Saxo query

vectra

Right.
I have weighed up several cars for my son who will be 18 in the coming week(s)
MG zr = crazy insurance.
1.0 cars.... Not on the menu..
He has put his eye on a Citroen Saxo 1.4 VTR
Insurance came up at 1800 which seems ok (1400 for a 1.0 Litre car )
The Questions is this
Good car ?
or
Bad Car?
what to watch out for?

Thanks

Mr Benevolent

Wouldn't you be better getting him something he might not wrap around a tree, like a Fiesta?

Esel

Honest John says....

Edit: HJ also says 'See Peugeot 106 for what to watch out for on VTR and VTS.'

vectra

Confab wrote: »

Wouldn't you be better getting him something he might not wrap around a tree, like a Fiesta?

Well
I have seen loads of Fiestas wrapped around trees to be honest but thanks for your valued reply anyway

bladebrew

vectra wrote: »

Right.
I have weighed up several cars for my son who will be 18 in the coming week(s)
MG zr = crazy insurance.
1.0 cars.... Not on the menu..
He has put his eye on a Citroen Saxo 1.4 VTR
Insurance came up at 1800 which seems ok (1400 for a 1.0 Litre car )
The Questions is this
Good car ?
or
Bad Car?
what to watch out for?

Thanks

i drive a 1.1 saxo and have no problems with it,i wrecked the clutch because i was learning (using it instead of a handbrake) that was €668 to replace at a main dealer!,not much wrong with it apart from that,
there seems to be a load of 1.1`s around and not not many 1.4`s,
and any 1.4`s i have seen have aftermarket alloys and bodykit installed ,these cars may be abused,
there is a much better choice if your son went for a 1.1,maybe a 3 door,they are a nippy enough,they only weigh around 800kg,

martinr5232

Gearboxes can be a bit dodgy if they have oversize wheels on them.

Other than that I cant think of a lot else.

Just be careful with a VTR as a lot of little boy racers have these and drive the sh!te out of them for the same reason you are looking at buying one (cheap insurance)

vectra

Thanks lads.
This one is a genuine 1.4vtr so no aftermarket stuff.
15" wheels so nothing oversize there.
Looks like something that was cared for but you never know.
I will be getting a mechanic to check it out for me
( a citroen one );)

Thanks again guys

Redisle

I think the 1.4Vtr was only produced for the irish market.. both the VTR and the VTS are 1.6 engines over in England (8v vs 16v). It's a nice looking car but the saftey rating is only 2 star, dosen't come out well in the case of an accident. Also make sure your son takes it for a longish drive, Ive been driving a saxo for a while now (albeit a crappy 1.5D) and the pedal box is really cramped. You actually need to be wearing your slimmest pair of shoes so your not hitting 2 pedals at a time and you are basically rubbing off the inside of the wheel arch when accelerating.
I often get cramps in my legs after a longish drive.

When you view the car if the airbag light is flashing it's usually nothing to worry about, the orange wires for the pre-tensioners under the seats always cause problems but you just need to cut out the connectors and solder the wires directly together to solve this.

Also make sure to check all the seals, around the aeriel, and the tops of the windows. I don't know if it's just me but I often go out to the car after a wet day and the internal light is full of water that came in around the aeriel (or maybe around the sunroof). This tends to cause internal rainfall once I start moving
Recently there's also water getting lodged on the rubber seals along the top of the drivers window, and falling on me when I move.

Listen for suspension noise too, various suspension bushings have a tendency to go in these and we actually had to replace the rear axle to pass NCT last time around (I believe it was easier than replacing the bushings).
Not sure if it's a universal thing but last time we were going for NCT our mechanic told us that the tracking adjusters on the front axle were jammed, and that if we fail the NCT next time due to tracking it may not be fixable so it might be worth getting the mechanic to check this.

One other thing is that this car is really easy to break into. (the rubber on the outside of the window is easily removed and door pins are easily manipulated) I spent some time on this forum becasue I was considering getting a VTR at some stage and it seems the easiest way to solve this is to completely remove door pins. You can find instructions on that forum anyway.

Another option could be a Fiesta zetec-s if your son is after something quick.
I was really really tempted to get one of these for a while but Im holding off for the moment since I don't really need a car right now.
Not very common in this country but there's a few nice examples on donedeal. Eg this one (I very nearly rang this guy myself but just can't justify the cost ) It's meant to be a lovely car to drive and plenty of power. (~100Bhp)
Also for me it only costs around 50 euro more to insure than the 1.25.. Id imagine that's got something to do with it being so uncommon. Im 20 so it shouldn't be too much different in your case.

Anyway, hope this helps.

colm_mcm

Saxo 2 star NCAP test

The Saxo's basics date back to 1991 - I'd be aiming for something higher than a 2 star NCAP if I were you. We're forever being told how young males crash more than anyone else - why not give him more of a chance. Something like a Punto 1.2 Sporting will have dual airbags, probably ABS and a 4 star NCAP rating.

Punto NCAP test
00 Sporting for €1200


For your budget you'd easily get a Xsara 1.4 VTR 3dr (3 star NCAP) My 00 has dual front and side airbags and ABS, and that's only a VSX.
Here's a facelift 01 model VTR for €1500

baldoyleautos

Not a bad little car.
Headgaskets leak.have a look at left side of engine .If you see an oil leak there its usualy the headgasket.not a major job.
Rear brake shoes and cylinders always going.

• Other than that they shouldnt bother u to much.

ianobrien

Just a word to the wise. If the car is lowered and/or on non-OEM size alloys, you'll be looking at a big bill to rebuild the rear axle.

I've spent three nights two weeks ago rebuilding a rear axle on one that been lowered, and the damage to the swing axle bushings was from the lowering.

vectra

ianobrien wrote: »

Just a word to the wise. If the car is lowered and/or on non-OEM size alloys, you'll be looking at a big bill to rebuild the rear axle.

I've spent three nights two weeks ago rebuilding a rear axle on one that been lowered, and the damage to the swing axle bushings was from the lowering.

Apparently it has been lowered and is running 15" rims,
Not sure how much it has been lowered. Is there a safe limit?

ianobrien

vectra wrote: »

Apparently it has been lowered and is running 15" rims,
Not sure how much it has been lowered. Is there a safe limit?

Jack the car up at the rear. Catch the wheels at then "jiggle" them. If they move knock 800 euro off the price. It's that simple.

Basically don't lower them or fit wider wheels.

2 Espressi

V, would he consider something like my old yoke? 1.5, rallying homoglation credentials, doesn't attract the type of attention a Civic does...

vectra

2 Espressi wrote: »

V, would he consider something like my old yoke? .

Fraid not boss
Thanks all the same

Henry Ford III

1.1l engine might be the best choice for an 18 y.o. Insurance, tax, and running costs are all less than a 1.4 I'd imagine.

It'd be slower too, which may be another consideration.

vectra

Henry Ford III wrote: »

1.1l engine might be the best choice for an 18 y.o. Insurance, tax, and running costs are all less than a 1.4 I'd imagine.

It'd be slower too, which may be another consideration.

All true under normal circumstances but this lad has his head screwed on in all the right places.
He wants something half decent as he wont want to be changing it for at least 2 years. Hence the 1.4.. ( 1.0 can get very boring )
Now,
Against that he is not biased towards a 1.4
He would gladly drive a nice SEAT Ibiza 1.0
He also likes the Citroen Xsara Coupe 1.4. <( I had one of these and know how slow they are :rolleyes:)

Lots of choices and decisions to be made.

Frankie Lee

vectra wrote: »

All true under normal circumstances but this lad has his head screwed on in all the right places.
He wants something half decent as he wont want to be changing it for at least 2 years. Hence the 1.4.. ( 1.0 can get very boring )
Now,
Against that he is not biased towards a 1.4
He would gladly drive a nice SEAT Ibiza 1.0
He also likes the Citroen Xsara Coupe 1.4. <( I had one of these and know how slow they are :rolleyes:)

Lots of choices and decisions to be made.

Would he not consider getting a 1.3 Corolla hatchback (97-00) or something similarly decent.

vectra

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Would he not consider getting a 1.3 Corolla hatchback (97-00) or something similarly decent.

To be honest with you.
While I know Corolla's are a good car but they make way too much money for the age/condition of them

Scratching my head now as to what to buy

Could be any of the following

Leon
Colt
Focus
306
Xsara
** All 1.4's**

Frankie Lee

vectra wrote: »

To be honest with you.
While I know Corolla's are a good car but they make way too much money for the age/condition of them

Scratching my head now as to what to buy

Could be any of the following

Leon
Colt
Focus
306
Xsara
** All 1.4's**

The Focus would be the best of these followed by the Colt (1.3?) and then the Leon in terms of reliability. That's just my opinion.

Sleepy

Civic 5 door / saloon? Doesn't attract the same attention as the hatchback, lovely to drive and as mechanically bullet-proof as you'll find. Only thing I had to change in 4 years of ownership of a 97 (until it was written off for me by a jeep driver this summer) outside of standard servicing was two CV joints.

Frankie Lee

Sleepy wrote: »

Civic 5 door / saloon? Doesn't attract the same attention as the hatchback, lovely to drive and as mechanically bullet-proof as you'll find. Only thing I had to change in 4 years of ownership of a 97 (until it was written off for me by a jeep driver this summer) outside of standard servicing was two CV joints.

I agree completely

vectra

Sleepy wrote: »

Civic 5 door / saloon? Doesn't attract the same attention as the hatchback.

Is that the civic Coupe??

This one??

Frankie Lee

No this



or this

vectra

Frankie Lee wrote: »

No this

Yuck.!!

Wouldnt like those myself

What about a Astra Bertone Coupe 1.6 ??

Bonito

vectra wrote: »

Fraid not boss
Thanks all the same

Im in the same position as your son,i have my full license now aswel and just turned 18. Im finished wit my 1.1 206 and im insured with quinn and for my insurance next year on a 1.4 focus,fiesta,206,saxo or golf is the same as the 1.1 206 anyway,so i've spent the last couple weeks and shopped around and looked at the MG-ZR myself,insurance on these is so expensice cause they're not in production anymore,parts are impossible and expensive to get hold of,engines are easily tuned apparently too. best bet is a sensible car,i know a couple lads who have had problems with rear axles,wishbones,and exhasuts goin very quickly on their vtr's,one even rolled his while takin a speed bump at the speed limit. To finish up ill just point out that the best quotes i've recieved for the car ill be driving next year was either a 1.6 passat,1.4 focus or a 1.8 mondeo,to give u a better e.g. i was even quoted cheaper on a 1.9 BMW compared to a civic or an MG-ZR,get somethin reliable but MAKE SURE it's reliable before you hand over any funds! hope this was of help to you

vectra

Bonito wrote: »

Im in the same position as your son,i have my full license now aswel and just turned 18. Im finished wit my 1.1 206 and im insured with quinn and for my insurance next year on a 1.4 focus,fiesta,206,saxo or golf is the same as the 1.1 206 anyway,so i've spent the last couple weeks and shopped around and looked at the MG-ZR myself,insurance on these is so expensice cause they're not in production anymore,parts are impossible and expensive to get hold of,engines are easily tuned apparently too. best bet is a sensible car,i know a couple lads who have had problems with rear axles,wishbones,and exhasuts goin very quickly on their vtr's,one even rolled his while takin a speed bump at the speed limit. To finish up ill just point out that the best quotes i've recieved for the car ill be driving next year was either a 1.6 passat,1.4 focus or a 1.8 mondeo,to give u a better e.g. i was even quoted cheaper on a 1.9 BMW compared to a civic or an MG-ZR,get somethin reliable but MAKE SURE it's reliable before you hand over any funds! hope this was of help to you

Thanks for your input.
All info gladly accepted.
Well as it happens the MGzr has been knocked in the head due to reliability issues and parts situation.

Actually was looking at a few BM's today.. Seem to be a few bargains going

Bonito

vectra wrote: »

Thanks for your input.
All info gladly accepted.
Well as it happens the MGzr has been knocked in the head due to reliability issues and parts situation.

Actually was looking at a few BM's today.. Seem to be a few bargains going

havent heard any bad stories about the old 316 or the 318 with a 1.6 engine the only car quinn wont insure me cheap on are imports,even just glanzas are big no no's with them for some reason,not that id ever buy one but was curious to see what i could get insured on bottom line is it pays to shop round and even if he's to wait a couple more weeks for a nice deal it'd be worth it

cson

Christ a Beemer for a first car :eek:

SV

cson wrote: »

Christ a Beemer for a first car :eek:

Beemers aren't exactly anything special...

vectra

SV wrote: »

Beemers aren't exactly anything special...

So I have been told this morning