Life, meaning & death for atheists?

Dostoevsky

I've always had an interest in what happens when we die and I'm open to new ideas. In particular, I'm curious how atheists manage to approach the final years of life without fear. What is their comfort, their "certainty", in those years? Even in medieval times local lords who cared little for religion during life tended to make large donations to religious institutions towards the end of their lives "just to cover themselves".

I was thinking of this story lately when remembering Oscar Wilde's deathbed conversion to Catholicism.

What, therefore, lies at the end of life for atheists, and if it's just worms, what is life's meaning for atheists? If life has no meaning, how did we get here/what are we doing here? Big questions, I know, but humour me.:)

Turtwig

42.

Sam Vimes

Dostoevsky wrote: »

What is their comfort, their "certainty", in those years?

Nothing really. I know I'm going to be worm food and I'm ok with it. Eternal life, now that would terrify me

Dostoevsky wrote: »

What, therefore, lies at the end of life for atheists,

Worms. Your consciousness is contained in your brain and when it stops functioning and decomposes, no more consciousness. It'll be just like before I was born, I won't know anything about it

Dostoevsky wrote: »

and if it's just worms, what is life's meaning for atheists?

Why does it have to have a meaning? What is the meaning of a rock?

Dostoevsky wrote: »

If life has no meaning, how did we get here/

No idea

Dostoevsky wrote: »

what are we doing here?

See above. Why does there have to be a reason? To ask why is to assume an intelligence behind it and if we made that assumption we wouldn't be atheists

Turtwig

Sam Vimes wrote: »

To ask why is to assume an intelligence behind it and if we made that assumption we wouldn't be atheists

Actually you can make that assumption. As long as your intelligence isn't defined by a theistic God, you can believe that the universe is a source of intelligence from an entity that ,as of yet, there is no proper definition for.:)

Atheism is a rejection of theistic beliefs. There might still be a God, just not the ones currently being proposed by theists.
Ignosticism is recognition of the current defintions of God not being good enough to warrant discussion or determination.:)

fatmammycat

Pfft, if I need to swallow deity guff to ascribe meaning to my life I am living very poorly indeed. But hark! What? Go for a pint? Watch the footie? Hurrah, meaning for Saturday restored.

Turtwig

Dostoevsky wrote: »

..

I've always had an interest in what happens when we die

Brain begins to shuts down, depending on how slow the death is the more it hallucinates. Then we just become the same as we were before we were born - atoms (sadly my Shakespearian atoms didn't help me much when it came to studying him:(. Did yours help you?).

I'm open to new ideas.

Everyone, including me says that, but are we really?

What is their comfort, their "certainty", in those years?

Given what I have learned of life from humanity's quest of knowledge, the view I have of the world now is far more beautiful than I could possibly have imagined. The "certainty" I have is appreciation and that appreciation will not stop until I die. Life is beautiful.

I was thinking of this story lately when remembering Oscar Wilde's deathbed conversion to Catholicism.

Have been near death on more than one occasion already, still no conversions though.:D

What, therefore, lies at the end of life for atheist

Same thing that was before we were born. Body will decompose and my atoms will scatter elsewhere.

what is life's meaning for atheists?

Live long and prosper.
Look out for others, understand and appreciate as much of the world as possible.

If life has no meaning, how did we get here/what are we doing here?

Life has meaning.
Formation of this universe - Inflation - Solar System - Abiogenesis - Evolution - Common Ancestor - Homo Sapeins - Mammy and Daddy - You,

Sam Vimes

Malty_T wrote: »

Actually you can make that assumption. As long as your intelligence isn't defined by a theistic God, you can believe that the universe is a source of intelligence from an entity that ,as of yet, there is no proper definition for.:)

Atheism is a rejection of theistic beliefs. There might still be a God, just not the ones currently being proposed by theists.
Ignosticism is recognition of the current defintions of God not being good enough to warrant discussion or determination.:)

If someone believes that the universe was created by an intelligent entity, I wouldn't call that person an atheist myself. A deist or ignostic would be a better term for someone like that. An atheist could leave open the possibility I suppose but to actually believe it to be the case............
Smells of religion to me

Turtwig

Sam Vimes wrote: »

If someone believes that the universe was created by an intelligent entity, I wouldn't call that person an atheist myself. A deist or ignostic would be a better term for someone like that. An atheist could leave open the possibility I suppose but to actually believe it to be the case............
Smells of religion to me

Oh yeah wholly agree, just saying that we're still open to the possibility of there being an as of yet undefined intelligence.
Though we admit it is


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....unlikely

Sam Vimes

Indeed. Very :pac:

lugha

Malty_T wrote: »

.... very very very...

Don’t know about all your ‘verys’. (What is the conversion rate for a very and a probability percentage point :P)
I would suggest that all we can say about a possible intelligent designer is that if one exists then he (it?) was ‘forensically aware’ and choose not to enable us to rumble him. This might have been a design decision made in a fleeting moment (or whatever fleeted before time came to be) and as such I don’t see how we can meaningfully determine the probability of an intelligence designer.

With regards to the OP, like many folk on this isle, I was “born” a Catholic and believed it, or semi believed it when I was younger. Oddly, I found the prospect of death terrifying when I believed there was something after death. And I also recall having an overwhelming sense that life would be utterly meaningless if there was no God. I guess the former can be explained by the fear caused by the unknown (being a little doubtful that there is an afterlife is much more troubling than being certain that there isn’t) but I am constantly perplexed as to why I ever had thoughts of life having (or needing) meaning.

bnt

Dostoevsky wrote: »

I was thinking of this story lately when remembering Oscar Wilde's deathbed conversion to Catholicism.

Here's something that I just don't get: what good is a "deathbed conversion"? On your deathbed you're dying - that is, your body is failing, and your brain along with it. Fear can take over, and lead you to think and say things that you never would were you "of sound mind and body". Add the presence of a priest, that vulture in a dog-collar, and nothing sensible can come out of it. How am I supposed to take a "deathbed conversion" as representative of a person I knew in happier times, when that person is already 9/10 of the way out the door?

Turtwig

lugha wrote: »

Don’t know about all your ‘verys’. (What is the conversion rate for a very and a probability percentage point :P).

D'uhhh it's metaphorical not meant to be taken literally.:p
That probability was my own 'faith' in there being an undefined intelligent designer that actually cared about us all.
The 'not caring' one is slightly higher.

Valmont

The great thing about saying farewell to religion is that life can have whatever meaning you want to give it. There is a lot to be said for that freedom in my opinion.

Mickeroo

Does Lichen have a meaning?

Joe1919

Dostoevsky wrote: »

I've always had an interest in what happens when we die and I'm open to new ideas

'. . . death is nothing to us. For all good and evil consists in sensation, but death is deprivation of sensation. And therefore a right understanding that death is nothing to us makes the mortality of life enjoyable, not because it adds to it an infinite span of time, but because it takes away the craving for immortality. For there is nothing terrible in life for the man who has truly comprehended that there is nothing terrible in not living. [Death] does not then concern either the living or the dead, since for the former it is not, and the latter are no more.' Epicurus (341-271 B.C.E. )

http://www.deathreference.com/En-Gh/Epicurus.html

rccaulfield

Meaning? Thats a human idea! Whats the meaning of someone not being born yet- i mean say a fella won't be born till 2012- whats the meaning of that? Means nothing!

eoin5

what is life's meaning for atheists?

In a philosophical examination I rarely get too far without having to change the question.

Robert Anton Wilson wrote:

"Is", "is." "is" — the idiocy of the word haunts me. If it were abolished, human thought might begin to make sense. I don't know what anything "is"; I only know how it seems to me at this moment.

Do you think you can rework the question without an "is" or a similar absolute.

liah

"We atheists do not believe in gods, or angels, or demons, or souls that endure, or a meeting place after all is said and done where more can be said and done and the point of it all revealed. We don’t believe in the possibility of redemption after our lives, but the necessity of compassion in our lives. We believe in people, in their joys and pains, in their good ideas and their wit and wisdom. We believe in human rights and dignity, and we know what it is for those to be trampled on by brutes and vandals. We may believe that the universe is pitilessly indifferent but we know that friends and strangers alike most certainly are not. We despise atrocity, not because a god tells us that it is wrong, but because if not massacre then nothing could be wrong.”
-Unknown

..Sums it up for me, anyway.

seamus

As is so often the case, an xkcd strip can answer the question:


In short, there is nothing more for most atheists. You live, you die, you're wormfood. All that's left of you is whatever writing, pictures and memories you left behind. It doesn't have to mean anything and just because you exist, doesn't mean there was a reason for it.

That's probably the one thought that drives most people towards theist religions - that this isn't just it. Let's face it, if it wasn't for the promise of eternal salvation, what else does religion give you?

cavedave

Malty_T
Oh yeah wholly agree, just saying that we're still open to the possibility of there being an as of yet undefined intelligence.
Though we admit it is

very

....unlikely

What probability would you give that you are running in a simulation? I would say your lists of verys is too conservative, that it is more likely then that that you are the product of someones programming running on their hardware.

Goduznt Xzst

I like my current signature on the matter:

"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being." - Carl Jung

I could elaborate on why that resonates with my opinion but the succinct eloquence would be gone.

Morbert

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I like my current signature on the matter:

"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being." - Carl Jung

I could elaborate on why that resonates with my opinion but the succinct eloquence would be gone.

While I admire the eloquence, it's not really a position consistent with atheism.

Goduznt Xzst

Morbert wrote: »

While I admire the eloquence, it's not really a position consistent with atheism.

please... go on

NothingMan

It does annoy me when people think that because i'm atheist that I don't appreciate the world. I still find the world/universe amazing, beautiful and extremely intersting. I just don't think it was created in 6 days by Q.

As for when I die I want a natural burial. No coffin or clothes just harvest my organs if they're any good, wrap me in linen and put me in the ground. In that way I get my eternal life. Not in a conscious way, but like that cartoon strip pointed out, I may be gone but my pieces remain to change and live on forever. Just because I won't be conscious to recognise what's happening doesn't make it any less amazing for me.

20goto10

The meaning of life is so obvious its even in the word. The purpose of life is to live. When you believe that this life is all you get then you tend to try and make the most of it. I know so many people who live their lives as if it doesn't matter because there is a better life waiting for them when they die. I feel so sorry for them.

CerebralCortex

seamus wrote: »

....That's probably the one thought that drives most people towards theist religions - that this isn't just it....

A pity that they aren't more driven towards improving the human condition but you can hardly blame people who have no access to things like technology and education. But with technology and education in its applications I think more people will realise that is up to use to create meaning and hopefully religious thinking will die.

talkingdog

You are born. You exist.
You die. You don't exist anymore.

CerebralCortex wrote: »

A pity that they aren't more driven towards improving the human condition

Sorry to highlight this for a different reason. I have a young niece (2nd class) who is starting to be indoctinated in the lies and BS. I wish that all schools could scrap this sh1te and teach the kids about astronomy instead, and show then that there are genuine answers out there.

CerebralCortex

talkingdog wrote: »

Sorry to highlight this for a different reason. I have a young niece (2nd class) who is starting to be indoctinated in the lies and BS. I wish that all schools could scrap this sh1te and teach the kids about astronomy instead, and show then that there are genuine answers out there.

Indeed everything about the existence of the physical human is amenable to science yet people would rather make sh!t up.

Morbert

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

please... go on

If we accept atheism, then we must also accept that humans are ultimately an inadvertent experiment. We are entirely unintentional, with no purpose at all.

In a different sense, it can be said that we give ourselves purpose subjectively, but that's quite different to the objective purpose many people are searching for.

Flamed Diving

Yet another one of those threads, topped off the classic "absentee OP".

talkingdog

Morbert wrote: »

If we accept atheism, then we must also accept that humans are ultimately an inadvertent experiment. We are entirely unintentional, with no purpose at all.

In a different sense, it can be said that we give ourselves purpose subjectively, but that's quite different to the objective purpose many people are searching for.

Exactly, although I would remove the word experiment.

humans are ultimately inadvertent

There is no purpose to our existence. The fact is that we are here because a very large star blew up approx 5+ billion years ago, formed a solar system, which led to a chain of random events to lead us to this point.

Why would anyone need any other explanation.

Sam Vimes

talkingdog wrote: »

Why would anyone need any other explanation.

Because it doesn't make them feel special?

talkingdog

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Because it doesn't make them feel special?

Well boo hoo.

Its time for you to all grow up.

liamw

talkingdog wrote: »

Well boo hoo.

Its time for you to all grow up.

lol, I like you talkingdog