Best tube amp for around €700?

McMalley

As the title says, probably been asked about a million times but I thought I'd ask again anyway. I play mainly rock, looking for something along the line of AC/DC, Lizzy, Fighting With Wire, Biffy etc etc. And if you know of any second hand amps for sale, please throw in a link.

Karl Hungus

Orange Rocker 30, should be able to get one used for that price no problem.

Sandvich

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Orange Rocker 30, should be able to get one used for that price no problem.

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=134190&cat=all

This one went for 650.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Sandvich wrote: »

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=134190&cat=all

This one went for 650.

my band mate bought it! Very good amp. sounds amazing.

Sandvich

Lylah Ambitious Gunslinger wrote: »

my band mate bought it! Very good amp. sounds amazing.

Friend has one, agreed, it sounds pretty good. Was surprised how well it did more trebley tones as I always thought Oranges were dark for british voiced amps.

af_thefragile

I like the Fender Hot Rod amp. Its brilliant for bluesy stuff.

But for what you wanna play, i think the Orange amp is perfect. Orange amps have a very distinctive and a great rock tone.

Kenny_D

+1 for the rocker. That one on adverts was mine. Excellent amp for the music you listed

McMalley

Thanks for the advice everyone. Would like to try one out but it seems X Music have stopped selling them. Does anywhere else stock them?

Karl Hungus

I think Musicmaker stock them, but haven't been there in a while.

tubedude

Try digital village/dolphin....
+1 on the rocker 30

Kenny_D

Xmusic had one in stock last week I think and its still on their website:

http://www.xmusic.ie/product.php?productid=23717&cat=0&page=1

Tom Ghostwood

You'd pick up a Sovtek Mig 100 for around 500e second hand. Very rare & a total beast of an amp.

feylya

The Randall RG-50TC is a damn fine amp actually:

http://www.thomann.de/ie/randall_rg50_tc.htm

Throw in some higher quality tubes and maybe a speaker upgrade and you have a savage little amp.

dermo909

I agree with the guys that recommend Orange amps. I only have a TT but its awesome but maybe a little lacking in the higher gain ranges.
Try out Marshall amps too. For 700 you could defo pick up a second hand tsl/dsl combo which will serve you very well indeed.
Are you looking for a valve amp or will ss do?

Iron Hide

Got a Marshall JCM2000 DSL used for E480 last year, beast of a thing.. Tis a 40 watt valve amp louder than most 100watt solid states...

dermo909

I found this on thomann:
http://www.thomann.de/ie/prod_cbundle_383.html?gk=gieag4&cbcid=2415&art=106301

Peavey valveking head and 4x12 for 666 euro. The other guitarist in my band uses one and its very good for the money. Dont forget to get a speaker cable! The footswitch might be handy too and it'll all add up to around 700.

McMalley

I wouldn't go with a SS amp. Not much around in terms of second hand Orange Rockers, but I have seen some Marshall TSL heads and combos about. Not mad about the stacks for convenience sake but if it was a good deal I'd consider it.

McMalley

Thoughts on this?

Dr. Feelgood

I own a Marshall DSL 401 tube amp. Cost me around 800 euro new a few years ago. I highly recommend you try it out, it would suit your needs by the sounds of it.

novarock

For €700 I would definitely stick to scanning the second hand market, you mentioned AC/DC, Lizzy, Fighting With Wire, Biffy etc etc..

AC/DC use marshalls, Biffy's big sound are marshalls at the moment JTM45's or something (Mesa's last year) Lizzy as far as I am aware were marshall, Fighting with Wire the last time I saw them had an Orange.

I had a similar list of influences when buying an amp before, I found a second hand JCM 900 combo for 600 euro on the buy and sell...

Eoin Madsen

JCM900 and JCM2000 Marshalls are very different to older Marshalls like the JTM45, Plexi 50/100, or JCM800. I wouldn't be a huge fan of the modern Marshalls based on the ones I've recorded or played. The older ones seem to be a lot more versatile, despite not having as many knobs.

novarock

the JCM i have is from 1994, I wouldnt go as far as to call it one of the "modern" marshalls, unfortunately it was jim marshalls experiment and attempt to put some known player mod's from the 800 into one of his own amps. People give out about the clipping diodes, 800's are better blah blah, but I had a budget like the OP, and wanted something I really liked the sound of for my money. Also I wasnt suggesting that he buy a 900, im just using it as an example of buying second hand and saving a few euro...

this isnt a debate about marshall quality, its a question of what to buy for under 700 quid.

Eoin Madsen

novarock wrote: »

the JCM i have is from 1994, I wouldnt go as far as to call it one of the "modern" marshalls,

It is a modern Marshall, in that the circuits in those amps differ significantly from a JCM800 and its predecessors. Aside from clipping diodes there are also some transisitor components which are not found in earlier amps. An interesting in-between stage amp is the 2555 Jubilee in the mid-late 80s, which was like a JCM800 with clipping diodes and a few other mods.

novarock wrote: »

this isnt a debate about marshall quality, its a question of what to buy for under 700 quid.

Indeed. I was just observing that there's a significant difference between the Marshall sound of the 70s and 80s and the sound from the late 80s to date. Preference is obviously subjective, but that there is a difference is hardly so. A JTM45 sounds nothing like a JCM2000, which seems worth pointing out.

darrenw5094

On the subject of Marshalls.....the best recent combo was probably the 30th Anniversary model. 3 channels, clean based on JTM45, crunch based on JCM800 and a high gain channel. I've seen them go on adverts for under your price range. Days ago, i picked up a second hand Marshall Plexi 1987x for €500.

Eoin Madsen

darrenw5094 wrote: »

Days ago, i picked up a second hand Marshall Plexi 1987x for €500.

Nice.

Sergio

McMalley wrote: »

Thoughts on this?

Ive got a Marshall DSL 401 combo forsale mate.you can see the link in my signature.

cheers:)

darrenw5094

Sounds like a good deal there to me. The man is even willing to accept a reasonable offer. So all valve Marshall for under 500 nicker.....

Eoin Madsen

Hmm, Marshall valve amp, yes. Marshall "all-valve" amp, not so much. Here's a picture which shows why:

http://www.schematicheaven.com/marshallamps/jcm2000_40w_dsl401.pdf

The circles with three connections are transistors. The little triangles with the lines at the end are diodes. And the big triangles are opamps. :pac:

I'm not knocking the amp (I don't think I've even used that particular model), I'm just sick of hearing JCM2000s described as all-valve. They could only possibly qualify under Marshall's definition of all-valve.

Paolo_M

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

Hmm, Marshall valve amp, yes. Marshall "all-valve" amp, not so much. Here's a picture which shows why:

http://www.schematicheaven.com/marshallamps/jcm2000_40w_dsl401.pdf

The circles with three connections are transistors. The little triangles with the lines at the end are diodes. And the big triangles are opamps. :pac:

I'm not knocking the amp (I don't think I've even used that particular model), I'm just sick of hearing JCM2000s described as all-valve. They could only possibly qualify under Marshall's definition of all-valve.

In fairness to Marshall their definition of all valve is where signal passes within the tone creation circuitry. The transistors are use for switching applications, the diodes are doing rectification, clamping and making the relays behave themselves and the opamps are just driving the reverb tray and FX Loop if present.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the DSL/TSL range by any means, but I'd be more concerned with the shockingly poor transformers, flimsy PCB, crappy ribbon cables with even crappier molex connectors, poor general construction and circuit layout and manufacturing errors than a couple of bits of silicon.
I would be interested in hearing the amp, with the same circtuitry, built without manufacturing cost as the mainly driver though.

Eoin Madsen

Paolo_M wrote: »

In fairness to Marshall their definition of all valve is where signal passes within the tone creation circuitry.

The usual definition people use is where the signal doesn't pass through any semiconductors. :P The rectifier diodes in the power supply get a pass, but everything else fails the all-valve test. I'm not saying it's even important whether an amp is all-valve or not, just that these amps aren't by the commonly accepted definition. I was trying to correct the misleading claim without getting into another epic modern-Marshall bashing session.

Paolo_M wrote: »

I would be interested in hearing the amp, with the same circtuitry, built without manufacturing cost as the mainly driver though.

I've often wondered alright. The newer designs could be great, just spoiled by the company's tendency to cheap out.

darrenw5094

Paolo_M wrote: »

In fairness to Marshall their definition of all valve is where signal passes within the tone creation circuitry. The transistors are use for switching applications, the diodes are doing rectification, clamping and making the relays behave themselves and the opamps are just driving the reverb tray and FX Loop if present.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the DSL/TSL range by any means, but I'd be more concerned with the shockingly poor transformers, flimsy PCB, crappy ribbon cables with even crappier molex connectors, poor general construction and circuit layout and manufacturing errors than a couple of bits of silicon.
I would be interested in hearing the amp, with the same circtuitry, built without manufacturing cost as the mainly driver though.

Are the latest re-issues as bad as them or was the DSL/TSL poor workmanship?

Eoin Madsen

The general consensus over on the amp forums (Plexi Palace, Metroamp) last I checked was that the latest reissues are the best reissues but they still don't come close to standing up to the originals or any of the good quality clones.

Last time I was over on Metroamp, there was really interesting stickied thread over detailing each stage of replacing parts of a recent "Handwired" Reissue 1959 with parts he puts into his clones (sozo capacitors, heyboer/mercury magnetics transformers etc.). It includes sound samples.

darrenw5094

Granger amps sound savage too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c67EW13Hspk

Paolo_M

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

The usual definition people use is where the signal doesn't pass through any semiconductors. :P The rectifier diodes in the power supply get a pass, but everything else fails the all-valve test.

That's debatable. The only signal flowing through silicon in the DSL / TSL series is in the reverb and FX Loops. IMO this is a good thing as it maintains the purity of the signal from the otherwise all valve stages.
The transistors used are purely replacing physical switches or relays. They're used because they're faster and less noisy for things like mutes.
The diodes used are; zeners as voltage regulators for the SS circuitry, standard diodes snubbing the coil of the relays that are present and some LEDs for channel status indication. All of these functions could (and were in the past) implemented with diode and other types of valves. No signal flows through them though.

By my definition, assuming the reverb or FX Loop isn't being used, both the DSL and TSL are all valve.
I would also recommend that the DSL or TSL not be used with their reverb or FX Loop as both are complete crap!!

Are the latest re-issues as bad as them or was the DSL/TSL poor workmanship?

Never been inside one so I can;t comment directly, but like Eoin said the reviews are good.
Seems like Marshall may have learned from the back-lash against the JCM2,000, which will be a good thing all around.

McMalley

Ok folks, after your little technical discussion, back to the reason for my original post. With all of your knowledge, can you agree, or at least try to recommend a tube amp for around 700?

Paolo_M

McMalley wrote: »

Ok folks, after your little technical discussion, back to the reason for my original post. With all of your knowledge, can you agree, or at least try to recommend a tube amp for around 700?

My advice is to try and pick a Tiny Terror and a decent 2X12 with some nice speakers like a V30 and a G30H or maybe G25M.

I would also advise not basing your decision to spend €700 on an amp on the opinions of random people on the internet.
You really need to get down to decent, well stocked store and spend a few hours trying things out and see what you like.

McMalley

I'm not looking for a definitive answer as such, no one is gonna agree on one amp. I'm more looking for guidance i.e. what to look at and what to avoid, thus narrowing my search. And by no means was I going to buy an amp based on a recommendation without trying it. That being said, no one here or that I have spoken to has faulted the Orange range.

Eoin Madsen

If you're looking at the Orange Tiny Terror, I'd also try out an Vox AC15. They both have EL84 based powerstages, and are in the same price range.

I wish I could fault the Orange just to be contrary, but I have no strong feelings about Orange amps in general. I should go out and play some myself. :pac:

Eoin Madsen

Have a look on DV247.com btw. The sterling is quite weak at the moment so you might do well out of it once you know what you want.

Karl Hungus

I'd still highly recommend the Orange Rocker 30 McMalley, it's really the best amp you can get for the money, will suit the style of music you're playing perfectly, and they're just extremely solid amps. The Tiny Terror is pretty good as well, but really doesn't compare to the Rocker.

If you take a look here, it's going new for £725, which works out at €802. As Eoin says, the sterling is very weak at the moment, so if you wanted to stretch your budget a little, you could go a long way.

Have you had a chance to look in Music Maker and see if they had a Rocker 30 to try out?

Sergio

McMalley wrote: »

Ok folks, after your little technical discussion, back to the reason for my original post. With all of your knowledge, can you agree, or at least try to recommend a tube amp for around 700?

Ive got a Marshall DSL 401 combo forsale mate at the moment.Its in great condition and was never gigged.
Pm me for any more details.Im based in corkcity.:)

busttropical

you can get a hot rod deville 410 for about that much if you look hard... Biffy uses one... Umm bedouin soundclash, state radio use one. They are loud as S HI T!

nicknackgtb

Check out the Marshall Haze 40w, its around the 640 mark brand new, if your looking for your quality Marshall tone, this could be your answer!!

-Chris-

busttropical wrote: »

you can get a hot rod deville 410 for about that much if you look hard... Biffy uses one... Umm bedouin soundclash, state radio use one. They are loud as S HI T!

I'd be hesitant to buy a Deville 410 unless you really need it - they're pretty loud and very heavy, so unless you're playing very big stages you'll never get the best from one.