What is happening to us all?

Babooshka

Hi

I suppose I just need to get this out, and humanities seemed like the obvious choice, I don't think it's R&R because I want to know what everyone else thinks and not just agree with me necessarily. The old irony of technological advancement, yet how it has managed to turn us into uncommunicative and possibly emotional retards, perhaps has just struck me reading some of the issues in personal and relationship issues.

I just see so much of this "eh, so, like what is he thinking, cos, like, he put a comment on my facebook, and I, like, don't, like know, like what he, like, means....so like can you, a like, random, like, stranger, tell me exactly what my boyfriend is like, thinking".... and I despair. I do not "do" facebook, do not do any social networking at all apart from this really, and this is only because my job is very quiet these days. (Shhhhhhh )

Anyway, if I have questions for my friends, I ask them, on the phone, or face to face if the converstion requires a little more intimacy. I have never been upset by seeing an ex boyfriends relationship status go from single to not single any more, 5 minutes after breaking up with me, thank God. I do not read every waking thought of any friend, acquaintance or otherwise, because I don't want to know what they just did for their breakfast or who they're hanging around with tonight.

My question is, am I just paying attention to too many teenagers rants on this site or are the majority of adults living this way nowadays as well? Does anyone else feel like we're somehow getting it wrong and that the very methods (or abuse) of advanced communications are letting future generations down, and that communicating should now be a full curriculum in school? Am I just being an old fart? I am probably left behind, but happy to be anyway...:D I just think that it's all gone so, like totally(!!) ...Is it just because I'm older than the average age of users here and used to write letters with a pen and paper to my friends, and sometimes still do?! What do you all think?

miec

Hi Babooshka

Good thread to begin with and I don't know whether it is an age thing, considering I remember when Kate Bush sang Babooshka and it was a hit so that will give you some idea of my age category, but, as to whether the art of communication is dying, I am not sure but it is changing and I worry that human intimacy could be lost in the process.

The thing about the internet is that it allows you to be both personal and distant at the same time. You can tell the entire world what you ate for breakfast and at the same time dump someone via facebook without personally experiencing the same emotional fall out that you get when you dump someone face to face.

I think social networking websites are changing how we relate to one another but I think there can be a danger of throwing the baby out of the bathwater. I think boards.ie is brilliant way of debating ideas or discussing problems and social networking sites can be great for keeping in touch with old friends but like you I worry about the dangers of these.

For a start you can give too much away of yourself online, leaving yourself wide open for all to view and judge you with the added factor of not knowing how to interact in real life situations. I have often wondered whether using the internet excessively inhibits ones social skills. Can many younger people compose and write interesting letters? I don't know.

A lot of people that use Facebook, Twitter etc or dating sites tend to talk at you instead of to you. What I mean is that they tell you what they are up to, assume an intimacy that has not been built up yet and there can be a lack of personal boundaries. How does one set up boundaries when the main form of communication is through a computer or other electronic communication device?

I agree with you about how some people deal with relationships, well mainly communication issues with others and they tend to place too much emphasis on texts or comments in social networking sites, they analyse these instead of asking the person directly what their thoughts are on a given situation.

It possibly is an age thing or a change thing? I don't know, what I do know is that we are undergoing a communications revolution at the moment and it is pretty damn scary at times.

Babooshka

Miec thanks for your input. Yes, I love the aul Kate myself hence the name. Anyways, you make some very interesting points above.
Yep, a communications metamorphosis as well as revolution. Isn't it funny how things go? Maybe in a few short years our great grandkids will be looking at these funny paper letter thing yokes that their great grannies used to post to each other (in museums), without so much as the click of a mouse.

Maybe it is better that there's somewhere people can ask their confidential questions in disguise anyway, maybe it's the modern day agony aunt pages, it just seems like with the onset of so much access to other people's thoughts, views and opinions that people are now either afraid of, or not even aware of their intuition a lot of the time. Or maybe it just looks that way, anyway thanks for your thoughts and comments - B

Hanumanmaman

To be honest I reckon this whole phenomenon of communicating through Facebook, Bebo, Twitter, blah, blah is a fad. I'm not saying it will all fade into nothin in a year or so but I do think its popularity will wane considerably over the next few years. Like everything else that becomes sooooo popular it can't possible maintain the devotion it has at the moment.
Does anyone rememer how popular thos minicall thingys were for about a year about 12/14 years ago....?
I also think it is very much age related. People in their teens/early 20's obviously depend on it quite a bit for communication of emotions, to track relationships etc but once you go over a cerain age I think this way must seem a bit juvenile (No offence intended to anyone in their teen/20's).
If it's a real grown-up relationship you are deffo not gonna be checkin the internet to see how things are going are you

Babooshka

Hanumanmaman wrote: »

If it's a real grown-up relationship you are deffo not gonna be checkin the internet to see how things are going are you

I thought that too ...But....apart from the initial thing I've noticed about the "here's my scenario, so... what is my boyfirend thinking ....now you tell me?" which may well be a relatively young girl which you can understand easy enough. Then I came across people in their mid thirties and forties who split up from a marriage and check their ex's status etc.
Probably not the norm but anyway.

A fad..maybe, we'll see what they come up with next. No doubt it will make social networking seem old fashioned.

Dankoozy

Babooshka wrote: »

Hi

I suppose I just need to get this out, and humanities seemed like the obvious choice, I don't think it's R&R because I want to know what everyone else thinks and not just agree with me necessarily. The old irony of technological advancement, yet how it has managed to turn us into uncommunicative and possibly emotional retards, perhaps has just struck me reading some of the issues in personal and relationship issues.

I just see so much of this "eh, so, like what is he thinking, cos, like, he put a comment on my facebook, and I, like, don't, like know, like what he, like, means....so like can you, a like, random, like, stranger, tell me exactly what my boyfriend is like, thinking".... and I despair. I do not "do" facebook, do not do any social networking at all apart from this really, and this is only because my job is very quiet these days. (Shhhhhhh )

Anyway, if I have questions for my friends, I ask them, on the phone, or face to face if the converstion requires a little more intimacy. I have never been upset by seeing an ex boyfriends relationship status go from single to not single any more, 5 minutes after breaking up with me, thank God. I do not read every waking thought of any friend, acquaintance or otherwise, because I don't want to know what they just did for their breakfast or who they're hanging around with tonight.

My question is, am I just paying attention to too many teenagers rants on this site or are the majority of adults living this way nowadays as well? Does anyone else feel like we're somehow getting it wrong and that the very methods (or abuse) of advanced communications are letting future generations down, and that communicating should now be a full curriculum in school? Am I just being an old fart? I am probably left behind, but happy to be anyway...:D I just think that it's all gone so, like totally(!!) ...Is it just because I'm older than the average age of users here and used to write letters with a pen and paper to my friends, and sometimes still do?! What do you all think?

First of all, excellent thread. i'm pretty sure the phenomenon you are seeing "like, omg, wow, i'm really caught for words here!" has something to do with the way people now feel more uncomfortable with communicating in real life or even over the phone because they are used to doing things from the safety and comfort of their own screen where no immediate reply is required.

extensive facebook/sms use makes people very cowardly, they become unable to deal with confrontation in real life. if they feel the need to actually tell someone a thing they don't want to hear they will wait till they are at home behind a screen well outside the reach of that person to tell them.

its a complete pain in the arse for me, i have given up on social networking sites because of things like this. now I regularly have people who start to ignore me over silly things and of course if I make any reasonable (or what would have been considered reasonable 15 years ago) attempt to contact them i'm accused of being a stalker. social network sites are great for starting gossip, drama "Did you see who changed their status from Single to taken 5 times today!!?!?!?!likeomgwtfbbq"

facebook actively encourages this passive and cowardly behaviour - someone unfriends you, no way to find out unless you remember or use a special script. only 'positive' notifications are shown. someone has a whole bunch of pics they dont want you to see? you won't even know they exist.

the only way around it is to not use social networking and insist on actual real life face to face meetings for stuff that actually matters. they won't be able to sit down and spend a long time thinking of a reply, consult their friend or go around showing people what you said to them. actual text only counts for a tiny percentage of the message. i think 9 r 11%. if someone tries to bluff you its pretty easy to tell especially now that the bar has been lowered so much

also a few articles on the subject you might be interested in
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/94732/modern_communication_devices_breed.html

http://www.cracked.com/article_15231_7-reasons-21st-century-making-you-miserable.html

Red Hand

Hanumanmaman wrote: »

To be honest I reckon this whole phenomenon of communicating through Facebook, Bebo, Twitter, blah, blah is a fad. I'm not saying it will all fade into nothin in a year or so but I do think its popularity will wane considerably over the next few years. Like everything else that becomes sooooo popular it can't possible maintain the devotion it has at the moment.
Does anyone rememer how popular thos minicall thingys were for about a year about 12/14 years ago....?
I also think it is very much age related. People in their teens/early 20's obviously depend on it quite a bit for communication of emotions, to track relationships etc but once you go over a cerain age I think this way must seem a bit juvenile (No offence intended to anyone in their teen/20's).
If it's a real grown-up relationship you are deffo not gonna be checkin the internet to see how things are going are you

I agree with some of what's said here. I think this social network thing is a bit of a fad. I don't have a bebo or a facebook page, but see other people who have "moved on" from bebo to facebook, as if one is more mature than the other. It seems like a lot of hassle that I can do without.

Like, for instance, this website-I thought it was brilliant when I first started cause I hadn't much experience of the internet, but now a few years later, after reading and posting so much, I wouldn't honestly be bothered if it shut done, as long as I was able to stay in contact with one or two people.

Ironically, staying in contact with those same people by the odd face to face meeting would preferable than private messaging which is what I'm doing now, but that's beside the point.:pac:

nozzferrahhtoo

At age 30 I think I managed to come in to this internet thing at a funny border. I think I have been through three generation stages.

I remember writing letters around age 18-20 to friends. 20 page hand written letters, buying and licking actual stamps and envelopes, walking to the post box and the wonderful feel of something real in your hands which you can touch and smell when you get the reply. Not to mention the wonderfully theraputic process of burning all the letters from an ex- as a symbollic removal of them from your life and moving on (the delete button will never have the same effect).

This was slowly destroyed by email and chat rooms and I relate to those who say “What ever happened to the written word”.

The reason I mention my age is that I have friends only slightly younger. 27/28 and they never wrote a letter in their life to a friend, it has all been email for them. I feel I have come in on the border just as the written word was finally dying off.

I have experienced a funny thing though, where in forums and chat rooms if someone wants to talk to you, see a picture of you etc they no longer ask for emails. They ask if you use MSN or ICQ as if it is a given that not only do you have it, but you also have your picture up on it and a webcam connected for further chat. I have signed into chat rooms in passing and had people say to me “Hi… how are you…. What is your MSN address please”.

If you say no and you will email them the picture/information they look at you funny as if they never thought of it. In fact I am genuinely convinced that many users of MSN do not even realise there is an associated email address that can be used, nor would they even know how to use it.

So I am feeling old, like I have gone through 3 generations of it all. No longer am I saying “What ever happened to the written word?” I find myself now even saying “Whatever happened to email?”

I wonder what will replace it all that will leave people younger than me saying “Wow, whatever happened to instant messaging and social networking sites”.

Babooshka

Hi all

Sorry but I only log in here in the daytime. Very interesting points Dankoozy especially about text only being a small percentage of a message..it's the same as the spoken word isn't it? you watch someone's body language when they tell you something and in what context it's in, so yes I'd have to agree with you, maybe that is why a lot of people have lost that particular sense, they don't get to use it any more.

I'm really heartened that you all found the topic an interesting one, I was beginning to feel like an outdated dinosaur most people roll their eyes at for being so old fashioned. I am only 36 by the way, I realise I may sound so much older from what I've typed so far. It makes me a bit sad sometimes, and yes well frustrated that instead of these things making us more advanced in our communicating skills with each other it seems to be stunting them. Interesting chatting to you all anyways and reading your views on it. Thanks for respondng and keep them coming if you feel the urge

miec

I remember the humble letter too In actual fact as a kid and teenager I signed up to a penpal service and had penpals all over the world. It was so exciting then getting letters, feeling I was in touch with other cultures. I can still remember the thrill of that and it is weird because we are so global now that that is all gone now.

deathstarkiller

I'm 36 and I have also gone through all the different forms throughout the years. Letters, chatrooms, texting, emails, forums and social networking. I actually embrace it all as it comes along and enjoy it. I do see the downside to it all but I think it's up to people themselves to learn to deal with the real world. Facebook is like a way of letting your friends in to your own little world, you can show off your photos of a holiday in one go without ever having to bore them by showing them one physical photo at a time or you can post a silly status update about whatever you like, etc.
Now maybe it is because I'm older that I would never read much into anything like someone changing their status from single to seeing someone, etc. I'd also never discuss anything serious openly, that would be for email. For me it's just a bit of fun, a way of sharing with friends things you like and don't. I also see it as a great way of organising events or nights out with friends.
I use Twitter a bit too but not as much. At first I thought it was fascinating to see what certain movie/tv stars were up to but I got bored of it and realised it was only actual friends I cared about so I mainly use Twitter for my friends.

Dankoozy

miec wrote: »

I remember the humble letter too In actual fact as a kid and teenager I signed up to a penpal service and had penpals all over the world. It was so exciting then getting letters, feeling I was in touch with other cultures. I can still remember the thrill of that and it is weird because we are so global now that that is all gone now.

the problem is now if I write a letter and send it to some girl i know the reaction wouldnt be that good

"omg, you will never guess... "
"he sent me an actual letter, what a weirdo"
"arrived at my house, he spent that much trouble actually writing that, and putting it into an envelope, and writing *my own address* on it and then he spent a whole 80c or whatever An Post rips people off with now and actually like omg put it into a letter box"
"such a stalker, who spends that much effort on writing a *letter* in (year)"

i'm wondering what would happen if i made a cylinder out of clay and engraved a message into it and sent it by courier. like the cyrus cylinder. this yoke



unless i was freaking married to the girl I sent it to I'd be picked up and hauled straight to Portlaoise prison without trial and I wouldn't get out of there for at least 15 years

Valmont

I think you're all getting a bit carried away. I use facebook primarily to keep in touch and to chat with the friends I made whilst in America and to have a place where friends can see my pictures that they may be in. Before you say "oh you'll just get bored of that after a while", I should say that some old friends I met in Alaska recently passed through Dublin and we met up and had a fine day; all thanks to the communication of information through facebook. Yes, this could have been done via email or even if they sent me a telegraph but it's just so easy to use that I see the benefits positively outweighing the negatives. I agree however, that some people spend a disproportionate amount of time posting and reading inane comments.

Valmont

miec wrote: »

I can still remember the thrill of that and it is weird because we are so global now that that is all gone now.

Come on. As far as I know, there are still many distinct cultures in the world:eek:. I feel excited when I get an email from my friend in Vienna or my cousin in Washington state so I don't think "that's all gone now".

Babooshka

deathstarkiller wrote: »

I'm 36 and I have also gone through all the different forms throughout the years. Letters, chatrooms, texting, emails, forums and social networking. I actually embrace it all as it comes along and enjoy it. I do see the downside to it all but I think it's up to people themselves to learn to deal with the real world. Facebook is like a way of letting your friends in to your own little world, you can show off your photos of a holiday in one go without ever having to bore them by showing them one physical photo at a time or you can post a silly status update about whatever you like, etc.
Now maybe it is because I'm older that I would never read much into anything like someone changing their status from single to seeing someone, etc. I'd also never discuss anything serious openly, that would be for email. For me it's just a bit of fun, a way of sharing with friends things you like and don't. I also see it as a great way of organising events or nights out with friends.
I use Twitter a bit too but not as much. At first I thought it was fascinating to see what certain movie/tv stars were up to but I got bored of it and realised it was only actual friends I cared about so I mainly use Twitter for my friends.

That's the healthy way of using it which is great. I only started the thread bemoaning the destructive side of it but now I see the good it could do so thanks:)

Valmont there's nothing wrong with being excited about getting an email and I know I do too.

Primarily the thread was opened asking do the majority of people feel that generations to come will be less able to use their god given natural instincts for how they and others around them feel, due to technology retarding their ability to use their intuition because it's a sense they're getting to use less and less, because they have less intimate contact due to what primarily and ironically was invented to give them more...phew!

But I do see what you mean, no need to get too carried away worrying about it . . . I suppose there will be different facets like everything else. Maybe the new intuition is ....untuition

CPT. SURF

If the predictions in the OP come to fruition, will it not be the case that the individuals who maintain and continuously sharpen their innate social abilities will have a distinct upper hand in the future when it comes to friendship, human communication, relationships, and professional endeavors?

DeVore

Interesting thread.... babooshka, I hear what you are saying... with less physical interaction we have stripped away contact and so have retarded the ability of non-verbal communication interpretation.

Thats probably true, but there is also the Law of Unintended Consequences and I think we will see other skills develop. Let me give you a specific example: I can tell from how someone writes what their intentions and characteristics with rather disturbing accuracy
I've just been adminning this site for so long and dealt with so many threads and users that I could do it in my sleep. I also try (with some success) to write clearly and to express myself as clearly as possible. Doing that has greatly increased my writing skills, a skill long ignored in modern society before the internet...

What is emerging now, particularly on sites like this, is a meritocracy where you're social standing is based on your capacity to write well and to make rational, clear points. That is not emerging naturally, we are guiding that with our moderation policy. If we didnt, well... we'd be 4chan or youtube.... god forbid.

DeV.

Valmont

DeVore wrote: »

What is emerging now, particularly on sites like this, is a meritocracy where you're social standing is based on your capacity to write well and to make rational, clear points... alternatively we have After Hours

Fixed your post:D

DeVore

But propagated my use of "you're" for "your".... it burns us...it burnssss usssss....

If we didn't have AH the type of user who uses it would be spread, shotgun-like across the site. Right now its gathered in one place (and very popular it is too, so who is to say its "wrong") and so can be avoided handily. All content has a place, its just a matter of proper indexing and categorisation

I think its very easy to decry the lack of social interaction but the truth might be stranger then you think. Facebook and Twitter and Boards do also promote social contacts. just look at the drama group or the cycling forum on Boards... many people have made new friends and been exposed to new social activities through social media...

DeV.

Latchy

Babooshka wrote: »

Hi

I suppose I just need to get this out, and humanities seemed like the obvious choice, I don't think it's R&R because I want to know what everyone else thinks and not just agree with me necessarily. The old irony of technological advancement, yet how it has managed to turn us into uncommunicative and possibly emotional retards, perhaps has just struck me reading some of the issues in personal and relationship issues.

I just see so much of this "eh, so, like what is he thinking, cos, like, he put a comment on my facebook, and I, like, don't, like know, like what he, like, means....so like can you, a like, random, like, stranger, tell me exactly what my boyfriend is like, thinking".... and I despair. I do not "do" facebook, do not do any social networking at all apart from this really, and this is only because my job is very quiet these days. (Shhhhhhh )

Anyway, if I have questions for my friends, I ask them, on the phone, or face to face if the converstion requires a little more intimacy. I have never been upset by seeing an ex boyfriends relationship status go from single to not single any more, 5 minutes after breaking up with me, thank God. I do not read every waking thought of any friend, acquaintance or otherwise, because I don't want to know what they just did for their breakfast or who they're hanging around with tonight.

My question is, am I just paying attention to too many teenagers rants on this site or are the majority of adults living this way nowadays as well? Does anyone else feel like we're somehow getting it wrong and that the very methods (or abuse) of advanced communications are letting future generations down, and that communicating should now be a full curriculum in school? Am I just being an old fart? I am probably left behind, but happy to be anyway...:D I just think that it's all gone so, like totally(!!) ...Is it just because I'm older than the average age of users here and used to write letters with a pen and paper to my friends, and sometimes still do?! What do you all think?

Exellent thread Babooshka and some really good follow up posts ,a lot which makes sense and makes understanding what is happenning to us .

I to remember Baboooska first time around to

Valmont

DeVore wrote: »

If we didn't have AH the type of user who uses it would be spread, shotgun-like across the site. Right now its gathered in one place (and very popular it is too, so who is to say its "wrong")

Oh I don't dislike AH in and of itself, I'm usually waist deep in some mad argument in AH anyway, it has its charms.

Azelfafage

Technologists and Scientists need but one or two lines.

Arty types go on forever............saying nothing at all.
.

Babooshka

Latchy wrote: »

Exellent thread Babooshka and some really good follow up posts ,a lot which makes sense and makes understanding what is happenning to us .

I to remember Baboooska first time around to

I'm so happy to be finding more people who remember her...mark my words they'll do an x-factor on it one day and some 15 yr old willl think it was the 15 yr old singing it who wrote it...:mad:...for another thread...oops sorry!!

Azelfafage wrote: »

Technologists and Scientists need but one or two lines.

Arty types go on forever............saying nothing at all.
.

As for your gem of wisdom.... , ...well away with you to the science fora as humanities obviously doesn't float your boat.

Thanks all for inputting....I don't really have any more thoughts to add but all of your points have been helpful in concluding that, like everything, there are two sides (I'm being very general.... before anyone decides to jump in with the term "sweeping generalisation" and I have to thump them, humanitites or not )to social interaction on the internet. I'll keep reading ...

johnnyskeleton

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

This was slowly destroyed by email and chat rooms and I relate to those who say “What ever happened to the written word”.

The reason I mention my age is that I have friends only slightly younger. 27/28 and they never wrote a letter in their life to a friend, it has all been email for them. I feel I have come in on the border just as the written word was finally dying off.

I'm not sure what exactly the significance of a handwritten letter actually is. Love letters scented with perfume from your beau when you're fighting in the war is one thing, but if I have a friend living in another country, the fact that I can contact them almost instantly over the internet rather than the long waits and uncertainties of regular post makes email infinately superior. I also think that as I can type faster and there is no limit to the amount of text that can be put in an email, you could actually say that the internet makes us more communicative.

I wonder when paper first came into vogue, did people who could then write whole letters look back with nostalgia about the forced economy of expression that goes with carving your message into a stone tablet/sending smoke signals etc?