What say ye on the Green's latest pie-in-the-sky idea....

galwaytt

...they're going to 'make' people use E85/whatever, by forcing 4% of fuel to be 'biofuel' ?

Like, how ? I roll up to the pumps, my car can't/I won't use it..........and, what, some guy from the Dept is going to jump out from behind the pump and make me buy it?

Complete and utter morons.

unkel

galwaytt wrote: »

by forcing 4% of fuel to be 'biofuel' ?

Isn't all / most petrol E5 (5% biofuel) anyway nowadays?

junkyard

The sooner these f**king idiots are dragged through the streets the better and they can rope in their buddies from Fianna Fail and the bankers to for good measure, we need to do what they did in Iceland, the whole country should just down tools and march in masse to the dail and order them out of office, it's gone way beyond a joke now.:mad:

galwaytt

...no idea, but the idea of forcing the market in one way or another..........hold on, what about the EU competition crowd ?

junkyard

Rules??? They only bring in the cr@p rules here and none of the good stuff

Owen

I'd love to get Gormless and co, and everytime they bring in another stupid idea like this, send them links to youtube videos where I fill my car with petrol, drive the living hell out of it, and let it fill the earth with Co2. Then I'll cut down a few trees. Probably kill a Panda or 2 after that.

Why does the Irish motorist get raped so much so often?

junkyard

Because we let them, if we all took a stand against them there might be some hope. All you have to do is look around and see the mess the government has made of everything in this country, motor trade, taxis, building, fishing, airlines, farming, health, education, etc etc. it's time to revolt and everyone knows it but won't make a move. And the governments solution? More taxes, it make my blood boil!!!!:mad:

L1011

unkel wrote: »

Isn't all / most petrol E5 (5% biofuel) anyway nowadays?

Generally. And all diesel sold by Maxol and maybe others in the North is B5. B5 meets the standards for road diesel (just) so can be sold without needing to notify/change anything.

daveharnett

galwaytt wrote: »

...they're going to 'make' people use E85/whatever, by forcing 4% of fuel to be 'biofuel' ?

Like, how ? I roll up to the pumps, my car can't/I won't use it..........and, what, some guy from the Dept is going to jump out from behind the pump and make me buy it?

Complete and utter morons.

Apart from being another imposition on motorists, biofuel is environmentally and socially catostrophic. What are they playing at?

cson

They'd be much better addressing the huge public transport issue Ireland has, or rather lack thereof. Car dependancy here is at ridiculous levels.

squod

John Gormley looks like such a nice fellow. But I just know that if he comes into contact with water.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h24CFZqSEAA

......he turns into a green monster!

bazz26

cson wrote: »

They'd be much better addressing the huge public transport issue Ireland has, or rather lack thereof. Car dependancy here is at ridiculous levels.

Blasphemy on a motors forum. We like our cars.

CharlieCroker

bazz26 wrote: »

Blasphemy on a motors forum. We like our cars.

I agree, I'd much rather have good, clean, spacious and cheap public transport system to work and have my car for evening and weekends on quiet roads to just have a blast rather than sitting in traffic and then trying to find parking.

At least then i could have a proper fun car that i could look forward to driving for the craic.

cson

Indeed, a bit of hitting a beehive with a baseball bat with that comment! On a serious note though, they'd solve a lot of their issues with CO2 etc by simply giving people an alternative method of transport which means they could then reduce the tax on Petrol/Diesel...

In an ideal world of course.

Pride Fighter

I wonder if the limo Gormley used to drive from London-Wales to get a ferry used 5% bio-ethanol?

They guy is a useless idiot. He could have gotten a plane for 20 euro instead of wasting taxpayers money like that. I'd say the carbon footprint of the plane journey would be lower too.

Matt Simis

daveharnett wrote: »

Apart from being another imposition on motorists, biofuel is environmentally and socially catostrophic. What are they playing at?

First link: "Use of U.S. Croplands for Biofuels Increases Greenhouse Gases Through Emissions from Land-Use Change"
Hi there. This might shock and alarm you, but we dont live in the US and what they do to their farmland is their problem. Our Ethanol is from waste product in Cork.

galwaytt wrote: »

...they're going to 'make' people use E85/whatever, by forcing 4% of fuel to be 'biofuel' ?
Like, how ? I roll up to the pumps, my car can't/I won't use it..........and, what, some guy from the Dept is going to jump out from behind the pump and make me buy it?

Complete and utter morons.

While I get you/we dont like the Green party, that doesn't mean everything they spout is automatically bad. Its clear you dont know what Biofuels are. Assuming your car is designed after the early 90s (though cars after the early 80s in practice) it has been designed to use ethanol blends.

You didnt provide a link, but I assume how this would be implemented would be to blend it into all fuel, ie "E4".
Maxol are already selling 5% Ethanol in their fuel. The benefit to the motorist was 99.2 Octane fuel at no extra increase in cost. 4% is such a small amount the impact will be negligible all round.

The fuel you buy already contains certain additives, the milk you buy is treated in a certain way, you are already made buy things made a certain way.

galwaytt wrote: »

...no idea, but the idea of forcing the market in one way or another..........hold on, what about the EU competition crowd ?

If everyone is made change then there is no competition element. Also, the EU themselves previously wanted 10% Biofuels across the states. This was reduced as production couldnt meet demand.

L1011

Matt Simis wrote: »

Our Ethanol is from waste product in Cork.

However, biodiesel isn't made with ethanol....

Matt Simis

MYOB wrote: »

However, biodiesel isn't made with ethanol....

And? The sources for Veg Oil from Biodiesel are even more varied and ecofriendly. From purpose grown crops to the massive amount of "used" Veg oil from the food industry, its all used in Biodiesel production. We just happen to be years behind Europe on this as our Government has upto this point operated a "boys club" on issueing grants and didnt reduce tax on Biofuels as would be the norm elsewhere.

Regardless, we have far more farmland than food demand, if they grow part of the fuel here and support our local economy, its win win.

Skyuser

Its starting to feel like tree hugging eco warriors are running the country. Also why does Ryan always have that grin on his face like he's just fooled someone into doing something.

JHMEG

Two nicely put posts there, matt.

Ireland is playing catch-up with the rest of the developed world who have been blending bio-fuels with fossil fuels for a while now.

Drummerboy08

junkyard wrote: »

Because we let them, if we all took a stand against them there might be some hope. All you have to do is look around and see the mess the government has made of everything in this country, motor trade, taxis, building, fishing, airlines, farming, health, education, etc etc. it's time to revolt and everyone knows it but won't make a move. And the governments solution? More taxes, it make my blood boil!!!!:mad:

Why dont we then? Boards.ie is the perfect platform to launch a protest.

JHMEG

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Why dont we then? Boards.ie is the perfect platform to launch a protest.

Why don't we what? Protest against a mandatory minimum mix of 4% bio-fuel?

metzengerstein

complete dopes ,i like that idea of downing tools and storming the government buildings .in a way though its the peoples fault also,they goverment keep making this country worse and people keep voting them in again ,i always spoil my vote none of them s**t w**res will ever be worthy of it.braindead morons

they say they wanna cut down on cars in the city ,but will they put more busses on routes to give a reliable service ,i doubt it ,waiting time for a bus in ireland half an hour to 40 mins ,waiting time in germany every 5-10 mns there is a bus.if they want people not too use there cars as much give us a good reason not too .

Drummerboy08

JHMEG wrote: »

Why don't we what? Protest against a mandatory minimum mix of 4% bio-fuel?

If you care to read the post I quoted above, lose your smart attitude, and wake up to see whats going on in this country, you'll see what we should be protesting against.

JHMEG

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

If you care to read the post I quoted above, lose your smart attitude, and wake up to see whats going on in this country, you'll see what we should be protesting against.

You're suggesting we protest on a thread about a mandatory mix of 4% bio-fuels.

You are free to protest against the govt in the ballot box at the next election.

Drummerboy08

JHMEG wrote: »

You're suggesting we protest on a thread about a mandatory mix of 4% bio-fuels.

If you don't like the Greens then protest in the ballot box at the next election.

Who mentioned a thread? I said Boards.ie would be a good place to launch a protest against the government, as in organising time and dates etc. Not simply voicing your concerns online. Sure we do that everyday here.

Protest in the ballot box.... Chain myself to the inside of it like?? :P

JHMEG

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Who mentioned a thread? I said Boards.ie would be a good place to launch a protest against the government, as in organising time and dates etc. Not simply voicing your concerns online. Sure we do that everyday here.

My apologies, since you were talking about protesting in a thread about bio-fuels I suspected you were talking about protesting about bio-fuels. If you want to organise a protest I'd respectfully suggest that you try a different forum to motors. Maybe politics.

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Protest in the ballot box.... Chain myself to the inside of it like?? :P

I don't know where you put your vote:p, but I put mine in the ballot box.

metzengerstein

theres hundreds of things to protest against,we should just all down tools and storm the dail and beat the crap out of them all.

muah ha ha ha ha ha

-Chris-

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Who mentioned a thread? I said Boards.ie would be a good place to launch a protest against the government, as in organising time and dates etc. Not simply voicing your concerns online. Sure we do that everyday here.

With all due respect DB, if you're not addressing the particular thread, and instead are looking to overthrow our duly-elected overlords, take it to the politics forum...

galwaytt

cson wrote: »

Car dependancy here is at ridiculous levels.

...you're dead right, it is: and the sooner we get it UP to the proper levels, based on the extortionate taxes we pay, the fuggin' better. :mad:

Darsad

This is just dopey Ryan keeping the green agenda in the news and trying to claim some credit. The greens seem to think that they are responsible for any company that sets up or employs anybody in any area that is vaguely sustainable. The european standard for road diesel is EN 590 and this can incorporate a 5% biofuel mix so no news!

stealthyspeeder

Im no tree hugging hippie, but I use Maxols E5, its all I will put in my car while in the republic as Matt Simis mentioned its got a 99 octane rating!

Why get your knickers in a twist on a motors forum about using higher octane fuel?? How about map your car for it and enjoy the performance benefits!

I hate the green party with a passion like most others on this forum but as a few have already said this is good thing. E5 is much better fuel than the crap 95ron we are feeding our cars day in day out. It is also very good news for people who have performance cars which are mapped for higher octane fuel as now it will be much easier to get higher octane fuel.

I know its impossible to get anything other than 95ron in Galway even maxol don't sell E5 in Galway so you cannot run a car that needs good fuel without a re-mapping it for 95ron, which takes away from the cars performance straight away.

no1beemerfan

Did anyone hear Gormless on Matt Cooper's Last Word last week?


Going on about how we must use public transport....

Matt .... "So how'd you get here this evening?"

Gormless.... "I'd to take the car as there wasn't a bus avaliable"


Fcuking twat. I know more people would take public transport.... IF there was a reliable and efficient one to take.

Mailman

Matt Simis wrote: »

we have far more farmland than food demand, if they grow part of the fuel here and support our local economy, its win win.

Farmland isn't a homogenous resource which can be diverted to multiple uses.
Our farmland is pasture and mostly unsuitable or at best ill-suited to the growth of vegetables and grain. The rolling fields of barley in the Irish southwest are not typical of the rest of Ireland. Ireland specialises in Beef and Dairy for a reason.
We can grow grass until the cows come home but good quality soil suitable for tillage is a relatively scarce resource in this country.
The type of soil a farm has been blessed with determines what produce a farmer grows.
A farmer might till a pasture field every few years and put a crop in it as that is good husbandry and improves the soil but that doesn't turn the field in to a good field for producing grain or beet.
In short it's not a win win and as a nation we don't have a competitive advantage in the growing of biofuel.

JHMEG

Matt can speak for himself but I think the point he was making is that bio-fuel production is not going to displace food production in Ireland any time soon, and if we used some of the vast amounts of unproductive land for growing bio-fuel crops it'd be a win-win.

Mailman

Our competitive advantage is in the area of Beef and Dairy. If unproductive land is to be diverted anywhere, it should be diverted to Beef and Dairy.
Plain simple economics.

Matt Simis

Mailman wrote: »

Farmland isn't a homogenous resource which can be diverted to multiple uses.
Our farmland is pasture and mostly unsuitable or at best ill-suited to the growth of vegetables and grain. The rolling fields of barley in the Irish southwest are not typical of the rest of Ireland. Ireland specialises in Beef and Dairy for a reason.
snipped
In short it's not a win win and as a nation we don't have a competitive advantage in the growing of biofuel.

Im not in a position to be able to identify the best uses for various land masses. But from moving out of sub-urban crawl into the midlands, 3 things have become apparent:

- There are massive amounts of unused land up for sale
- 5 Cows put onto a rent field to "do something" cannot be its best use
- From talk to farmers, they say there are less and less people in farming, its a dieing profession.


Regardless, the Ethanol in question could come from the plant in Cork, apparently they could produce far more than they do but they are hitting an EU cap in place to stop over production of some other product (the Ethanol is a by product).

Bitten & Hisses

Matt Simis wrote: »

Our Ethanol is from waste product in Cork.

Incorrect. It is produced by fermenting lactose, which is extracted from whey, which is a by-product of cheese or casein production. This lactose would end up being dried into powder for some food application if it were not used in fermentation. Yes, it is a by-product of a by-product, but certainly not derived from waste.

Mailman

Matt Simis wrote: »

Im not in a position to be able to identify the best uses for various land masses. But from moving out of sub-urban crawl into the midlands, 3 things have become apparent:

- There are massive amounts of unused land up for sale
- 5 Cows put onto a rent field to "do something" cannot be its best use
- From talk to farmers, they say there are less and less people in farming, its a dieing profession.


Regardless, the Ethanol in question could come from the plant in Cork, apparently they could produce far more than they do but they are hitting an EU cap in place to stop over production of some other product (the Ethanol is a by product).

Well I can tell you that ethanol and bio-diesel aren't the best uses of Irish land.
All you need to do is go to the Teagasc website and see the yield per hectare for various foods and then look for the price per tonne for these products. The figures don't stack up even before you start adding in the cost of fertiliser and weedkiller which need a lot of fossil fuels input in their input. Those figures are for the land already planted and suitable for tillage, not marginal land which will yield maybe only 50% of what the good land will yield.
Local agriculture industry may be finding it difficult to find a new role for itself in the new open world economy especially with CAP being phased out in the next 4 to 5 years but production of bio-fuels in a Country which doesn't have a natural competitive advantage there isn't a solution.

I remember my Uncle talking about yields on poor land. Whenever he moved his milking cattle on to the reclaimed land the yield went down between 10 and 20%. Bad land doesn't become Good land overnight and he was looking at land which had been reclaimed decades before.

The only biofuel you'll get out of our land will be a by-product from the dairy and meat rendering industries where it is a by-product that is being taken for free.
Growth of grain, beet and rapeseed are all poor uses of our land.

Matt Simis

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Incorrect. It is produced by fermenting lactose, which is extracted from whey, which is a by-product of cheese or casein production. This lactose would end up being dried into powder for some food application if it were not used in fermentation. Yes, it is a by-product of a by-product, but certainly not derived from waste.

Yep, I mistyped, I meant by product, not waste product.

Mailman wrote: »

I remember my Uncle talking about yields on poor land. Whenever he moved his milking cattle on to the reclaimed land the yield went down between 10 and 20%. Bad land doesn't become Good land overnight and he was looking at land which had been reclaimed decades before.
The only biofuel you'll get out of our land will be a by-product from the dairy and meat rendering industries where it is a by-product that is being taken for free.
Growth of grain, beet and rapeseed are all poor uses of our land.

I dunno the background to the Greens "thought process", perhaps they are only looking at CO2 figures in isolation again and/or planning to import the ethanol. I trust the farmers know what is the most profitable use of their land, I genuinely dont know enough about the real business of farming to try to make a strong case either way.

JHMEG

Mailman wrote: »

Well I can tell you that ethanol and bio-diesel aren't the best uses of Irish land.

I understand what you are saying. However I don't agree that leaving land idle is better than growing any form of bio crop. Some are less suitable than others to poor land, true.