Tenant harassment by landlord... where do I stand?

Marina-anseo2

I need your advise on this matter because I need to move house and want to know if I can get my deposit back. Harassment by Landlord vs Unruly tenant.
---> [FONT=&quot]Tuesday night/Wednesday morning, I was sitting up in bed on my laptop studying. I heard a loud knocking on the door, the knocking wasn’t continuous but loud each individual time. I was not expecting anyone, neither were any of the other girls in the house. I got a phone call at 12:50am from one of the people outside of whom I wish to keep anonymous. I recognised the voice and went downstairs to answer the door. I had expected two people to be there but there were five. All had previously been at the campus bar to watch a Manchester United football match. They decided to call to my house to invite me out with them on their way to a pub in the city centre.
All five were smoking and as I live in a non smoking house I asked them to please go outside to smoke along with another girl in the living in the house who then went to bed. Three of them decided they wanted to continue smoking so left the premises and waited outside the entrance to the property. The remaining two discontinued smoking and came with me upstairs to my room where for a few minutes we just chatted. I then decided I would join them so I took clothes from my wardrobe and went into the bathroom to change. I had left the two guests in my room where I expected they would stay but neither did.
On leaving the bathroom I realised they were no longer in my room. I went down stairs to find them in the kitchen giggling. However, I took no notice of this.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Next day at 4:45pm I met the girl who had seen the group and I apologised for the disruption. She told me about food missing from one of the other girls cupboards and how that there was rice, bread and a pot in the back yard. I immediately read a note left on the counter by the girls whos food was taken. The note informed me of what was missing so I took responsibility and on the 05/11/09 I purchased one box of Uncle Bens rice and One loaf of Irish Pride brown bread from a local shop.

I received a phone call from a landline number on the morning of the 04/11/09 but I did not answer as it was not a number I recognised. Later on that day at approximately 3pm I received another phone call from a number I did not recognise which after allowing to almost ring out I decided to answer. I recognised the voice on the over the phone to be that of my landlady’s. Her husband y could be heard in the background and they requested that I call to their house for a meeting immediately once I got home which I had predicted to be 5pm that evening. After having discovered the food missing I went next door to apologise to the landlords for the disruption the previous night.
The landlords were very accusing, standing on either side of [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]me, telling me this was the worst experience of a tenant they have ever had. Despite my attempt to defend myself Y would not accept my reasoning and proceeded with his interrogation. He simple told me I was completely wrong because I opened the door to them. I must stress that I had not invited them over, this event was not planned and I was under the assumption that there were only two people outside the door. I assured the landlords the food would be replaced and I would apologise to the girl affected. I proceeded to explain to the landlord how these people would not be returning to the house and if they were to turn up at the door again I would refuse to open the door to them.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]However my promises were not good enough and Y proceeded to interrogate me. He asked me if I know every member of the group who visited. I replied honestly and said yes I do. He then questioned me about how many were there, how I knew who they were if I had not invited them, their names, what they are studying in college, where they live and contact details. Clearly this is a breach of personal information and I was not in any position to give these peoples details to a man who when asked why he wanted all this information refused to give a straight answer. I was continuously questioned and felt pressured to give an answer so I regrettably gave him incorrect details to get away from him for the time being. (I know I would have been better off to simply refuse to provide information but I felt bullied into it) I am aware giving fake names and a fake phone number is unjust however I felt bullied into giving some sort of information.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I gave them my sisters mobile number as one of the contacts so that I could inform her of the situation. However, Y decided to ring this number straight away. I asked to use the toilet and while there I hoped to get in contact before my landlord did. I came downstairs to find my sister on the phone to Y refusing to give out information until my own name was mentioned because from then on she thought something had happened to me personally. I was put on the phone to her after being told I must have given the wrong number. I spoke to my sister who was confused but went along with my attempts to finish the phone call and get out of the house. The landlord believed this number was for one of the people who stayed inside the house. To avoid further questions I told him the true person’s phone probably had no reception and the call can be then diverted to another number set by the owner. I was asked to get the surname of this person while speaking to my sister. I asked her what this persons surname is and she answered me in german telling me she didn’t know so I gave him the surname.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the phone call he asked me to find out the surname of the second person who remained in the house. I said I would, to be able to leave however, I had no intention of getting him more information. Y requested that I bring the group of people to his house so he could “deal” with them. I was not told what his plan was so I agreed but was not going to do it. He had requested I bring them over at 7pm that evening.

Later on that evening at approximately 7:30pm, Y called into the house without giving any notice and walked upstairs to my bedroom door and knocked on my door looking for an excuse. This time the girl whos items were taken was also present but she was not in the same room until Y left my doorstep and went downstairs. She said she just wanted the items replaced and wanted to make sure the same thing wouldn’t happen again.[/FONT]
This was enough for her but not for my landlord who at this stage had taken the event personally. He repeatedly said he was “going to take this to a higher authority” with a threatening tone of voice and how he would “chase the people for as long as” he could. He always finished his conversation in this way to make me feel more intimidated by him. He was looking for more information again and wanted me to check the internet for their surnames. I told him the internet was too slow to send an email I was in the process of sending so his request was impossible. This is clearly a breach of contract. He left after asking questions which I had already answered but I presume this was his way of checking my story. My phone rang and he said “that must be him now” I replied “no, it’s my mother.” He finished yet again with how he was “not going to stop” and “going to cause as much fuss in the university as he could over it” until he found the people he was looking for. For the rest of the night I didn’t have any further disturbances from him(Y) or his wife(x).

[FONT=&quot]On the 05/11/09 I replaced items in my house mates cupboard at roughly 6pm perhaps earlier or later. Shortly after my return that evening to my house I went upstairs to my room where I switched on my light as it was dark outside. My bedroom window can be seen from my landlords house which is the next door down. I as usual sat down on my bed to my laptop, after about fifteen minutes there was a knocking on my door again. It was Y who yet again had not given me any notice that he was coming into the house to talk to me.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]He this time had drawn his own little map of the fake estate address I had given him and he asked me to point out where the house was. I previously tried to avoid this by saying” I do not know where they live” but he said “did you not say you had been to their house” so I again tried to avoid giving personal information by telling him they all live in different places but he refused to acknowledge my hesitation and proceeded to intimidate me into feeling like I had to give him an answer for him to leave me alone. I gave him a fake house number and pointed at a place on his picture. He asked me if the girl who was up at the time they called would recognise the group and I said I’d imagine she would. He then left and I hoped that would be the end of it. Shortly afterwards I received a phone call from a landline number which again I did not recognise and was not willing to answer so I silenced the call. Expecting to be interrupted by the landlord again I switched off my bedroom light, checked my curtains were closed properly and locked my door. I sat back on my bed and lowered the brightness of my laptop screen to prevent shadows being seen outside my curtains. [/FONT]

I was talking to a friend of mine on facebook chat when my landlord knocked on the door yet again. I didn’t move anything but my fingers which typed the words “he’s outside my door again”. My friend was worried about me as I felt scared. I was told by my friend to call the guards because this was harassment but I felt there was no need because once I didn’t answer the door he could only leave again. I sat still listening as hard as I could hoping to hear the front door shut but instead Y went into the kitchen where there were some of the other female tenants and asked them to tell me when they would see me that he wants to see me. He finally left the premises.

09/11/09 20:35 Landlady entered the house with her own key. Stayed at the bottom of the stairs talking to one of the tenants and left the house at 20:43. I was not disturbed this time. <----

So what do you think? Sorry for the long account but the details are important. Do I have a case or not? I need responses asap.

super_furry

Jesus Christ, that's insane. Get onto to everyone - Thresehold, your college, maybe even make the Gardai aware of what's going on.

Marina-anseo2

I did, the accommodation officer is taking my landlords(y) side and advising him to write a statement to the guards about me! Thats why I've posted this because I really cannot see how being harrassed means I'm to be reported. There is no exaggeration in this story or missing detail, it is the exact case.

Lollipops23

Marina-anseo2 wrote: »

So what do you think? Sorry for the long account but the details are important. Do I have a case or not? I need responses asap.

We cannot give you legal advice.

However,my advice would be to cut your losses and move out. He clearly doesn't trust you. Have to say, if I was living with you and you had people over at 12.50am on a weekday I'd be mightily pissed off.

Just get out now, there's been a major breakdown in communications.

bSlick

Tell him if he wants to call the guards over a box of Uncles Bens rice and a loaf of bread to go right ahead. Seriously say that to him. He has absolutely no power over you other than what you let him have, I would have told him to go and f*** himself if I was in that situation.

zuroph

problem you may have is it sounds like the other tenants are inviting him into house, which means hes fine to enter. Sounds like its not the first thing has pissed the other tenants off about you, and they're trying to get rid.

Marina-anseo2

I should state that the other tenants do not have any problems with me. I replaced the food and apologised to everyone. The other tenants are also students except one who has just graduated. The other tenants do not wish to get involved, my proof of this is that none of them passed on the message from my landlord that he wanted to see me. I'm am not an unruly tenant myself, I have never caused trouble personally, never broken anything or left the place in a mess so It not the case of the tenants trying to get rid of me. The tenants do not invite the landlord in he lets himself in using his own key. They told me they are used to it as he always does this. To give you a better idea of what my landlord is like this is another event that happened in the house but not to me so it is not my case to follow up on:
One of the girls in my house was renting a double room which is the most expensive room in the house, recently her partner moved out so she asked the landlady if she could move into a single, less expensive room. This was accepted by the landlady and she moved her stuff into the smaller room, however, when the landlord heard about this he came into the house and shouted at her. I did not hear the conversion but she was in tears and the other tenants were talking about how it was a disgrace and they had to console the girl.

Oroel

This is ridiculous the man is a joke.
Contact Threshhold immediately.

1. He enters without any warning.
2. Harrasment
3. Threatening behaviour.
4. It is none of his business what you are doing in your home unless there is a valid complaint.

Write when and where everything happened and everything he does/says down. You seem to have it all pretty well recorded so copy it again and bring it to Threshold. Another option is to move out, i certainly would. It sounds like too much hassle to be worth it.

amdublin

My brain hurts after reading all that

OP - Threshold would be the organisation to assist you here.

Saying that, in my personal opinion, just move out. Leave him to deal with an empty room and no rent for a month or two. Not worth the trouble in my opinion.

the_syco

Marina-anseo2 wrote: »

I

I'm guessing you're a girl, and the old leech thinks he can get away with the intimidation crap because of this.

Marina-anseo2 wrote: »

All had previously been at the campus bar to watch a Manchester United football match.

Marina-anseo2 wrote: »

I went down stairs to find them in the kitchen giggling.

Marina-anseo2 wrote: »

Y requested that I bring the group of people to his house so he could “deal” with them.

Marina-anseo2 wrote: »

My bedroom window can be seen from my landlords house which is the next door down.

Check with your mates on what they did. The way I see it is: they were drinking, they did something that may have been viewed by the landlord, and went back inside giggling as they may have known that they were seen.

=-=

Are you a first year? And would you do silly sh|t at home? If not, I'd get your parents involved. When they hear how's he is over reacting to this, they may take a very dim view of his way of dealing with things. If, however, you think your parents won't belive you, don't.

athtrasna

OP I'm sorry you're having trouble but tbh without paragraphs your post is VERY hard to read...any chance you can edit it to insert paragraphs?

Marina-anseo2

Yes I am a girl (house full of girls), a second year and I have informed my parents of the situation.
Tomorrow I will contact Threshold and my university free legal advice service. My parents told me to go to our family solicitor if it is taken further by the landlord or if I'm told I have the right to my deposit back and he refuses.
I would leave now only my parents have my rent paid until the 26th and If I can get my deposit back I can pay my own next deposit and first weeks worth of rent for them. Thank you everyone for your inputs:) I wanted to see what everyone here thought after the university accommodation officer rang me and basically told me to accept the harassment because "he's just concerned"... harassment is illegal i.e. not to be just accepted.
Hope the spacing in my original post makes it easier to read...apologies.

the_syco

Marina-anseo2 wrote: »

I would leave now only my parents have my rent paid until the 26th

Unless otherwise stated, you may have to give a months notice, and you may be liable for the rest of the years rent if you had signed a lease stating this.

In saying this, as the tard has been harrassing you, this may be waived. Threshold should have info on this.

Marina-anseo2 wrote: »

I wanted to see what everyone here thought after the university accommodation officer rang me and basically told me to accept the harassment because "he's just concerned"...

After this is over, I'd report the accomodation officer, as they're paid to "give a sh|t" about the accomodation of the students.

Marina-anseo2 wrote: »

Hope the spacing in my original post makes it easier to read...apologies.

Meh, ignore the grammer nazi's.

Kipperhell

This might not be harassment as I think there is a lot of lying. Effectively you are causing the landlord to keep coming back. If you refuse to give him the information and he keeps coming back then it may be harassment. No legal expert but I think I remember reading something about how harassment is legally defined.

No matter what your landlord is acting over the the top but you are also antagonising him by lying. An apology should have been enough. Unless something else happened there is no reason he needs to know the people involved.

He can complain to the college stating you know the people and some times colleges act a little strange about such things.

You will need the landlord to agree to let you leave without penalty so I would keep things very formal. If you feel intimidated bring somebody else along who has a cool head.

You could contact your friends and let them know the hassle they have caused and inform them your landlord wants to speak to them. They might not care if he contacts them. You could be hiding their identities for no reason what so ever.

They should own up themselves if they are any way adult.

Either way it seems best you leave. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a house mate who goes running to the landlord either.

Marina-anseo2

In my own situation perhaps there are conditions but this is what I found online as a definition:

"A person harasses another person if he or she engages in a pattern of behaviour that is directed against that other person, being a pattern of behaviour that includes doing any (of the following) specified act(s) to the other person on at least 2 separate occasions within a period of 12 months:

• Watching, loitering near, or preventing or hindering access to or from, that person's place of residence, business, employment, or any other place that the person frequents for any purpose;

• Following, stopping, of accosting that person;

• Entering, or interfering with, property in that person's possession;

• Making contact with that person (whether by telephone, correspondence, or in any way);

• Giving offensive material to that person, of leaving it where it will be found by, given to, or brought to the attention of, that person;(and)

• Acting in any other way that causes that other person to fear for his or her safety; and that would cause a reasonable person in (those) particular circumstances to fear for his or her safety.

analbumcover

Okay, sounds like either your landlord is making a huge deal out of nothing or you haven't been honest with us here and told us everything, are you leaving somehting out?

However, taking your account as the whole truth, and nothing but I would say you are entitled to get your deposit back in it's entirity as long as you leave the room like you found it and have caused any dammage to the room beyond the normal wear and tear.

I think you should contact Threshold.

During your first six month's of tenancy the landlord can ask you to leave and does not have to provide a reason. However, he must give you 30 days notice. Has he done this?

Long story short, according to your story, the landlord sounds like a nutter and way too invovled with his tennants. You've learned a valueble lesson here: the property you rent is only as good as the landlord who owns it.

Basically, if you have a reason to believe that the deposit will not be returned to you I would advise giving 30 days notice, and not pay the last month's rent. He could raise hell, but in the end all he can do is take you to small claims court and try to sue you for that months rent... at which time the judge would also probably order the landlord to return your deposit thus making the whole matter pretty moot.

I advise you rent a 2 bedroom and lease out the 2nd room to someone you are compatible with.

Marina-anseo2

I know the whole thing sounds ridiculous...this much fuss over bread and rice but its all true. I'm not leaving out details at all.
He hasn't given me 30 days notice.
I was taken for a meeting by my course dept this morning as he had contacted them on the matter and the dept wanted to make sure I was ok and not being pressured. I also received a call from my university but I missed it so I can't say exactly who it would have been... I just googled the number and it came up as the number for my uni.
I have to pay rent in advance in that house so Im afraid leaving without paying rent isnt an option...
I have already organised a place to move into, moving in with good friends

Bob Z

Op your landlord sounds a bit nuts. You were wrong to have people in so late he's taking it out of proportion. Maybe he's trying to you and the other tenants a lesson. By being so strict the rest of the tenants will be afraid to sneeze with being berated.

itsallaboutheL

Kipperhell wrote: »

This might not be harassment as I think there is a lot of lying. Effectively you are causing the landlord to keep coming back. If you refuse to give him the information and he keeps coming back then it may be harassment. No legal expert but I think I remember reading something about how harassment is legally defined.

Unless something else happened there is no reason he needs to know the people involved.




They should own up themselves if they are any way adult.

You pose a number of questions that i would like somebody to answer...

Why does the Landlord require the personal details of the unnamed "aggressors"?

It was hardly a criminal offence, the items were replaced, so what does he plan to do with said information, and what authority does he have to request it?

And telling them to own up...

Own up to who exactly?? why should they have any interaction with the landlord??

I don't normally venture to this side of boards but saw it on the first page, and it's a fecked up situation tbh!

D3PO

Firstly I hope your not studying english in college or your in big trouble. Ever heard of paragraphs ??

Anyway back to the point in hand it sounds like the landlord is overreacting that said I dont think you can clasify his behaviour as harrasment.

You have been lying to him causing him to continually come back to you thats not harrasment and driven by your behaviour. Why in the world did you just not tell him its none of his business who they were and if he wants to call the garda about some rice and bread then go ahead. You didnt and brough on a lot of this yourself.

as for entering the house sounds to me like the other tennants are letting him in so hes doing nothing wrong there.

Like I said I think hes overreacting but had you just stood your ground then none of this would have happened.

I suggest you hand in your notice and leave, but I dont see you being entitled to your deposit back here unless you serve out the terms of your tennancy.

And clearly your housemates are complaining about you and have a problem with you otherwise they wouldnt have complained to your landlord about the missing food.

zuroph

i still have trouble with your assertion that your housemates arent complaining about you. how did the landlord find out about the missing food??

Marina-anseo2

D3PO, yes I am an english student, a first class student at that. I don't feel the need for perfection on boards. I am not here to discuss english grammar, I'm sure there is some other thread for that...

My housemates did not complain about me, as I said earlier the girl (as in one person) who complained to the landlord did so because she is new to the house and doesn't know us very well.
Thank you to those who helped I got some legal advice and I will have the issue sorted within a week or so.

zuroph

Marina-anseo2 wrote: »

My housemates did not complain about me, as I said earlier the girl (as in one person) who complained to the landlord did so because she is new to the house and doesn't know us very well.
Thank you to those who helped I got some legal advice and I will have the issue sorted within a week or so.

so someone who lives there DID complain, and DID invite him into the house. see, you have a problem there.

let us know how you get on with this, Im not trying to pick holes in your argument, just trying to find out all the info so we can help.

the_syco

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Why does the Landlord require the personal details of the unnamed "aggressors"?

It was hardly a criminal offence, the items were replaced, so what does he plan to do with said information, and what authority does he have to request it?

No-one has yet said what was done with the pot, rice, and bread.