Mixing

Zascar

I can't remember doing a thread like this before so I thought it might be a good idea... I'd like to get peoples tips, tricks, thoughts, suggestions and advice on mixing - and how to improve. Might be a useful thread for beginners too.

Like a lot of DJ's I have never really been taught anything, I worked it all out on my own. I think my mixing is pretty good but its certainly not brilliant - and I kinda wish I was a lot better. We know its not the be all and end all, but its nice to be very smooth or creative too.

People who do production I'd guess would understand more about the theory behind what it takes to do a perfect mix in many different situations. I know its hard to describe, but if anyone can detail it in a helpful way it could be good.

Different people have different styles between using the faders and eq's and then also utilising loops and also effects like filters etc.

I'll write a few of my own thoughts tomorrow but would be interested to hear yours too.

*** I've deleted all the rubbish argumentative off topic posts - This is not a Vinyl vs Digital debate, its been done to death but if you must, take it to another thread.

electrogrimey

Great idea for a tread Zascar. For me, it really depends on the track, but I use a few different methods of mixing. I don't really use a lot of effects though.
If it's just two different beats with no vocals or melody, like an intro and an outro, I might loop the tune going out, and fade out the bass slowly, only taking it out completely when the other tune kicks in.
Something else I like to do is if a tune breaks down to just a melody or vocals, I like to loop it for like 16/32 bars, then bring in the start of the next tune under it once the vocal/melody had been played through once, and maybe fade out the vocals.
Sometimes it works, on a tune that has 2/4 bars of a vocal break before the kick in, to bring the next tune in suddenly after the break (as long as it's harmonically mixed)

It really depends on the choice of tune, the main things for me are that the crowd doesn't notice the mixing, and that it doesn't get overcrowded with long intros and outros, I like to try and keep the bass going most of the way through, except for breakdowns in the middle of the tracks themselves.

Fintomiginto

Its actually very hard to put into words how one mixes.
I suppose when your doing it, you just kind of get in the zone and mix!
There is no one real way I like to mix all the time.
It totally depends on the tuneage and where I want to take the set as to how I'd mix the next tune in. I dont really use many effects. I think if you find a couple of tunes that are compatible there ain't much need for effects. One of my pet hates are djs whom over use effects and distort the true sound of the mix with effects. It can be done properly though.

If I was to put it simply, I like the one Im mixing in to gradually develop while the one Im mixing in to wind down with the 2nd track kick in when the other one ends. I know that sounds very simplistic but its the only way I can actually articulate what I do when I mix!!!

p.s I play house so it rarely happens that way!

Executive Steve

i'm quite into big dramatic bassline switches; mix a tune in, keep it quiet so the drums are just adding a ghost of a groove, or a bit more urgency, let it drop over the tune that's playing, and at the next cue point swap the basslines... simple and effective. let it run for another 32 bars and switch them back for the last bar of the sequence, all the while adjusting the mids and tops to keep things interesting.

Executive Steve

Another nice thing to do, although I think it's more of a DnB / breaks / dubstep thing, is to find tunes that, when you mix them together at the right point, will break down together and drop back in together - a "double drop". No real hard and fast rules about creating them, just experiment with your tunes and see what works!

Try never to mix in two successive tunes in the same way; if you bring a tune in by gradually fading the tops and the mids in and then slamming the bass in afterwards then try and do the next tune a little differently just to add variety to your mixes; varied mixing mightn't be as immediately noticeable as varied selection, but it will make a difference.

If you're playing stuff with complex breakbeats then listen out for sweet spots where there's a breakbeat and a bassline and no pads and try and layer them with similar sequences on another record, set your crossfader curve to a long smooth fade and just get chopping with your crossfader, try and catch the kick at the start of one break and then the snares from the break on the other record; practice playing around for a while like that and you'll be amazed at just how much you can alter the rhythm and the flow of your records using just the crossfader and a small bit of corrective eq-ing.

Digital DJ's and CD heads are well used to the idea of having cue points and what not saved - equally, you shouldn't feel you need to play every tune right from the edge of your record; don't be afraid to cue a tune from the first drop rather than from the first break.

Never bring more records to a gig than you think you want to play - the time you will save by not having to rummage through 80 records jammed tightly into your bag in the pitch dark is time better spent entertaining the people who paid a tenner in to see you.

You'll learn as much from watching the people dancing to your music as you will from listening to your mixes.

Executive Steve

Keep your headphones level as low as possible, keep your monitors as quiet as possible.

M O N T O

I've only started Djing, Laptop Dj without controllers & played One house party, haha.


But what i like to do is bring in a vocal section by turning down the Bass completely, lowering the Hi a bit. Then taking out the bass in the other while bringing in the next tracks bass.


I also do a lot of quickfire cutting When i'm playing the likes of Bloody Beetroots or Justice, Real Rock Influenced tracks sound great together when chopping forward & Back.

jtsuited

Interesting thread.

I've nothing to add really apart from the fact that generally I HATE effects and looping. Hate hearing them in a mix, have never heard them been used in a way that doesn't take away from the musical content, and generally think that they're a scourge on modern djing.

Here's the reason I hate fx in general:
Us producers spend hours and hours and years and years working on our sound, buying different bits of gear and generally just breaking our backs getting a specific sound. If we thought our tracks could be in any way enhanced by using a flanger, reverb, or filter, we probably would have used it already.

There are a lot of dj's out there who have little to no actual musical talent (hence the reason their productions are either non existent or just suck) and feel they have to somehow be 'creative' by looping the bejaysus out of tracks in their sets, while adding all manner of manky sounding effects.
But all it does is result in horrible sounding wankery that impresses about 3 people in the crowd (who haven't a notion anyway), and ruins the vibe for the 80 other people trying to have a good time.

As far as mixing goes, it's about keeping a flow going in the music, not impressing people with knob twiddling skills.

vinylbomb

jtsuited wrote: »

As far as mixing goes, it's about keeping a flow going in the music, not impressing people with knob twiddling skills.

Agreed.

Theres a load of techniques to utilise in mixing - chop and drop, long smooth seamless blends between tracks, just plain blem one track in on top of the other........

All can be equally effective or equally nauseous, depending on how/when they are used.

The most important thing is keeping things going musically. I find mixing in key to be the best way to do this, and not having been jumps in key or tone between tracks, irrespective of styles that are being mixed.

joker77

jtsuited wrote: »

I've nothing to add really apart from the fact that generally I HATE effects and looping. Hate hearing them in a mix, have never heard them been used in a way that doesn't take away from the musical content, and generally think that they're a scourge on modern djing.

+1

Ok I won't say never, as I've a guilty pleasure for hearing a bit of flange...

But in the main the mixing styles I would like would not contain effects. Progression from track to track without knowing where one starts and where the other finishes is what I'm into - I know a lot of people find that boring, but there is nothing worse for me that some dickwad at a party, who thinks he's the biz because he can get 2 vinyl in sync, starts chopping the crossfader between the 2 tracks.

electrogrimey

How do people here mix tracks with very different BPMs? Say going from a normal 128/130, to maybe dubstep or something at 140/145?

I'd normally do it by taking different tunes with increasing BPMs, get up to maybe 135 that way, then bring in the tune I'm trying to get to slow, and gradually bring it up to its tempo. Anyone have anything better?

VinylJunkie

Backspin FTW!

Riesen_Meal

Maybe its a me thing, or maybe I listened to too much progressive house in my youth, but I just love long, flowing mixes, the type that you kinda forget your listening to two tracks, im generally in the mix as much as the music allows it, I hate listening to the "Fatboy Slim" school of mixing generally, really quick, bring it in on the 8th bar, drop the bass, hold your mix for twelve seconds, then overpower the track playing with the bass of the one your bringin in.....

Yawn!

Zascar

Good stuff so far, here's my two cents.

I'd be a relativly simple Dj, really I just like mixing tunes - but when mixing at home and just playing about I do like to try to experiment a bit at times also. I agree with 'keeping the flow' I always like to try to put some thought behind how a mix flows and progresses - but I do not like to plan it too much - spontaneity is nice too. As said above, its nice to play about with where you mix in and mix out - getting two tracks to break in the right place so it switches it up. Sometimes when messing at home, instead of letting a track play for 5 mins etc, I only let it play for 2 mins before bringing in the new track - so you are playing a lot of tracks in a short space of time, but you can have fun layering them and swapping bassline etc like CMT said.

I'm not that big on loops and effects, mainly cause I think if you are not really really effective with them - you should not be using them. A lot of DJ's these days are utilising HotCue's and you see headline DJ's mashing up using them, most of the time I think its a bit pants. However, that's not to say I do not like some loops/effects at times.

One very effective mixing technique I would advice for beginners, is to use loops to make your mixing more smooth and fluid. It's usually easy enough to mix a new track IN, but the harder part is mixing the old track OUT - you need to make it smooth and natural and not have any clashing etc (this is more relevent with house than say minimal etc). I find putting the track you are mixing out of on a 4 bar loop at the right time, can just mean that you know it is not going to do anything else for the rest of your mix, so you can mix out very smooth and seamless into the next song - and not worry about it kicking back in with a synth or vocal when you have the fader half down - which would just spoil it.

Most effects etc sound pretty pants but I have just started using Traktor Pro and the effects seem to be a lot better - so I do plan to experiment and give it a shot. The filter can be good, although I find the one on Traktor too harsh. Things like the beatmasher if used subtely can be fun, and lets face it, what man doesn't like a nice bit of flange

Executive Steve

Never let a tune overstay it's welcome.

If a tune is rolling for more than three minutes, you'd better be doing something VERY interesting to justify keeping it there.

Executive Steve

Teases are fun - line a tune up for a double drop, as discussed above, and take it out of the mix after 8 bars, then mix in another tune. Bonus marks for teasing in an old classic.

Executive Steve

Zascar wrote: »

One very effective mixing technique I would advice for beginners, is to use loops to make your mixing more smooth and fluid.

Where's the looping button on my turntable?

Zascar

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

Teases are fun - line a tune up for a double drop, as discussed above, and take it out of the mix after 8 bars, then mix in another tune. Bonus marks for teasing in an old classic.

I love when DJ's do that, play a teaser barely recognisable of an old classic but wait till later to actually play it.

Zascar

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

Where's the looping button on my turntable?

That's just one of the sacrifices you make!

Zascar

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

Never let a tune overstay it's welcome.

If a tune is rolling for more than three minutes, you'd better be doing something VERY interesting to justify keeping it there.

Do you mean 3 minutes of a tune playing in total - or the actual mix?

Loads of my tunes don't even come close to peaking after 3 mins

electrogrimey

Zascar wrote: »

Do you mean 3 minutes of a tune playing in total - or the actual mix?

Loads of my tunes don't even come close to peaking after 3 mins

Think this is a sign of the two different styles of djing coming about. The first is the old-school, techno/minimal style of smoothly mixing in big 5-10 minute tunes, the second being the new one coming about, of mixing in loads of tunes quite quickly, which IMHO has come about party due to technological advances (i.e. Traktor etc), and in Ireland, party due to the 2:30 laws, i.e. DJs don't have 5 hour sets like the techno clubs in Germany, so they have to pack more tunes into a shorter time. I personally think this new style won't stand the test of time, as hopefully that law will eventually be revoked, and we can go back to listening to the whole of a 5 minute track.*

*Warning - possibility of majorly talking out of my ass.

Zascar

electrogrimey wrote: »

*Warning - possibility of majorly talking out of my ass.

You should make that your Sig!

Ah but no I do agree with your point - as you say totally deopends on music styles etc

vinylbomb

electrogrimey wrote: »

the second being the new one coming about, of mixing in loads of tunes quite quickly

New? Jeff Mills has been doing this since the dawn of time!!!
And always solely on turntables, plays a minute or so of each track.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bLanIfR13A



Nice disclaimer

electrogrimey wrote: »

*Warning - possibility of majorly talking out of my ass.

brianc27

prefere nice and long mixing myself, always have even when i was using 1210's/cd decks.

electrogrimey

vinylbomb wrote: »

New? Jeff Mills has been doing this since the dawn of time!!!
And always solely on turntables, plays a minute or so of each track.

He's one DJ, but the majority of fidget/electro DJs now will play like that, by coming about now I mean that now most DJs (of that genre) are doing it.

Executive Steve

Zascar wrote: »

Do you mean 3 minutes of a tune playing in total - or the actual mix?

Loads of my tunes don't even come close to peaking after 3 mins

Three minutes from bringing it in to bringing it out, thereabouts anyway; two minutes max if you're playing techno IMO

Within reason anyway; sometimes a tune needs a bit more time to breathe, especially with a big epic spastic drum tune; linear steppy numbers need to be cycled through quite quickly for the sake of flow and energy. Also, bear in mind that DnB is structurally very different to house music in the way it's arranged and hence the way it's mixed.


*joke alert*

You mean not only don't you beatmatch but you play tunes for 5-6 minutes each? And you don't like overdoing it on effects and looping? Are you racking out massive lines of naughty in between tunes or something?

Executive Steve

electrogrimey wrote: »

Think this is a sign of the two different styles of djing coming about. The first is the old-school, techno/minimal style of smoothly mixing in big 5-10 minute tunes, the second being the new one coming about, of mixing in loads of tunes quite quickly, which IMHO has come about party due to technological advances (i.e. Traktor etc), and in Ireland, party due to the 2:30 laws, i.e. DJs don't have 5 hour sets like the techno clubs in Germany, so they have to pack more tunes into a shorter time. I personally think this new style won't stand the test of time, as hopefully that law will eventually be revoked, and we can go back to listening to the whole of a 5 minute track.*

*Warning - possibility of majorly talking out of my ass.

Possibility, indeed.

You certainly don't need Traktor to play 30 tunes in an hour...

You're trying to create energy, and with tunes that are about impact you want to be making an impact from start to finish.

vinylbomb

electrogrimey wrote: »

He's one DJ, but the majority of fidget/electro DJs now will play like that, by coming about now I mean that now most DJs (of that genre) are doing it.

I do know what you're saying with the fidget/minimal thing (they are all trying to sound like Hawtin/Luciano etc IMO), but around 2000 there was a load of guys playing like this - Adam Beyer, Cari Lekebusch, Joel Mull, Christian Smith, Surgeon, Umek - practically all of the guys associated with Drumcode and to a lesser extent Tresor were doing it.

It was straight up facking banging tribal techno for the most part mind you, nowt minimal about it, but it was still loops.

EuskalHerria

Took me a while to locate this but better than starting another thread.

I've been listening to a lot of mixes lately and still amazed at the different techniques i'm not aware of in the mixes that makes the transition between tracks so much smoother than i'm able to on my better days.

I know i'm limited a bit with having cdj200's and no cue points. I can transition easy enough using loops and turning the bass down on the track coming in.
Still though even though i can hear imrpovement over the last while i was wondering is there any techniques that could help.

One technique i've heard in a number of tracks but cant seem to do using the EQs is having the vocals of one track playing over the beat of another. It may be simple but i cant seem to get it where it sounds right and there isn't a clash of tracks.

billybigunz

The first is the old-school, techno/minimal style of smoothly mixing in big 5-10 minute tunes,

Making a clown of yourself in this thread.

electrogrimey

billybigunz wrote: »

Making a clown of yourself in this thread.

:rolleyes:

One thing I learned from seeing Mixmaster Mike is that bandwagons are a terrible idea...He was playing a lot of Dutch house and dubstep for some reason, and only a small bit of hip-hop (i.e. what he is known for playing). He'd have a much better knowledge of hip-hop and breaks than a lot of DJs, whereas he seemed to only know as much about house and dubstep as your average wannabe DJ, so even though he was obviously great at what he does, it was ruined by him playing a load of cheesy bandwagon music.

I think it's important, much more important than mixing, is to stick to playing what you love, and not what you think the crowd will like. Forgot about this thread though, some good tips.

ED E

Do any of you do sudden drop ins? As in cue a track and then just hit play(cross at 50) at a suitable point?

Executive Steve

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

Do any of you do sudden drop ins? As in cue a track and then just hit play(cross at 50) at a suitable point?

No... What I do do in situations like that where i want a really sudden change is just bring a tune in with the mids and lows cut out completely, slowly bring in the mids and then at the end of a phrase really drastically switch the basslines...

I don't really play stuff with four-to-the-floor kickdrums in it though...

Executive Steve

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Took me a while to locate this but better than starting another thread.

I've been listening to a lot of mixes lately and still amazed at the different techniques i'm not aware of in the mixes that makes the transition between tracks so much smoother than i'm able to on my better days.

I know i'm limited a bit with having cdj200's and no cue points. I can transition easy enough using loops and turning the bass down on the track coming in.
Still though even though i can hear imrpovement over the last while i was wondering is there any techniques that could help.

One technique i've heard in a number of tracks but cant seem to do using the EQs is having the vocals of one track playing over the beat of another. It may be simple but i cant seem to get it where it sounds right and there isn't a clash of tracks.

Just practice and make sure you're using the right records... You're not limited by not having cuepoints at all by the way.

Why do you use the loops to transition out of a tune?

copeyhagen

dont like to share my secrets, ok what the hell,

step 1: load deck a
step 2: load deck b
step 3: play deck a
step 4: highlight deck b
step 5: click sync
step 6: sit back and wait for the kudos

ianuss

As a noob, I can't really offer any tricks or techniques just yet.

However, I would suggest recording all of your mixes when you're starting off though. It's a really great way to find out where you're going wrong, what doesn't sound quite right or what works really well.