Ableton live intro

Hamiltonion

I want to learn to dj but I'm on a fairly tight budget, ableton live intro and some sort of midi controller/mixer look to be the best way forward. What limitations would there be to this? Also could you recommend a good controller/mixer for use with ableton?
I'm mainly into electro such as digitalism, fake blood, bloody beetroots, friendly fires, deadmau5 etc

Zascar

Do you specifically want to use Ableton? Have you considered Traktor pro also?

Hamiltonion

I've researched both but I like the ableton warp feature, how does traktor compare?
Also Traktor is relatively more expensive.

Basically I want something to allow me to mix tracks, drop in samples and dj as simply as possible live, I've no interest in production. also if possible to drop in new tracks on the fly.

Zascar

I'm not too familiar with Ableton, but I assume you mean warping, you not have to beatmatch. Traktor has "Beatgridding" which afaik is actually better than Ableton's, it's easier anyway I think.

Depending on what type of controller you want, many of them come with Traktor LE which will probably do most of what you want - but if you want to upgrade to pro there is a discount on it too.

Hamiltonion

Cheers, i may look into Traktor more then before committing, it seems to be more orientated towards live sets

VinylJunkie

Hamiltonion wrote: »

I like the ableton warp feature

Trust me most DVS systems have better systems of aligning beats, look into Torq, mixxx and traktor. I reckon the only reason ableton don't use a similar system is to cater for live musicians recording.

PureTallent

For a beginner id go for an maudio xponent used alongside torq. Really powerful stuff for people on a budget and really easy to pickup. The new torq 1.5 has an ableton re-wire feature so it integrates into ableton pretty easy too if you really wanna use ableton. I think the best place to get an xponent (it comes with torq free) would probably be http://www.thomann.de/ie/maudio_torq_xponent.htm

electrogrimey

Hamiltonion wrote: »

I want to learn to dj but I'm on a fairly tight budget, ableton live intro and some sort of midi controller/mixer look to be the best way forward. What limitations would there be to this? Also could you recommend a good controller/mixer for use with ableton?
I'm mainly into electro such as digitalism, fake blood, bloody beetroots, friendly fires, deadmau5 etc

Cheapest way of going about it would probably be getting a cheap MIDI keyboard, and maybe the NI Audio 2 DJ, because it comes with Traktor LE. That set-up would also have a huge amount of upgrade possibilities, because if you realised you wanted to get into DJ properly, you could upgrade to Traktor Pro, and get a better MIDI controller, while still keeping the keyboard as a secondary controller.

Zascar

Can someone please explain to me why anyone would want to use a keyboard for Dj'ing? I

Scubadevils

PureTallent wrote: »

For a beginner id go for an maudio xponent used alongside torq. Really powerful stuff for people on a budget and really easy to pickup. The new torq 1.5 has an ableton re-wire feature so it integrates into ableton pretty easy too if you really wanna use ableton. I think the best place to get an xponent (it comes with torq free) would probably be http://www.thomann.de/ie/maudio_torq_xponent.htm

I have considered that Xponent so many times now but have to justify the spend still.

Why would you say its more for a beginner though? Is it something that you would end up wanting to replace a few months down the road?

In the time I've had Technics which is about 15 years now, I've gone through about 4 mixers... is it the same in the digital world in terms of controllers? Is the Xponent the 'Kam Made-2-Fade' of the digital world?! I'd hate to spend 400 quid on something to find it would have been better to wait and spend a bit more on something better.

electrogrimey

Zascar wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why anyone would want to use a keyboard for Dj'ing?

I personally wouldn't, but it does more or less the same job as any other controller, and for €50, it'd be a great way of seeing whether you wanted to invest more.

electrogrimey

Felixdhc wrote: »

I have considered that Xponent so many times now but have to justify the spend still.

Why would you say its more for a beginner though? Is it something that you would end up wanting to replace a few months down the road?

In the time I've had Technics which is about 15 years now, I've gone through about 4 mixers... is it the same in the digital world in terms of controllers? Is the Xponent the 'Kam Made-2-Fade' of the digital world?! I'd hate to spend 400 quid on something to find it would have been better to wait and spend a bit more on something better.

From what I've heard Zascar say about it, it seems to be a great controller, but the problem is with Torq, and it doesn't work properly with Traktor. I'm sure he'll tell us more momentarily though. :pac:

Scubadevils

So is Traktor generally considered to be better than Torq?

Zascar

For similar money to the Xponent you can get a Vestax VCI-100 and an Audio 2 DJ.

I had the Xponent for years and it was great, but now have the vestax and its a lot nicer, and works perfectly with Traktor pro. Torq is pants in comparison. There are a good few other controllers to consider too depending on what you want.

Op see a good new other recent threads on controllers, plenty of good info in there

jtsuited

Felixdhc wrote: »

So is Traktor generally considered to be better than Torq?

yes by a bajillion miles.

electrogrimey

Felixdhc wrote: »

So is Traktor generally considered to be better than Torq?

Proof is in the pudding, where in this case the pudding is the amount of international DJs using Traktor and the amount using Torq.

Scubadevils

So Vestax and Traktor is the way to go... I've got lost in the numerous threads about controllers etc. Think I'll bite the bullet and go with the Vestax before December...

I've a party to play the first week of December which is my first time in a few years now to DJ, dusted off the decks over the weekend and my older records really didn't inspire me much... many CD's bought over the years since which are just screaming out at me to be mixed :pac:

electrogrimey

Felixdhc wrote: »

So Vestax and Traktor is the way to go... I've got lost in the numerous threads about controllers etc. Think I'll bite the bullet and go with the Vestax before December...

As far as the all-in-one controllers go, the vestaxes seem to be the best alright. Check out the new one out, think it's more scratch orientated, but it could mean that the 100 and 300 will get a little bit cheaper.

PureTallent

Felixdhc wrote: »

I have considered that Xponent so many times now but have to justify the spend still.

Why would you say its more for a beginner though? Is it something that you would end up wanting to replace a few months down the road?

In the time I've had Technics which is about 15 years now, I've gone through about 4 mixers... is it the same in the digital world in terms of controllers? Is the Xponent the 'Kam Made-2-Fade' of the digital world?! I'd hate to spend 400 quid on something to find it would have been better to wait and spend a bit more on something better.

Imo its much easier to pick up and get decent mixes out of fairly quickly. The hardware is made specifically for the software so all the midi mapping is already done and you can run it smoothly on a fairly basic laptop. I do agree that traktor is far better than torq, but with the 1.5 update torq is definitly gaining ground and for a beginner I would still recommend it. But yes, it is something that you will probably want to replace, maybe not a few months down the road though, you would probably get more value out of it than that. But really anything for a small budget is going to be replaced eventually. Although the idea of starting with individual components and building on them as you improve, rather than just choosing the 'all in one' solution (ie. the xponent) might be better for you.

Scubadevils

^ What do you mean by the individual components? - That being the software and the controller?

I downloaded the trial version of Traktor a couple of weeks ago and just trying it now... very, very nice and I only have a half hour to try it per session I can see how the external controller would be essential, it would really annoy me feckin about with the mouse or keyboard.

I must say though the pleasure of browsing 1000's of tracks on screen versus flicking through 1000's of vinyl is unreal.

PureTallent

Felixdhc wrote: »

^ What do you mean by the individual components? - That being the software and the controller?

Yes, controller, software and soundcard, although I think the vestax comes with a light version of traktor?

electrogrimey

Also, as regards the price of the Xponent, for the same price you could get 2 Kontrol X1s, which together are more or less the best traktor controller you can get, save the expensive Allen + Heaths (although the X1s are aimed at being used alongside a mixer). I would say the VCI is your best bet.

Scubadevils

So you'd be up and running really for less than a grand?

electrogrimey

Felixdhc wrote: »

So you'd be up and running really for less than a grand?

Definitely, unless you were looking into an Allen+Heath, which are about €1200. €100 for a soundcard (depending on controller), €129 for the Traktor Pro upgrade from LE, and then €150-400 for whatever controller you want. It'll get more expensive if you want to throw a mixer in there, but that's a personal choice really, and it depends on the controller you're using; you wouldn't need one for a VCI.

Getting a sound system would also be an option, but it'd still be possible to do it for under €1000.

Stab*City

I recently dropped all my previous software to concentrate more or less totally on ableton (both for DJ'ing & Bedroom Production). Was on the lookout for a decent controller as i had my bcd2000 remapped to work with traktor and was getting sick of the bcd.

I decided to go with the Akai Apc40 (which includes a free version of ableton lite7 which now has a free upgrade to 8) and i must say i am over the moon i did. The Apc has helped me alot by just messing about and trying different things because the integration is seemless and its so much fun to play with. And as a controller for ableton it dont get ay better.

As for ableton as a DJ'ing tool its defo up there either at the top or joint first seeing as though i have singled it out as my tool of choice i have had more time to play around and while only scratching the surface i can see that its got more than enough for where im at now. The warping engine is seemless and unlike other programs non destructive add to that the new warp modes which help for harmonic mixing keywise and youll be hard pressed to miss a beat. All in all i wouldnt write ableton off on somebody elses say so go and download the trial versions of all the programs mentioned and decide for yourself!

VinylJunkie

Zascar wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why anyone would want to use a keyboard for Dj'ing? I

You need to understand its a midi controller shaped like a keyboard.

PureTallent

Stab*City wrote: »

I recently dropped all my previous software to concentrate more or less totally on ableton (both for DJ'ing & Bedroom Production). Was on the lookout for a decent controller as i had my bcd2000 remapped to work with traktor and was getting sick of the bcd.

I decided to go with the Akai Apc40 (which includes a free version of ableton lite7 which now has a free upgrade to 8) and i must say i am over the moon i did. The Apc has helped me alot by just messing about and trying different things because the integration is seemless and its so much fun to play with. And as a controller for ableton it dont get ay better.

As for ableton as a DJ'ing tool its defo up there either at the top or joint first seeing as though i have singled it out as my tool of choice i have had more time to play around and while only scratching the surface i can see that its got more than enough for where im at now. The warping engine is seemless and unlike other programs non destructive add to that the new warp modes which help for harmonic mixing keywise and youll be hard pressed to miss a beat. All in all i wouldnt write ableton off on somebody elses say so go and download the trial versions of all the programs mentioned and decide for yourself!

Ive got to completely agree with all of this. The only small problem with ableton is it takes a little while to figure out. But it shines in the way that its completely customosable. The apc40 is a great piece of kit. It doesn't have a soundcard though, and once you start using ableton you will want to upgrade from the lite version.

Zascar

Felixdhc wrote: »

So Vestax and Traktor is the way to go... I've got lost in the numerous threads about controllers etc. Think I'll bite the bullet and go with the Vestax before December...

I'll give you a demo of mine some time so you can have a play with it and see if you like it. I think its a save choice but there are others worth considering do depending on your preference etc.

franklyshocked

Hamiltonion wrote: »

I want to learn to dj but I'm on a fairly tight budget, ableton live intro and some sort of midi controller/mixer look to be the best way forward. What limitations would there be to this? Also could you recommend a good controller/mixer for use with ableton?
I'm mainly into electro such as digitalism, fake blood, bloody beetroots, friendly fires, deadmau5 etc

OK, so to address your question directly, Ableton is audio production workstation that you can make your own music and perform it live as well as import other peoples tracks and do a more regular style of DJ set.
Skipping past the production side of things, as you only mention DJing:
With most of the other DJ packages from what I've seen you can run between 2 and a max of 4 tracks/decks at the same time for more complicated track and loop mixing. "Ableton Intro" is the baby of the Ableton family and limits you to running 8 tracks/decks at the same time meaning you can really step up the complexity of your live performance.
The full versions of Live can have pretty much an unlimited number of tracks playing, limited by your computer or audio interfaces performance.
If you're starting out DJing though take a look at some of the more cost effective packages like Virtual DJ to see what you can do before moving up the ladder.
"Ableton Intro" as the name states is just an intro package.

nonsense42

jtsuited wrote: »

yes by a bajillion miles.

And a few more miles after that!!

Get Traktor or Ableton.Nothing else.Beauty of having Ableton is you can get into production should you choose to eventually where as Traktor you're limited to just djiing.

Theres a good link on the forum to the new Traktor controller.looks pretty sweet.

Scubadevils

Zascar wrote: »

I'll give you a demo of mine some time so you can have a play with it and see if you like it. I think its a save choice but there are others worth considering do depending on your preference etc.

Yeah that would be great.

I have been messing about with the trial version of Traktor and really love it!

No messing about with beat matching, just hit sync :P

electrogrimey

Finally understand your username...Felix Da Housecat yeah? No idea how I didn't cop that before...

Scubadevils

Ha, yeah... and I feckin hate the name! When I joined 4 years ago to ask a weather related question (it was snowing and I had to drive somewhere!), every name I picked was taken and I spotted an old mix by Felix and went with that. Long story but felt I must explain myself :pac: I then found the dance section and continued to post....

electrogrimey

Felixdhc wrote: »

Ha, yeah... and I feckin hate the name! When I joined 4 years ago to ask a weather related question (it was snowing and I had to drive somewhere!), every name I picked was taken and I spotted an old mix by Felix and went with that. Long story but felt I must explain myself :pac: I then found the dance section and continued to post....

I'm pretty sure 90% of people here hate their names. Anytime I go into different music sections, people assume I know nothing about them thanks to this name.

Zascar

electrogrimey wrote: »

I'm pretty sure 90% of people here hate their names. Anytime I go into different music sections, people assume I know nothing about them thanks to this name.

Would you not just change it then? Ok I think its resets your post count or something, but you're only on 380, you'll get that back in no time

electrogrimey

Zascar wrote: »

Would you not just change it then? Ok I think its resets your post count or something, but you're only on 380, you'll get that back in no time

Ah I'm not really bothered by it, was just trying to cheer Felix up :pac:

Zascar

haha

Felix deffo come over and check it out some time. I was planning on getting a few people over some weekend afternoon for traktor/tunes/mixing/banter session. Busy this weekend but will do it soon

electrogrimey

By the way, I call Zascar to the tune ID thread, I've one that needs your minimal knowledge.

Nice pun eh? 'Cos it's minimal...but minimal knowledge means...ah forget it.

jay_lo

Zascar wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why anyone would want to use a keyboard for Dj'ing? I

this is my 1st post:)

i use ableton for dj and production and wow its class really really top software,i tried using virtual dj and found it **** u are only limited to 2 tracks a go, as for trackor im not to sure about that but ableton the great thing is if u have the full version i use live 8 u can use a100 if u want not that any body would play that many,as for keyboard u dont need one if u get a sound card with 2 outputs + extra outputs for headfones and mic i use numark dj iio u can hook it up to a mixer and use the mixers effects

and its so user friendly aswell

hope this helps:)

old gregg

hey welcome jay_lo,
yea Ableton can be pretty cool to work with.

Anyone looking for an interesting free Ableton resourse with packs for learning could do much worse than check out my old mate Tom Cosm in New Zealand (yea it's a touch psy but hey, psy works best in the southern hemisphere anyway *sighs* )

Quiggers

Ableton needs more homework , ie warping the tracks before you go out to play, than traktor, but its midi mapping is fantastic, traktor can be a pain to set up but is more immediate, although i have had some tracks not grid properly and you can end up having to beat match them manually, shock horror!

jay_lo

the good thing about that is when its warped u can save the settings on your track for the next time so u can just drag and drop:)