sock puppet wrote: »

IA Pacific Island team wouldn't be feasible either really. The Melbourne franchise was the only one that made sense.

Why would a Pacific island team not make sense ?

They bring so much to the game , they probably have no money now , but is that reason to ditch them ?

I know plenty people , myself included , who would have much more interest in the Super 15 if there was a development Pacific Island team - maybe it would be a gamble , but I think long term it would help marketing the tournament .... wishful thinking i suppose

sock puppet

PhatPiggins wrote: »

There are heaps of Aussies playing in France/England that fly under the radar. Pinching players from other franchises is a doubled edged sword. The standard of the Australian teams in the S14 has dropped since the introduction of the Force.

True it has, but for the short term success of the new team they'll need a couple of big names. Brock James would be a good signing if they could egt him back though.

thebaz wrote: »

Why would a Pacific island team not make sense ?

They bring so much to the game , they probably have no money now , but is that reason to ditch them ?

I know plenty people , myself included , who would have much more interest in the Super 15 if there was a development Pacific Island team - maybe it would be a gamble , but I think long term it would help marketing the tournament .... wishful thinking i suppose

Becasue they'd be playing in the Australian conference. Money is also a perfectly valid reason for there not to be a PIs team. There also probably won't even be a PI's team in future.