Unions dont care about low pay public sector employees

average_runner

Think about it.

Government will let the Unions call the strike and let them strike because the goverment wont pay the workers when on strike, unions wont be able to afford it either after one or two weeks, so the average worker will lose out and the strike will be over.

Unions should be trying to convince goverment to do the cuts base on wage salary which i think the goverment will do.


Nurses can strike but will lose again like they did 2 years ago.

Government might not be popular but at least we save some money and let the new government get on with the job in a few years after people vote.

Kensington

Of course they don't. It's exactly like the huge level of concern teachers are bandying around for their pupils when it comes to cutbacks.

If the unions really, genuinely cared for all their members, they would be actively pushing for pay cuts - mad as it may sound. Because what a lot of their members who are following the likes of Begg and O'Connor don't seem to realise is that if the government can't meet their target reductions in the wage bill through wage reductions, it will be via the only other viable alternative - job cuts.

Lots of job cuts.

dermymc

I agree - in the long run, the majority of Union member themselves suffer through overly aggressive Union Policy. There are a few reasons for this:

Fair Dues?! It should be noted that the Salaries of Senior Union Officials are very high. Worse than this, Union Membership dues actually represent an unnecessary tax on the working population. This is because all employees in Ireland are protected by law regardless of union membership or not and the advice and support that Unions offer is available free of charge from various sources: e.g. Citizens Information Centres, Dept of Ent, Trade and Employment, locally elected representatives etc.

Union advice is always tainted: Unions have a fundamental vested interested in stoking the flames of conflict between management and union members. Union policy seems to promote a paranoia in members to distrust Management and all its activities. Without paranoia and the ensuing "conflict", there is no reason for the Union to exist, no need for Union fees and no high union salaries. Union policies often do little to bridge the gulf between between Management and staff making real and open engagement difficult.

Firms without "wrecking ball" unions often work better: It is little coincidence that world class companies who lead the way in electronics, pharmaceuticals, engineering etc dont have Unions who threaten the wrecking ball. Successful companies are built on innovation, dedication, and a "can do" attitude among management and staff. Truthfully employees in good companies need little or no Union involvement (although remember, they always have the law to protect them irregardless). Progressive and ambitious employers attract, retain, train and promote the best staff.

Union Policies ignore Free-Market principles: Global trade and free market principles reward centres of production where productivity is high vis a vis costs. Like it or not, this is the system that exists and it is difficult for Ireland to opt out of this. Advocating higher wages in Ireland when wages and terms and conditions are already on a par or above the global average simply puts Irish jobs at risk. The Free Market dictates that wages will rise and fall as demand changes however protection exist for the employee in terms of minimum wage, statutory entitlements etc. Unfortunately Union Leaders only ever seek pay and condition equality with those employees (nationally or internationally) that are better off than Irish worker. Without getting realistic about the global challenges Unions will only push Ireland further and further into uncompetitiveness. For example: Union Policy typically ignores changes in international industry norms (low cost airline carriers versus the dead duck Aer Lingus). If change doesnt occur in organisations, the organisation dies.

Union Leader Inflexibility costs all hard working Public Sector Workers: Union policies and inflexibility as regards, hiring, firing, inefficiency improvements and real wage benchmarking restrict necessary reform of wasteful Public Sector positions and Departments. Therefore, instead of working to erradicate overstaffing, over remuneration and inefficiency in wasteful Public Sector positions and departments, Unions prevent this (often by threatening all out strike across the board). Therefore the Government hand is forced: as an alternative to reform, they look to inflict broad wage decreases across the board to reduce overall costs. This affects all Public Sector workers, not just those whose positions are not viable.

Inefficiency in Civil Service, actively ignored by Union Leaders, costs ALL workers more in higher taxes to fund the inefficiency. Despite gross and wanton waste, Union Leaders are doing nothing to encourage an environment of open, honest debate in public sector reform. All workers and union members suffer high tax rates to fund an inefficient public service. If the public sector was efficient Ireland would have an entirely different fiscal situation now. We all know that administration in the Public Service is over-staffed, stop pretending it doesnt exist.

Unions Cry Wolf! The General Public often find it hard to believe Union Leaders - they've been crying wolf for years. They only ever look for wage increases, they never admit or proactively engage to reduce inefficiencies or employee levels, any reform or change in work practise is fought tooth and nail.

It's all ME ME ME! Union philosophy is shortsighted at present. They ignore the needs of employers yet without a successful employer, the prospects for staff are poor. Unions really need to encourage employees to work and engage closely with Management. Unions are in an influential position to help stakeholders to develop engaging work environments, to implement policies that reward initiative, to suggest policies that save money and increase the long term viability of jobs and prospects. To date Unions havent been brave enough to operate in this way, instead playing the blame game when things go wrong and companies fail.

Historic Causes for Union Existence: many of the issues that built the Unions in the first instance no longer exist. Employees are afforded good protection in work and social welfare protection out of work.

Proof of the Pudding: Unions maintain that the "bossman", the "fat-cat" and the capitalist have benefited at the cost of the worker, while arguing that Union policies would benefit both firm and employee. Therefore it stands to sense that with the combined intellect and shrewd abilities of the likes of ICTU and SIPTU, they could easily take on the challenge of running real businesses - the profit they would undoubtedly make could be reinvested for Union member or paid to Union members in dividends.

No Union Involvement Guarantee's a win win situation for the public: Despite the fact that some profitable companies fail to reward employees with increased terms and conditions the public never looses. This is because heavily profitable companies are taxed heavily thus filling the Government coffers. Even the fat cats and directors who take large lump sum bonuses are in fact taxed at over 50% in real terms. (And of course, companies who fail to recognise the inherrent value of their employees never last long, their employees are attracted elsewhere and the company contracts.)

Union Policy can encourage a sense of helplessness within workers. We've heard of the Bus Eireann drivers who refuse to fill up their own diesel - this type of mind numbing inflexibility is outdated and serves no purposes. Union policies restrict advancement by progressive, enthusiastic workers who want to "get on with the job" but who are alienated by Union members of staff who want conflict.

Unions need to change: Its times Unions looked closely at their role in society and companies. I believe that much of Union activity as spelt out above is simply misdirected effort. At best Union energy is targetted at fire fighting. By working to create better companies, employees could benefit much more. There is a real role for Unions in participating in real mediation and negotiations with employers. In addition by working to provide additional pension schemes, investment vehicles, lending and credit facilties for their member, the Unions could offer real and beneficial services for their members. Its time Unions changed with the times. Unions need to work with employers to set up their income streams to reward Unions for advances in productivity, company profitability.

spank_inferno

Very good post

But I do disagree somewhat.
And the reason for that is Greed.

Pur and simple, a very base instinct, most people are greedy.
And those that have something are greedy for more.

Most employers arent the elightened employers like Intel or Google.

Without the possible threat of withdrawl of labour the people are left too vulnerable whater the statute books say about employee rights.

I think the unions have a role.
But decades of government ineptitude and cowardice have left the unions too big for their boots.

Regarding the OP
I dont think the unions are uncarring to their lower paid members.
Those lower paid members can turn on them if they arent satisfied.

old boy

every thing goes with the most of the higher paid workers and union officials bar COMMON SENSE.:eek:

Euro_Kraut

I think its worth noting that not all Public Sector workers are represented by the same Union.

For example take the Civil Service:

CSPU: Lower paid Clerical Staff earning between e22,000 to e35,000 (circa 15,000 members)
PSEU: Mid level management grade earning between e33,000 to e60,000 (circa 10,000 members)
AHCS: Higher management grade earning e70,000 to e200,000 (circa 3,000)

The priorities of these Unions are not the same. Nor are they the same as other Public Sector Unions. For example overtime pay is not an issue for Civil Service but it is for Nursing and Garda Unions.

SO saying that all Unions do not care about lower paid workers is clearly untrue - The CSPU clearly do. However to say that they all do care is also clearly not true - The AHCS are mandated to care only about higher paid workers.

I think sweeping statements such as this thread title are unhelpful and inaccurate.

leninbenjamin

low pay public sector employee's are some of the most overpayed in the entire sector. jobs that would be paid minimum wage in the private sector can be paid double that in the public.

spank_inferno

Perhaps the OP refers to Siptu, they would be the biggest union across all public servants wouldnt they?

old boy

i have just seen a nurse on the news saying that they can emigrate to faraway lands, and get jobs at better rates than over here, in the u.s. for instance you have to pay both state and federal taxes, higher rent higher cost of living, i do not know about aussie or the arabic nations, is this girl correct or is she on a p.r. exercise.

dan_d

jeez, dermymc, good post. I'm in the construction industry, and I'm reading all your points - and thinking of exactly how I've seen them all proven in the last few years, with the unions on building sites.
And the point about greed is good too - but it ties in. The biggest reason that unions are surviving so strongly is that people are greedy and unions get them what they want. But it doesn't take away from the fact that they are now malfunctioning in all the ways listed. There is a huge culture of knowing all your rights out there....but not wanting to know about the responsibilities that go with them. (obviously I'm mainly referring to my experience of unions in the private sector)

diverdriver

i have just seen a nurse on the news saying that they can emigrate to faraway lands, and get jobs at better rates than over here

I saw her as well and said to to myself, 'Dream on, girl'. In other countries you'll earn every penny of those wages assuming they were higher which I doubt. She doesn't know what she's talking about like so many of them. If she even moved to the private sector nursing here, she might get a shock.

The problem with the supposedly lower paid public servants is that they're mostly not lower paid at all considering the jobs they do. €35k is not low paid. Boy would I like to earn that much in a year. On top of that many of these 'lower paid' workers ultimately make it up with overtime, often unneccessary overtime. Worse still many of these low paid jobs shouldn't exist at all. In many private hospitals for example there are no hospital porters. The nurses do it themselves. There are any number of examples of jobs that have no purpose. In the private sector that is dealt with by redundancies. In the public sector nothing is done.

Do unions care about low paid workers. Indeed I think the do. But their actions are often detrimental to their members at the end of the day. Dermymc covered it well in his piece, which should be required reading for some people. Union inflexibility and work practices, demarcation etc always have a detrimental effect on the employer sometimes to the point where the employer often takes the easy option of redundancies or simply closing down. My Father, a lifelong union man and shop steward at a time when workers were truly exploited, sadly acknowledged this to one of his friends at the end of his life. He concluded that the unions, in trying to protect their narrow interest actually damaged and held back the economic growth of this country. They're still at it.

In a hospital I know of, you cannot change a light bulb. It must be done by an electrician who only shows up when he feels like it. So the staff buy their own and replace them themselves. If the electrician ever found out, he would promptly walk out and industrial action would follow. The absurdity of it is evident to everyone except the unions and this electrician.

The unions reason for existence has gone, they are now a danger and a detriment to their own members and the rest of us. If that wasn't obvious to you before they started this opposition campaign then it should be obvious now. They would destroy this country if they had their way.

The only ray of hope, I see is that most of the public service probably have realised this too. We'll see.