What car for 2 young kids

Chunkylover

So mrs chunky has gone and got lumpy (preggers), when she pops, our other 1 will be 19 months old, so we are on the look out for an mpv that will hold the 2 kids in the back and all the crap that goes with them, preferably under 1.6, we have about 5k to spend
Ive been warned off the scenic but at the moment there are a few xsara picassos and hyundai matrix (friend has 1) that have caught my eye.

Anyone in the same possition that can advise or give more options

Cheers

EPM

Zafira might be worth a look or else an early corolla verso

bazz26

Ford Focus C-Max:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200944195697021

mark renton

Theyre a bit young to drive a Zafira or a Focus :rolleyes:

BostonB

john47832 wrote: »

Theyre a bit young to drive a Zafira or a Focus :rolleyes:

Ha ha thats what I thought when I read the title.

Personally I really liked the C-Max, another I'd consider is the Touran.

Martron

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/1985-1987_Mazda_323_(BF1061)_5-door_hatchback_01.jpg

my parents crammed 4 of us into the back of this yolk. we are all alive and happy

i would say you pick one up for next to nothing.

( mind the black vinyl seats in the summer though!)

mickdw

CAn anyone explain the need nowadays for an mpw as soon as they have a kid or two. Whats wrong with a reasonable saloon?
I will never buy an mpw! I dont have any kids but 2 kids could surely be brought safety in a large saloon like a 5 series or something. I dont understand the need to pack the whole house into the back of the car if only going somewhere for a day. People have gone mad.

.Longshanks.

mickdw wrote: »

CAn anyone explain the need nowadays for an mpw as soon as they have a kid or two. Whats wrong with a reasonable saloon?
I will never buy an mpw! I dont have any kids but 2 kids could surely be brought safety in a large saloon like a 5 series or something. I dont understand the need to pack the whole house into the back of the car if only going somewhere for a day. People have gone mad.

Whats a mpw?
(but i agree)

EastClare

I have just got a Touran, would reccomend apart from my thread above!

The problem with 2 kids in a saloon is that you can't take another passenger. No saloon car has 3 full seats, you have 2 seats plus the bump in the middle! So when you have 2 car seats you can't carry anyone else, even another child.

I have 2 smallies and got the touran so I can carry other passengers, (grandparents, kids pals coming on playdates, friends children, etc etc)and for the bootspace. I had a passat, and the boot was usually full with a double buggy, assorted wellies, hurleys, shopping bags and usual accumulation of stuff kids seem to need on car trips.

Dub13

I just got our second Zafira a couple of days ago,they are great and I think we will be sticking with them for a while.We have 4 kids and I tired out all the MPV on the market and taught the Zafira suited us best.All the seats in the back fold down so it can become like a small van if you have to move stuff around.

mickdw

Longshanks100 wrote: »

Whats a mpw?
(but i agree)

Its an mpv thats made in germany "Multi Purpose Wagen".
And you thought it was a typo:D

CharlieCroker

Until you have to ferry kids, you won't get it.
Individual seats,
high seats so kids can look out and not get car sick,
Wide opening doors to allow you put in toddlers without breaking your back!!!

mickdw

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Until you have to ferry kids, you won't get it.
Individual seats,
high seats so kids can look out and not get car sick,
Wide opening doors to allow you put in toddlers without breaking your back!!!

I thought that would be the response.....
But if I wanted to drive a van, I would become a delivery man:D

CuppaCocoa

Fiat Idea! Bought an 06 1.3 diesel one a week ago and very happy with it. Bags of room, high seats, split back seats that fold down and very comfortable to drive. They were only made from 04-07 so not too many around. There are still a few 1.4 petrol versions on carzone.Very pleased so far

EastClare

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Wide opening doors to allow you put in toddlers without breaking your back!!!

Exactly! I always used to bonk the small lads head on the sill when I was putting him in his seat. Easier to lift up and on than down and in IYSWIM.

Back to OP, I did quite a bit of research before I got our Touran, also had a limited budget (as in, this is what we have and no bugger will give us a loan!) If you only have 2 kids you dont need the full-size 7 seaters (Seat Alhambra, VW Sharan, Ford Galaxy, Hyundai Trajet). So the options are the small ones that give you 3 full back seats (Opel Meriva, Citroen Xsara Picasso) or the 5+2 seaters that give you 2 extra small seats in the boot (VW Touran, Opel Zafira, Puegeot 307 SW, Renault Espace).

I chose the Touran as I like the feel and reliability of the VW, have driven them for the last 10 years! My Dad has the Peugeot 307 SW. I dont love the styling, but its a nice, well thought out car.

If the extra seat doesn't bother you, consider the Ford CMax. You dont get the 3 full seats, but its a roomy car with a high driving position and good value I thought. HTH

Martron

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Wide opening doors to allow you put in toddlers without breaking your back!!!

yeah so wide in fact they can easily span the gap between cars and deposit a sizeable dent in the next car.

I always avoid a zafira or any other mpv with the sticker in back " princess on board" and kid seats.

CharlieCroker

Martron wrote: »

yeah so wide in fact they can easily span the gap between cars and deposit a sizeable dent in the next car.

I always avoid a zafira or any other mpv with the sticker in back " princess on board" and kid seats.

Thats more to do with the owners than the cars.
They could easily manage that with a micra if they wanted to

Martron

ah i know. and its totally down to the owners.....

unless the cars are alive....... in that case mpvs are evil

colm_mcm

What's your budget?

mickdw

Do people actually put kids in the rear most seats of these people carriers? The Zafira comes to mind. I wouldnt put a dog in those seats. They are within inches of the rear window and even a minor rear end accident would most likely prove fatal whereas in a normal car or if sitting in the proper rear seats, no injury at all would result.

ella87

Haven't any car suggestions but you should go onto some northern irish sites more value for your money and low milage especially around now
my dad got a 04 Opel for 2000e with eff all milage in the NI section of the autotrader a month ago and sold it in for 4000e worth a look.

BostonB

mickdw wrote: »

I thought that would be the response.....
But if I wanted to drive a van, I would become a delivery man:D

That makes no sense. If you have kids to transport you'd put them in a van?

BostonB

mickdw wrote: »

Do people actually put kids in the rear most seats of these people carriers? The Zafira comes to mind. I wouldnt put a dog in those seats. They are within inches of the rear window and even a minor rear end accident would most likely prove fatal whereas in a normal car or if sitting in the proper rear seats, no injury at all would result.

Lots of cars, smaller hatch backs are the the same. The point of these seats is occasional use, not to use them all the time. When they are folded down, you have a massive boot, and its not constrained by a boot lid, or hatchback in a normal car. Its a vastly more practical space. If you want to use the seats all the time, you'd wouldn't buy a mini MPV but a full sized MPV or 7 mini bus like the caravelle. Back row of seats in most mini bues, even buses is very close to the back. Whats your solution? Go everwhere in two cars?

run_Forrest_run

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Until you have to ferry kids, you won't get it.
Individual seats,
high seats so kids can look out and not get car sick,
Wide opening doors to allow you put in toddlers without breaking your back!!!

hmm, not sure if I agree with this.
The OP is looking for an MPV for 2 kids and I think that's a bit much. I have 2 kids, one is 3 and the other is 3 months and my Octavia is fine, actually the boot is probably way bigger than the storage capacity of some MPVs out there (OK, not the larger ones like the S-Max, Espace etc).

High seats so the kids don't get car sick - I've never heard of this one before, again, my eldest has no problem looking out the window.

Wide opening doors to allow you put in toddlers without breaking your back!!! - you may have a point here, depending on the model. But also bear in mind, a lot of these MPVs are harder for younger kids to climb up into. My little one has no problem getting into my car but if it was an MPV I'd still be lifting her in...and that would break your back.

C'mon, admit it, anyone who wants an MPV for just one of two kids really just wants to fit in at the car park of the local primary school, jesus like, it's crazy the amount of people turning up in one of these just to drop off little Illy and Trystan, buy hey, perhaps the space allows them easy loading and unloading of their cellos.

mickdw

BostonB wrote: »

That makes no sense. If you have kids to transport you'd put them in a van?

No. I was joking alittle. I meant that MPVs drive like vans and do not suit people who like a sporty drive. If I had 2 kids, I would most likely drive a 5 series bmw. At least that wont fall over going around bends... Joking again.

CharlieCroker

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

hmm, not sure if I agree with this.
The OP is looking for an MPV for 2 kids and I think that's a bit much. I have 2 kids, one is 3 and the other is 3 months and my Octavia is fine,

Funny you say that, the octavia popped into my head as a suggestion too, dunno why.

I agree with it being stupid people buying Big mpv's when they only have 2 kids.

The largest i would suggest is something C-Max sized. It's the same lenght as a standard Focus.

All I can say to the OP is try out a few and buy his favourite.

mickdw

BostonB wrote: »

Lots of cars, smaller hatch backs are the the same. The point of these seats is occasional use, not to use them all the time. When they are folded down, you have a massive boot, and its not constrained by a boot lid, or hatchback in a normal car. Its a vastly more practical space. If you want to use the seats all the time, you'd wouldn't buy a mini MPV but a full sized MPV or 7 mini bus like the caravelle. Back row of seats in most mini bues, even buses is very close to the back. Whats your solution? Go everwhere in two cars?

I dont know of any car (possibly little city cars) where the back seats come as close to the back window/door as these small mpv like zafira etc.
You cannot compare this to buses or minibuses. In Buses, you are much higher and inside a much sturdier structure than a zafira. They are not any more safe using them occasional than they are all the time. Do you know when an accident will take place. They really should be banned imo. It will only take a small accident, the type where a new bumber & tailgate is all that is needed to repair to cause horrific injuries to people in those seats.
2 cars, not a bad idea:D but if you must get a people carrier, get one where some crumple zone remains when all seats are filled or else get one so big that you dont use those rear seats.

BostonB

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

...C'mon, admit it, anyone who wants an MPV for just one of two kids really just wants to fit in at the car park of the local primary school, jesus like, it's crazy the amount of people turning up in one of these just to drop off little Illy and Trystan, buy hey, perhaps the space allows them easy loading and unloading of their cellos.

Thats like saying anyone who has a Octavia is a wannabe taxi driver? Octavia is grand and has massive space for a saloon, but most other saloons have less boot space.

Octavia is 560 litres (5 seats) 1620 (2 seats in the estate)
Touran is 120 (7 seats) ]695 (5 seats) or 1,989 (2 seats)

The space in a MPV is usually squarer and more useful. We have a side by side buggy that only fits standing up, it would be a nightmare in a Octavia boot. You'll never carry 7 in a Octavia, and even with 5 the Touran is wider in the back and squarer whereas the Octavias roof curves in. So with a mix of say 2 kids and an adult, or 2 adults and one kid, its far more comfortable in the touran in terms of should and headroom. If you never carry any more than 2 adults and 2 kids a saloon is fine. However is you find you are picking up other kids aswell, or carrying grandparents, etc, or perhaps carrying a load of stuff in the back at the weekend a MPV has more options more useful.

Years ago people got away with much smaller cars. But then they didn't have bulky car seats, and simply didn't use the car as much. If you don't need the flexibily and extra space of a MPV, a saloon is fine. Especially something like an Octavia. However if you need/want a MPV nothing else really comes close to the flexibily and options its gives you.

BostonB

mickdw wrote: »

No. I was joking alittle. I meant that MPVs drive like vans and do not suit people who like a sporty drive. If I had 2 kids, I would most likely drive a 5 series bmw. At least that wont fall over going around bends... Joking again.

Evo magazine rated the S-Max as better than many of the sporty saloons they've driven. The C-Max is based on the Focus, and Touran the Golf. Hardly poor handling cars. Do you think when all loaded up, with kids, you are going to be doing rally driving or something? A vomit comet thats what you'll create. You don't buy a MPV as a sports car. You buy a second car for that. Likewise if you are a plumber, you don't buy a M3 for work, and haul all your gear around it it.

BostonB

mickdw wrote: »

I dont know of any car (possibly little city cars) where the back seats come as close to the back window/door as these small mpv like zafira etc.
You cannot compare this to buses or minibuses. In Buses, you are much higher and inside a much sturdier structure than a zafira. They are not any more safe using them occasional than they are all the time. Do you know when an accident will take place. They really should be banned imo. It will only take a small accident, the type where a new bumber & tailgate is all that is needed to repair to cause horrific injuries to people in those seats.
2 cars, not a bad idea:D but if you must get a people carrier, get one where some crumple zone remains when all seats are filled or else get one so big that you dont use those rear seats.

So your solution is to ban all small cars, city cars, sports, anything that doesn't have crumple zone the size of an oil tanker, and frame chassis of a truck.

Funny then that cars exactly like that, american cars and 4x4's are generally less safe than european cars/saloons/MPV's which are designed properly. All you do is great a huge lump of metal that in a accident will cut anything its kits, short of a tank in half, and still won't be any safer if something runs into you. If you can crash a formula 1 car at 150mph and be ok, I think theres more to it that, going back to 1950's ideas of safety.

BostonB

CharlieCroker wrote: »

Funny you say that, the octavia popped into my head as a suggestion too, dunno why.

I agree with it being stupid people buying Big mpv's when they only have 2 kids.

The largest i would suggest is something C-Max sized. It's the same lenght as a standard Focus.

All I can say to the OP is try out a few and buy his favourite.

Not all MPV's are the same size. Like you say a C-Max is Focus sized and a Touran is Golf sized. I noticed with a touran that many saloons are longer and even wider in the car park spaces. But actually have less interior space. Obvously there are bigger MPV's like the Galaxy and Espace. But then you get big and small saloons aswell. They aren't all the same size either.

I don't get this blinkered obsession with a limitation of 2 kids either. When I was single I didn't drive everywhere on my own. But should I have bought a single seater car?

BostonB

If you had to you'd get a family of 5 in a micra, and a roof box.

Chunkylover

christ, I hardly ever get this many replies with other posts I start

Some are asking why an MPV, we looked at the octavia and it would be great for the kids but once they are in and the 2 prams/buggies/double buggie is in the boot there is no room in the boot for anything else and we (well those of us with kids) all know how much crap you need to take, add in the weekly shopping, cant go in the boot cause the prams are there and cant go on the seat cause the kids will be there

So thats why we chose to go for an mpv or something of that nature that will hold the family (and inlaws if needed, before I get them knocked off)

BostonB

Some people just never give others lifts, or need two buggies, or have kids at all, or shift bigger loads for DIY etc. Horses for courses.

Rev. BlueJeans

Each to their own and all that-I mean some people drive Yaris Versos...

But I can't understand this mad rush people have to buy MPVs as soon as herself misses her monthlies (not directed at you OP-you above all know what you feel you need), for fear that they won't have room for everything.

I mean, they didn't even exist as a market prior to the Espace.

Give me a nice handling saloon or estate with good boot space, a good NCAP rating, and safer handling than one of those grotesque answers to a question no one asked in the first place.

/end non directional rant.

PS, and I hate Renaults with a vengeance, but the megane scenic seems to be rugged enough, once you carry the coil packs for the petrols, and avoid letting little Johnny play with the windows, they don't seem to like being used more than once a year.

Rev. BlueJeans

Oh, and before someone says it-I have two kids and many non driving relatives, and we waft along fine in a C5.

BostonB

Lets all generalise so..


Citroen C5...

16th from bottom out of 137 models in 2003 Top Gear survey. 2004 Which? quote: "Hard to know what's worse about this car - the horrible drive or annoying tendency for various bits to stop working." Facelift model only scored 1 NCAP star for pedestrian impact safery and 3 stars for child protection

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=480

S-Max

Ford seems to have done the impossible.

Come up with a seven-seater sportscar.

The S-Max looks sporty. It goes, drives and handles as well as many so called sportscars. Yet instead of being a 2-seater or a 2+2 it’s actually a 5+2, with a lot more room for the two in the back than the average 2+2.
...
The main thing is Ford had come up with a new niche car. A 7 seater sportsvan. And it’s an excellent vehicle. Looks good, drives well, goes well, handles brilliantly and can take seven people or two and a sideboard. Watch out Audi and BMW.

Ummmm....

I don't believe either is the full story, I don't think a MPV is that good or the Citroen that bad.

colm_mcm

I would've thought a C Max would be more appropriate than a S Max (which is basicaly a Galaxy GTI)

Rev. BlueJeans

Ours hasn't given a day of trouble, good enough for me, and pulls like a train.

NCAP isn't an issue as it's the very last of the pre-facelift ones.

unkel

What the Rev. BlueJeans said. The typical kneejerk reaction in this country, to buy a 7 seat MPV / SUV when the second baba is on the way, is plain silly. 3 kids are fine (and much safer) in the back of a large saloon / estate car than in a SUV or on the 3rd row of seats in an MPV. But yes, if you need to bring more than 2 adults plus 3 children, you'll need something bigger than a large saloon / estate.

BostonB

colm_mcm wrote: »

I would've thought a C Max would be more appropriate than a S Max (which is basicaly a Galaxy GTI)

While they look the same, its a different body shell entirely. Its not just a sporty version, its a smaller than the Galaxy but larger than the C-Max. Larger than Touran for that matter.

BostonB

Rev. BlueJeans wrote: »

Ours hasn't given a day of trouble, good enough for me, and pulls like a train.

NCAP isn't an issue as it's the very last of the pre-facelift ones.

My point is that some comments are based more opinion than fact.

colm_mcm

BostonB wrote: »

While they look the same, its a different body shell entirely. Its not just a sporty version, its a smaller than the Galaxy but larger than the C-Max. Larger than Touran for that matter.

The Galaxy is all of 2 inches longer than the S Max. My point is it's still a large MPV and overkill for someone with so few kids.

BostonB

unkel wrote: »

What the Rev. BlueJeans said. The typical kneejerk reaction in this country, to buy a 7 seat MPV / SUV when the second baba is on the way, is plain silly. 3 kids are fine (and much safer) in the back of a large saloon / estate car than in a SUV or on the 3rd row of seats in an MPV. But yes, if you need to bring more than 2 adults plus 3 children, you'll need something bigger than a large saloon / estate.

I'm sure theres just as many if not more, who out grow their existing saloon, than buy it as a knee jerk reaction. The implication is that people in MPV's don't research properly before they buy. Thats a big sweeping generalisation. If all you wanted was the biggest boot you could get, then a MPV is easily bigger and more useful. Thats a valid reason all on its own.

If you go with the theory that bigger is better. Then because the boot in a MPV is larger than a saloon/estate, and the kids are usually on the 2nd row then logically they are safer in the MPV.

Personally I wouldn't use the rearmost seats in a Mini MPV only for very rare occasions. If I needed them in any regular basis I'd buy something bigger. I've often wondered why they don't make the last row rear facing like in Volvo or Merc 7 seater Estates. That would be better you'd think.

AFAIK EURONCAP doesn't test rear impacts. if it did I expect rear seats in many MPV's and a lot of small hatchbacks would score dysmally. That said I read that...

one-fourth of all motor vehicle collisions are of the rear-end type yet account for only 1-4% of the fatalities.....In most rear-end crashes (90%) the occupants of both cars are not injured. Injuries were found more often in the striking car than in the struck vehicle

Which might explain why theres not much focus on it as an issue. I still wouldn't use the 3 row on a regular basis.

ninty9er

Chunkylover wrote: »

christ, I hardly ever get this many replies with other posts I start

Some are asking why an MPV, we looked at the octavia and it would be great for the kids but once they are in and the 2 prams/buggies/double buggie is in the boot there is no room in the boot for anything else

If you think the boot in the Octavia is too small, then there's no MPV that'll satisfy you.

An Avensis will take a buggy wheels to back seat, handle to bootlid and take 3 adults in the rear seat. It has a suitable space to put an adult, though he/she will have to circumnavigate the baby seats, though it won'd be long until no.1 is in a less intrusive seat.

You'll struggle to find an MPV in the C-Max, Xsara range that can do that. For my aunt when she moved from 3 kids to 4, the move from Focus saloon to Galaxy left less space for the kiddy paraphernalia, but was necessary for the extra seat. Her husband is a Ford dealer and didn't see the need for the family wagon, he still doesn't drive one and considering the eldest is now in secondary school and no.2 is on his way there next year, it won't be long until he gets the hated Galaxy out of the back yard either. There is rarely a need to bring all 4 kids to the same place at once, and when there is, both cars are required anyway to carry the luggage.

BostonB

colm_mcm wrote: »

The Galaxy is all of 2 inches longer than the S Max. My point is it's still a large MPV and overkill for someone with so few kids.

Faair nuff. I stand corrected, I thought it was bigger tbh.

I don't think anyone suggested the S-Max for the OP. I only mentioned in respect of a MPV not being a decent drive. The C-Max is also a decent drive, being based on the Focus. I dunno what people are hoping for. Most saloons are no Lotus Elan either.